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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Judd V Hodge
- Thread starter ctacp
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- Apr 3, 2006
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This thread makes me laugh. Judd is better than Hodge because he had 34 possies to 16 on Saturday....
No, Judd was better than Hodge because he was, better than Hodge. Your next comment seems to indicate you agree?
- Mar 15, 2006
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Go and trawl argumentativeforthesakeofit.com, Doris. You are boring.
From Chewy's OP:
- Apr 3, 2006
- 34,627
- 13,373
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Hey Chewy's pet, how about you mind your own business?
- Banned
- #80
My opinions are heavily biased by team loyalty?
It's all just opinion, you goose. Yiou ask "What have you been smoking?" because you are a biased Blues fan.
Everyone is biased depending on their preferences. Some people think Judd is the ants pants because they like his style. Other people think Hodge is better - not just Hawk fans, probably a minority of people, but their opinions are no less valid. You can't prove one is better. It's opinion. Every panel show I've ever listened to, 2/3 go for Judd and 1/3 opt for Hodge. It's never unanimous.
My informed contributions to the thread about their injuries are factual.
Cousins won the Brownlow in 2005 narrowly from Kerr. He also won the MVP. It wasn't Judd's best season
Judd has won a swag of awards, but he will always be a magnet for those individual accolades. His 2005 Norm Smith Medal win was dodgy. So was his Brownlow Medal in 2004. No way was he the competition's best player in 2004, just the umpy's favourite. Tredrea and Riewoldt were better.
I reckon Judd was a bit lucky to be named All-Australian in 2008. He was great in the packs at getting his hands on the ball, but he didn't do a whole lot with it. He reads the play well but he wasn't as damaging as what we've seen in the past. Slower. He couldn't shake tackes or run away (both of which were his main weapons.) I thought Sam Mitchell and Brett Kirk were better inside players in 2008. Mitchell's handballing was far more creative than Judd's. Kirk was far better defensively. Brett Deledio was probably a more damaging midfielder in 2008 than Judd.
I think you Carlton folks are kidding yourselves a bit. You think he's the same player he was for West Coast, but he's not even close. Judd's disposal can be very iffy. When he finds space, he is good, but he doesn't seem to bbreak away from packs with the ball as often as he used to.
Check out that last piece of his play he was involved in against Hawthorn. He gathered the ball at half forward with his back to goal and ran towards the 50m line to evade the Hawthorn tackler. His teammate at CHF ran past for the handball and was wide open... a goal beckoned... Judd's dodgy left-handed handball missed the target and landed at his team-mate's feet. The chance was lost. His mistake was as bad as Fev's costly miss a few moments later. Tim Lane commented, "He missed the target. Even the great Judd couldn't make that one happen..."
As though it was a difficult piece of play...
People have their rose coloured glasses on with Juddy. He "looks" so good doing what he does, they overlook his weaknesses. Some of his disposals are pretty shit and many of possessions are pretty ordinary. He is a ball magnet. His run and carry is not what it was, but still pretty good. He is great at following up the next phase of play for a handball receive in the clear. He is an adequate footpasser (for some reason, people jizz their pants when he completes a routine pass to Fev) He is very strong over the ball in the packs, reads the ball well off hands and very hard to tackle. Under pressure, he tends to handball to stationary targets. He is an okay tackler, but not great. His defence is not as good as other midfielders, more of attacking weapon. The tackling stats merely reflect the position he plays, not his tackling effectiveness. His overhead marking, spoiling and contesting is non-existent (dodgy shoulders?)
I think he is a champion, but I don't think he is quite as good as the Carlton fans believe he is. If Judd could mark and kick like Hodge then he'd be as good as the hype.
I also think Carlton fans are a joke the way they adopt mercenaries like Diesel Williams and Chris Judd as their favourite sons. It doesn't matter how much you paid them, Williams and Judd played their best football for Sydney and West Coast.
- Banned
- #81
No, Mr Lizard is right. Your constant needling is boring.
You never really want to get into debate about footy. It's all just semantics with you - chopping this bit from one of my posts and that bit from another of my posts.
