Current Julie Cutler - Murder - 1988 - Cottesloe WA *To the Coroner

[BFew]

Inquest into the Suspected death of Julie CUTLER

https://www.coronerscourt.wa.gov.au/_files/Inquest_2023/CUTLER, Julie Leanne.pdf (49 pages)
'[2023] WACOR 19
JURISDICTION : CORONER'S COURT OF WESTERN AUSTRALIA
ACT : CORONERS ACT 1996
CORONER : SARAH HELEN LINTON, DEPUTY STATE CORONER HEARD :
3 - 4 NOVEMBER 2022 DELIVERED : 6 APRIL 2023
FILE NO/S : CORC 830 of 2019
DECEASED : CUTLER, JULIE LEANNE'

 

[theartofwar]

Not sure what your problem is but that’s what the data shows.

Rossmo predicted that the southern suburbs of Perth is where SK lives.

Let’s see if Rossmo was right.

*lived.

The only problem is that you won't say what data (victims) you have input to arrive at that conclusion.

Once the data set is run it also doesn't say where they live(d)... it gives percentages/probability for a number of suburbs, not just one definitive answer.

 

[SmartAlec]

But its filled with false data. Are you stating that Julie Cutler was murdered by the person currently charged? If he is not then the data is incorrect. Its logical

Rubbish. Not saying anything about anybody you are alluding to. Except to say JC was included with the Rossmo set.

 

[GreyCrow]

Rubbish. Not saying anything about anybody you are alluding to. Except to say JC was included with the Rossmo set.

Then it is incorrect. But lets wait and see

 

[theartofwar]

Thats what the data shows.

Rossmo predicted that the southern suburbs of Perth is where SK lives.

Could be more specific - but the data is now with the authorities and other (very) interested parties to see if they draw the same conclusions.

Let’s see if Rossmo was right.

Mmmm i'm sure they have filed it away in their most important trash can.

 

[SmartAlec]

Mmmm i'm sure they have filed it away in their most important trash can.

Have experienced that the military tend to be meticulous with their record keeping, if they want to be.

Aids investigations.

 

[theartofwar]

Have experienced that the military tend to be meticulous with their record keeping, if they want to be.

Aids investigations.

Do you have a record of the assumptions you made when you ran the Rossmo profile?

Here below are some examples of assumptions made when running it on the Zodiac Killer (they used four attacks).

I fail to see how your geographic profile can be accurate when you include crimes that are not linked. If they are indeed linked, then they must have DNA/fingerprint etc (some sort of definitive proof) and killer will be brought undone by familial DNA.

So what exactly is the purpose of what you are doing?



"Assumptions
The geographic profile is based on certain assumptions which, if violated, might affect theaccuracy of its results. The following assumptions have been made for the present analysis:
•The linkage analysis for the crime series is accurate and reasonably complete (i.e., thesame offender committed the linked crimes, and there are not a significant number of unlinked crimes that should be part of the series).
•The offender is a local hunter, not a poacher (i.e., the offender is not commuting into thearea to commit the crimes).
•The offender’s search base has not changed during the time period of the crime series(i.e., the offender has not moved).The Zodiac murders occurred 38 years ago."

 

[BlueE]

That’s disappointing.

He’s one of a very select few that made any sense.

Shame the Rossmo data was deleted.

It determines where serial killers live.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rossmo's_formula

As far as the CSK went Rossimo's geographic mapping fails on the basic assumption.

•The offender is a local hunter, not a poacher (i.e., the offender is not commuting into the area to commit the crimes).

This may have been correct for the Huntingdale indecent assault but not for any of the others. A big fail for Rossimo in this case.

However there are mapping murder theories that match the maps.

 

[Kurve]

As far as the CSK went Rossimo's geographic mapping fails on the basic assumption.

•The offender is a local hunter, not a poacher (i.e., the offender is not commuting into the area to commit the crimes).

This may have been correct for the Huntingdale indecent assault but not for any of the others. A big fail for Rossimo in this case.

However there are mapping murder theories that match the maps.