You think you are really clever or witty or something. But I find your act pretty tiresome. More often than not, it's a case of you misunderstanding my point or miscontrueing something I've written. To respond to you is to get side-tracked, or to explain myself twice over.
I'm glad you have fun though. That's the main thing.
I wasn't even arguing that Hodge was better Judd on the weekend. Just pointing out that Judd was beaten by his opponent.
- Mar 15, 2006
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I'm reading a thread about Judd v Hodge, gimp. That is my business. absfab doesn't add much to it with his dyslexic contribution, and neither do you. Why did you even post in this thread?
- Apr 3, 2006
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You set up a straw man about stats, then went on to make a host of excuses. I just wanted to know what you really thought, because you were very careful not to say it outright.
- Apr 3, 2006
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you mad?
Had we drafted Judd in 2001 he would have got the 6 year itch and left us in the lurch like he did with WCE - possibly even earlier as we were nowhere near as successful as the E-girls. Money hungry flog.
- Mar 15, 2006
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That's right, he was very careful.
This was deftly hidden in between his analysis of their 2008 seasons, and his summation of their careers. How very careful. How devious. How thankful we are that you found him out and called him on it.
How clever you are!
absfab
Premiership Player
- Mar 8, 2009
- 3,128
- 83
- AFL Club
- Carlton
My opinions are heavily biased by team loyalty?
It's all just opinion, you goose. Yiou ask "What have you been smoking?" because you are a biased Blues fan.
Everyone is biased depending on their preferences. Some people think Judd is the ants pants because they like his style. Other people think Hodge is better - not just Hawk fans, probably a minority of people, but their opinions are no less valid. You can't prove one is better. It's opinion. Every panel show I've ever listened to, 2/3 go for Judd and 1/3 opt for Hodge. It's never unanimous.
No, dropkick. I ask what have you been smoking because only Dork supporters and the Wet Toast tragics who are still crying bitter tears coz they had to put the Judd doll they used to hump themselves to sleep with in the trash would consider comparing the two. Because it is such a ridiculous comparison.
20 years from now footy fans will be debating whether Judd or Gablett was the best player of his generation. With the exception of rusted on Hawthorn fans lining up for their second hip replacement nobody will even remember who this Hodge fella was.
- Banned
- #88
I'm arguing with a 10yo
If, in 20 years time, someone starts a "Judd vs Ablett" thread
o) I will be sure to weigh into the thread and tell people that Ablett uses the ball far better then Judd (so much better, it's a ridiculous comparison) and that Ablett was a much better chaser than Judd and Gazza could also mark a football.When was the last time the great Chris Judd put his body on the line in a marking contest?
God this weak as piss argument ALWAYS comes up during the Judd debate, and it's a load of crap.
Who would you go to if you had the choice ???
a) A team at the bottom of the ladder, which you once did support, but is now a shawod of it's former self. CONSTANT offield problems/talk of club merger. Crappy supporter base because their "fans" decide to buy MCC memberships instead of supporting "their" club. a team at the BEGINNING of a rebuild which still had a number of older players that they relied on. Crappy training facilities. Turmoil over board members.....................
b) A side which is more financially stable but has a reputation of imploding at the drop of a hat, and that has members so feral they will attack their own players after a couple of bad performances and dump truckloads of chicken crap at the club ........................
c) A team with GREAT facilities, who would have thrown a check book at him but did not have the picks required to get a deal done and that would not have traded the players required to get him there
d) A club towards the end of a rebuild, which has become financially stable, stable board, improving facilites which will be up there with the best in the league, had a HEAP of room in their salary cap due to having a VERY young list and had the draft picks/players to trade for him.
God if Judd was ONLY after cash and success then he would have gone to the Pies. They have better facilites (ATM anyway), would have given him the 1 mill a year (they were still going to offer it to J. Brown last year), were further along in their development (more instant success). If he REALLY wanted to go to the best option available he would have said "screw the WCE", nominated the Pies as his ONLY option and forced the WCE to take a worse deal than what they got from Carlton otherwise he would have entered the PSD, put 2 mill on his head and gone to Carlton for nothing.