It might work if Claremont was his anchor point. If he was the one that moved out of the house in Fountain Way and he had a unit/flat or access to one in or close to Claremont.

Serial murderers aren't just killing people, from my reading they're committing crime across the board. He might have been a bit 'crookier' than has been realised when he was active and a lot of them with or without the marital home, will have open access to or maintain another address.

 

[BlueE]

It might work if Claremont was his anchor point. If he was the one that moved out of the house in Fountain Way and he had a unit/flat or access to one in or close to Claremont.

Serial murderers aren't just killing people, from my reading they're committing crime across the board. He might have been a bit 'crookier' than has been realised when he was active and a lot of them with or without the marital home, will have open access to or maintain another address.

It supposed to identify where an offender lives. So if BRE lived in or close to Claremont it would probably work. Did he? Following Rossimo's theory adds the problem in linking his Huntingdale attack with the Claremont attacks.

It's interesting and led to development and further theories by others. A similar tracking system is used in footy to track players.

You would be correct in guessing this is a mapping a player on the half back line.

Applied to the CSK a possible map of known abductions (including JC) would look a bit like this, but the accused (living in Huntingdale) would be a half forward and not half back. So no help in predicting his location.

 

[Kurve]

It supposed to identify where an offender lives. So if BRE lived in or close to Claremont it would probably work. Did he? Following Rossimo's theory adds the problem in linking his Huntingdale attack with the Claremont attacks.

It's interesting and led to development and further theories by others. A similar tracking system is used in footy to track players.

You would be correct in guessing this is a mapping a player on the half back line.

Applied to the CSK a possible map of known abductions (including JC) would look a bit like this, but the accused (living in Huntingdale) would be a half forward and not half back. So no help in predicting his location.
View attachment 497928

Cutler and the Huntingdale attack were in 1988, Huntingdale confirmed CSK but true to the theory early offending is close to home. The next cluster of only four apparently conclusively linked including Karrakatta were seven and eight years later. In that time you could expect an offender to have dragged anchor anyway.

Any attempt at geo profiling worth a shot but agree, likely to have been useless here imo. If he talks at all, any scrap might offer insight as to how he chose the dump sites and there may be a chance I think of using geo profiling to find where he left SS.

It's curious to me, knowing where his home address was that he drove the furthest away from there to dump Ciara his last, counter to theory in the opposite direction to his assumed anchor and he doubled back. Another reason why I think, his anchor wasn't Fountain Way it was somewhere in Claremont, he was part of the furniture.

 

[petedavo]

Julie disappeared 20/6/1988. BRE was only 19yo atm of Julie's disappearance.
He regularly attended Claremont Speedway since childhood, and befriended the son of blonde haired speedway driver Barry Blake, named Tim who was involved in little athletics as a kid, became a professional sports coach, working at various Catholic schools, even Iona college. Tim probably introduced the Edwards family to Little Athletics in Kewdale where Tim was already coaching on weekends. This is probably a better explanation than some spatial mapping algorithm. IMO

Anyway I don't think every disappearance in WA could be CSK related. I don't see a similar pattern with Julie Cutler for instance. It looks planned. None of the cases that the accused is charged with appear to be similar.

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

 

[BlueE]

Julie disappeared 20/6/1988. BRE was only 19yo atm of Julie's disappearance.
He regularly attended Claremont Speedway since childhood, and befriended the son of blonde haired speedway driver Barry Blake, named Tim who was involved in little athletics as a kid, became a professional sports coach, working at various Catholic schools, even Iona college. Tim probably introduced the Edwards family to Little Athletics in Kewdale where Tim was already coaching on weekends. This is probably a better explanation than some spatial mapping algorithm. IMO

Anyway I don't think every disappearance in WA could be CSK related. I don't see a similar pattern with Julie Cutler for instance. It looks planned. None of the cases that the accused is charged with appear to be similar.

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Thanks, interesting information.

It gives a reason why BRE became familiar with Claremont, making the jump from the alledged 1988 attack near where he lived.