As for Melbourne getting Judd, they would be SCREWED now if they picked him up. Even going by base rates he would be on whay, +$750k a year. Considering that the Demons had to trim their TPP to 92.5% to get financial aid from the AFL last year then they would have lost more senior/up and coming players they what they already did + the players lost to get the trade done ...............
absfab
Premiership Player
- Mar 8, 2009
- 3,128
- 83
- AFL Club
- Carlton
I'm arguing with a 10yo
And doing a p!ss poor job of it.
Nah. He's just top ten in total disposals and contested possessions; and second in centre clearances and inside 50s. Pretty damaging combination, and very rare.
WAAAAAY to valuable to use as a floating defender 20 metres behind the zone. Lesser players fill that role.
- Banned
- #92
Just answer the question, knob.
It has nothing to do with statistics or the position Judd plays. Nearly all midfielders are occasionally required to put their body on the line and make a spoil, or contest a mark, whether it's a slow, fat dwarf like Sam Mitchell or a skinny, soft, skillful player like Aaron Davey.
When was the last time Judd knew it was his turn to go?
Not for the reigning premiers.
Hodge won a premiership for Hawthorn, playing such a role.
there wouldnt be many teams in the comp that wouldnt love hodge playin the loose man in defence hes a very good player. as for comparing them u cant compare an elite midfielder with an elite backman. chewy how can u call judd soft wen usually atleast half of his possetions are contested?
- Banned
- #94
Judd is an elite midfielder.Pidge said:
Hodge is an elite footballer wherever he plays. He has been a permanent fixture in Hawthorn's defence since August 2008 because that's where he has been needed.
But it's wrong to pigeon-hole him as a backman.
Pidge said:
I didn't say Judd was soft. I just asked a simple question.
When was the last time Judd put his body on the line in a marking contest?
Hey *******, it's obvious his shoulders are not 100%, so he managed it my NOT going up for a lot of marking contests ...............
Judd can't mark above his head, Hodge can't run more than 100 meters without falling over his man boobs, they both play within their limits ............
Hodge is in fact so elite he was beaten by Carrazzo on the weekend, a Geelong rookie reject!
Anyone know if Judda$ can take an overhead mark or play a defenders role?
Anyone?
Anyone?
- Banned
- #98
Not going up for a lot of marking contests?
Try not going up for ANY marking contests.
Not one...
A strange limitation for someone who is considered by some to be in the top handful of footballers in the AFL.
You could say Judd is less than complete. It's sad, but true.
Hodge battles to stay trim because he is limited in how much running he can do. His Osteitis Pubis is something which has to be managed. This is the main reason why he doesn't train himself up as an endurance runner and accumulate Brownlow votes like Ablett, Black or Judd.
You *******....
It's a shame in some ways, but because Hodge is the best pure footballer in the AFL, he is still able to perform at an elite level.
- Banned
- #99
What did Carrazzo do? He kicked 1 goal and had 19 mostly useless possessions, not all of them while playing on Hodge.
Hodge was tagged (in defence) but still had 16 possessions. This is a better effort than getting tagged in the midfield and having 16 touches. I thought he did a lot of good things which didn't didn't show up on the stats sheet... You know... shepherds, good spoils, tap-ons to team mates in good position, intercepts, saving goals, that type of thing.
All in all, he was a calming influence and held our (undermanned) defence together. Not too bad for a bloke who is still finding his form and fitness.
When Judd was at his best in the first half, Carlton had 24 clearances to Hawthorn's 13.
In the second quarter Carlton had something like NINETEEN inside 50's to SIX
Despite Carlton's "dominance", Hawthorn's defence held firm in the 2nd quarter, acted as a brick wall and both teams scored 4 goals apiece. Hawthorn went into the main break with the lead!
The great Juddy gets 34 possessions, but in the end it amounts to nought because of our field marshall in defence, the great Luke Hodge, who gets in the way, although beaten by Andrew "I kicked 1 goal" Carrazzo...
It's also a shame that Judd lowered his colours to Brad Sewell, former rookie from Box Hill, overlooked in the National Draft, rejected by Hawthorn and Melbourne, but stayed on our list and was clearly the most influential midfielder on the ground and a dominant force in the 2nd half.
My opinions are heavily biased by team loyalty?