 

[BlueE]

This would fit David Canter's Geographic profiling of his Circle Theory of Marauders and Commuters.
"In the world of criminal investigation, a marauder is a serial predator who works from a centrally placed home base. A commuter, on the other hand, is one who travels to a locale in search of victims."
https://www.films.com/ecTitleDetail.aspx?TitleID=30543 Very quick preview here.

Still can't explain why two of the bodies were found in straight line going through Bay View terrace in Claremont ... or the concentric circles that they and possibly others were mapped on.

 

[Badge666]

Julie disappeared 20/6/1988. BRE was only 19yo atm of Julie's disappearance.
He regularly attended Claremont Speedway since childhood, and befriended the son of blonde haired speedway driver Barry Blake, named Tim who was involved in little athletics as a kid, became a professional sports coach, working at various Catholic schools, even Iona college. Tim probably introduced the Edwards family to Little Athletics in Kewdale where Tim was already coaching on weekends. This is probably a better explanation than some spatial mapping algorithm. IMO

Anyway I don't think every disappearance in WA could be CSK related. I don't see a similar pattern with Julie Cutler for instance. It looks planned. None of the cases that the accused is charged with appear to be similar.

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

In regards to the age of a possible suspect being" only 19 "... the American True Crime journals are littered with prolific killers who began killing in their teens, e.g. Ted Bundy and the Co Ed Killer.,Even in Australia we have Milat who shot a Taxi driver at 17, and possibly Australias most prolific rapist and killer Coulston who stalked and kidnapped two teachers at gunpoint aged 16.
Enough of the "only 19". It is plenty old enough for serious crime.
The CSK whoever he may be possibly had an interest in cars, and maybe speedway. However if we look at his M.O it without doubt involves striking at attractive inebriated young women around better class nightclubs as they seek to go home. He should in fact be dubbed the "Ride Home Killer". The Cutler mystery fits in with this and is indeed similar to the crimes a man is currently accused of,particularly as she may have been pubbing and clubbing around Town after work as has now been recently confirmed.
I don't see "Planned" at all in the Cutler crime. It is after the a.m, its late and she is undoubtedly looking to go home.
What i see is a panicked and completely over the top ( albeit successful ) rush to destroy evidence to the utmost degree, and plant the seeds of doubt after the fact as to whether Cutlers disappearance is an accident, a suicide or an elopement.

 

[sprockets]

Geo profiling would already have been carried out, to no avail.

BlueE, what's the concentric circles theory? It sounds as far fetched as every other theory, including the 'deliberate' line through Bayview Tce, considering we only know where two bodies were dumped.

 

[Kurve]

What i see is a panicked and completely over the top ( albeit successful ) rush to destroy evidence to the utmost degree, and plant the seeds of doubt after the fact as to whether Cutlers disappearance is an accident, a suicide or an elopement.

This is how I read it. There's been a study done on serial killers who first strike and kill in their teens, then very often they have a long break which can be several years. If they don't take that break, invariably they end up getting caught because they haven't developed the sophistication to keep getting away with it. If I can find it, will post.

The dumping of Julie's car imo lacked that sophistication and pre-planning, or whoever killed her would have left personal items she'd have had with her (shoes and handbag, purse, cards) in the car.

The Karrakatta attack which was next imo, had planning and polish. He held that girl for several hours, hooded, restrained and he controlled in absolute silence. I think it was an exercise in control, his.

 

[petedavo]

This is how I read it. There's been a study done on serial killers who first strike and kill in their teens, then very often they have a long break which can be several years. If they don't take that break, invariably they end up getting caught because they haven't developed the sophistication to keep getting away with it. If I can find it, will post.

The dumping of Julie's car imo lacked that sophistication and pre-planning, or whoever killed her would have left personal items she'd have had with her (shoes and handbag, purse, cards) in the car.

The Karrakatta attack which was next imo, had planning and polish. He held that girl for several hours, hooded, restrained and he controlled in absolute silence. I think it was an exercise in control, his.