It's all just opinion, you goose. Yiou ask "What have you been smoking?" because you are a biased Blues fan.
Everyone is biased depending on their preferences. Some people think Judd is the ants pants because they like his style. Other people think Hodge is better - not just Hawk fans, probably a minority of people, but their opinions are no less valid. You can't prove one is better. It's opinion. Every panel show I've ever listened to, 2/3 go for Judd and 1/3 opt for Hodge. It's never unanimous.
My informed contributions to the thread about their injuries are factual.
Cousins won the Brownlow in 2005 narrowly from Kerr. He also won the MVP. It wasn't Judd's best season
Judd has won a swag of awards, but he will always be a magnet for those individual accolades. His 2005 Norm Smith Medal win was dodgy. So was his Brownlow Medal in 2004. No way was he the competition's best player in 2004, just the umpy's favourite. Tredrea and Riewoldt were better.
I reckon Judd was a bit lucky to be named All-Australian in 2008. He was great in the packs at getting his hands on the ball, but he didn't do a whole lot with it. He reads the play well but he wasn't as damaging as what we've seen in the past. Slower. He couldn't shake tackes or run away (both of which were his main weapons.) I thought Sam Mitchell and Brett Kirk were better inside players in 2008. Mitchell's handballing was far more creative than Judd's. Kirk was far better defensively. Brett Deledio was probably a more damaging midfielder in 2008 than Judd.
I think you Carlton folks are kidding yourselves a bit. You think he's the same player he was for West Coast, but he's not even close. Judd's disposal can be very iffy. When he finds space, he is good, but he doesn't seem to bbreak away from packs with the ball as often as he used to.
Check out that last piece of his play he was involved in against Hawthorn. He gathered the ball at half forward with his back to goal and ran towards the 50m line to evade the Hawthorn tackler. His teammate at CHF ran past for the handball and was wide open... a goal beckoned... Judd's dodgy left-handed handball missed the target and landed at his team-mate's feet. The chance was lost. His mistake was as bad as Fev's costly miss a few moments later. Tim Lane commented, "He missed the target. Even the great Judd couldn't make that one happen..."
As though it was a difficult piece of play...
People have their rose coloured glasses on with Juddy. He "looks" so good doing what he does, they overlook his weaknesses. Some of his disposals are pretty shit and many of possessions are pretty ordinary. He is a ball magnet. His run and carry is not what it was, but still pretty good. He is great at following up the next phase of play for a handball receive in the clear. He is an adequate footpasser (for some reason, people jizz their pants when he completes a routine pass to Fev) He is very strong over the ball in the packs, reads the ball well off hands and very hard to tackle. Under pressure, he tends to handball to stationary targets. He is an okay tackler, but not great. His defence is not as good as other midfielders, more of attacking weapon. The tackling stats merely reflect the position he plays, not his tackling effectiveness. His overhead marking, spoiling and contesting is non-existent (dodgy shoulders?)
I think he is a champion, but I don't think he is quite as good as the Carlton fans believe he is. If Judd could mark and kick like Hodge then he'd be as good as the hype.
I also think Carlton fans are a joke the way they adopt mercenaries like Diesel Williams and Chris Judd as their favourite sons. It doesn't matter how much you paid them, Williams and Judd played their best football for Sydney and West Coast.
Chewy you make some valid points, however, you are miles off on others.
Not sure how old you are, but i watched Diesel Williams for the nearly all of his career. If you think he wasn't at his peak in 1993 & 1994 then you are off with the pixies. He romped it in the Brownlow in '94 (polled 30 votes) and should have won in '93. Easily his best two seasons of footy. Most of his career in Sydney was played in very average sides as well.
As for your "adopt" mercenaries line, correct me if i'm wrong but both Williams and Judd were acquired via trades in which Carlton had to give up quite a bit in return. They also both wanted to return to their home state. Do you refer to Trent Croad as a mercenary also? Do you realise that every player in the AFL gets paid $$ to play, they hardly do it for free and the love of the jumper trust me.
Oh and please do not mention Brett Deledio and Chris Judd in the same sentence again. Deledio is a downhill skiier who played a couple of good games during the junk end of the season when Richmond had zero chance of making finals.
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