Interesting, but if you're going out on a limb to an opinion that Julie Cutler was the first CSK related disappearance, then why not include Kerry Turner as the first (confirmed, because we had found a body) kill?

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[Kurve]

Interesting, but if you're going out on a limb to an opinion that Julie Cutler was the first CSK related disappearance, then why not include Kerry Turner as the first (confirmed, be we had found a body) kill?

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No limb to go out on, I'm not certain at all it was BRE but he'd be a strong suspect IMO until it can be said it absolutely could not have been him. Are you confident enough to state with absolute certainty it wasn't or it could not have been BRE?

Sure, Kerry Turner as well. The cops would have to be looking to exclude him from involvement in both.

 

[Badge666]

Interesting, but if you're going out on a limb to an opinion that Julie Cutler was the first CSK related disappearance, then why not include Kerry Turner as the first (confirmed, be we had found a body) kill?

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Of Course. Once again Turner fits the M.O. A young attractive inebriated female on her way home from one of Perths most popular nightclubs. We can also conceivably add Lisa Govan in Kalgoorlie to the mix.
Tellingly, IMO after an high profile arrest allegedly related to the CSK eighteen months ago, Sarah Spiers father immediatelymade a brief statement ,followed by later appeals by the Cutler ,Turner and Govan families. Charges relating to the Spiers matter were subsequently forthcoming, and it very much appears that something could be coming around the corner with the recent release of a few long secret revelations concerning the Cutler case.....

 

[SmartAlec]

It supposed to identify where an offender lives. So if BRE lived in or close to Claremont it would probably work. Did he? Following Rossimo's theory adds the problem in linking his Huntingdale attack with the Claremont attacks.

It's interesting and led to development and further theories by others. A similar tracking system is used in footy to track players.

You would be correct in guessing this is a mapping a player on the half back line.

Applied to the CSK a possible map of known abductions (including JC) would look a bit like this, but the accused (living in Huntingdale) would be a half forward and not half back. So no help in predicting his location.
View attachment 497928

Rossmo predicts SK lives in southern suburbs of Perth.

That’s a heat map.

Burbs already been mentioned.

Once the data set is run it also doesn't say where they live(d)... it gives percentages/probability for a number of suburbs, not just one definitive answer.

Let’s see if Rossmo was right.

 

[BlueE]

Rossmo predicts SK lives in southern suburbs of Perth.

That’s a heat map.

Burbs already been mentioned.

Let’s see if Rossmo was right.

So Rossimo predicts SK lives in Southern suburbs of Perth? Where is the evidence of this?

Not possible with the locations of the CSK abductions.

 

[BlueE]

Geo profiling would already have been carried out, to no avail.

BlueE, what's the concentric circles theory? It sounds as far fetched as every other theory, including the 'deliberate' line through Bayview Tce, considering we only know where two bodies were dumped.

The circles fit Canter's marauders and commuters theory, where BRE would have been a commuter to Claremont/Cott with the very good excuse of going to the Speedway from very young.

Concentric circles not a theory that I know of but the map Dan posted, and has the strange co-incidence of having Jane and Ciara location on the edge, and possible others including Kerry Turner and Gerard Ross.
Also fits the Fibonacci Spiral.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...nnon-claremont-suspect-delayed-again.1180884/

 

[Iworkthecircus]

When's Bradley Edwards big day ?

 

[sprockets]

The circles fit Canter's marauders and commuters theory, where BRE would have been a commuter to Claremont/Cott with the very good excuse of going to the Speedway from very young.

Concentric circles not a theory that I know of but the map Dan posted, and has the strange co-incidence of having Jane and Ciara location on the edge, and possible others including Kerry Turner and Gerard Ross.
Also fits the Fibonacci Spiral.
View attachment 498321
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...nnon-claremont-suspect-delayed-again.1180884/

Thanks for the explanation. Two bodies can fit almost any theory. I guess that if more are found we may find out what fits this crime.

 

[sprockets]

When's Bradley Edwards big day ?

It was meant to be 25th of July and I presume it's still on.