Current Julie Cutler - Murder - 1988 - Cottesloe WA *To the Coroner

[BFew]

Inquest into the Suspected death of Julie CUTLER

https://www.coronerscourt.wa.gov.au/_files/Inquest_2023/CUTLER, Julie Leanne.pdf (49 pages)
'[2023] WACOR 19
JURISDICTION : CORONER'S COURT OF WESTERN AUSTRALIA
ACT : CORONERS ACT 1996
CORONER : SARAH HELEN LINTON, DEPUTY STATE CORONER HEARD :
3 - 4 NOVEMBER 2022 DELIVERED : 6 APRIL 2023
FILE NO/S : CORC 830 of 2019
DECEASED : CUTLER, JULIE LEANNE'

 

[BFew]

if the water was up to the pavilion and the current was pushing south, with rough waves it could have forced the car south rather than straight ahead.

https://www.cottesloe.wa.gov.au/documents/809/jul-cottesloe-coastal-monitoring-summary-report

'Currents in the Perth coastal waters are predominantly wind-driven, characterised by a net northward flow of water in summer and southward in winter, with longshore current speeds ranging 0.04–0.2 m/s (Searle & Semeniuk 1985, Pattiaratchi et al. 1997). Topographic forcing and longshore variation in wave energy can also create circulating current cells and high-velocity rip currents (Bowyer 1987). Strong rip currents are common around the nearshore rock reefs at Cottesloe, increasing in frequency during winter and high wave conditions (Olsson 2004).'

 

[zedx]

There seems to be plenty of photo's of the drivers side of JC's car, but I can't recall any of the passenger side. Does anyone have any photo's of the passenger side?

 

[skygem]

this is inside a 1968 fiat sedan

'Her 1968 Fiat sedan was discovered in the surf at the Cottesloe beach'

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/attachments/screenshot-2022-11-11-at-3-01-01-pm-png.1552303/

can't see how an object could be trapped beneath the brake pedal not unlike more modern cars with a shorter distance pedal to floor.

notice the gears stick on the column, auto.(and i'm not saying this was the actual model of car)

interesting, the hand brake in the center

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/attachments/screenshot-2022-11-11-at-3-01-01-pm-png.1552303/

inside a 1980 fiat sedan

more modern, but still the pedals are not as much of a problem of an object being trapped underneath

manual on the floor this one

no electric windows on either year makes

one thing i do notice is these older cars are more heavy duty, more metal in the guts of the build compared to modern cars

there have been incidents of fatal accidents of objects being trapped underneath the brake/accelerator pedals trust me on this one, but i was lucky

 

[Kurve]

There seems to be plenty of photo's of the drivers side of JC's car, but I can't recall any of the passenger side. Does anyone have any photo's of the passenger side?

Looks like it has dents in the passenger side, similar to other cars that have been tossed around in the surf.

 

[zedx]

Looks like it has dents in the passenger side, similar to other cars that have been tossed around in the surf.

JC's car has an enormous amount of damage, from dents, long scrapes running down the entire side, puncture holes, caved in roof etc. But very little frontal (or rear damage), which I find a little odd as I would have expected it to have major frontal damage from entering the water, thus causing the bonnet to detach and float away ( along with the back seat miraculously disconnecting and also floating away). IIRC it has been said before that a lot of the damage to the car could have been done during the retrieval.

 

[metic]

JC's car has an enormous amount of damage, from dents, long scrapes running down the entire side, puncture holes, caved in roof etc. But very little frontal (or rear damage), which I find a little odd as I would have expected it to have major frontal damage from entering the water, thus causing the bonnet to detach and float away ( along with the back seat miraculously disconnecting and also floating away). IIRC it has been said before that a lot of the damage to the car could have been done during the retrieval.

the ocean is powerful enough to damage vehicles like that. my friends Toyota troopy had similar crushed roof from going upside down on a beach with 1 metre swell, there is nothing mysterious about it

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[skygem]

the ocean is powerful enough to damage vehicles like that. my friends Toyota troopy had similar crushed roof from going upside down on a beach with 1 metre swell, there is nothing mysterious about it

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yes, do agree with your points, maybe we are just not up to scratch with the possibilities due to the fact not enough cars are found in the ocean

 

[mrskafoops]

These articles are from 1996… they say that it was Lance who had the uni connection with Julie and did psychology, not Edwards.

 

[FTY1]

These articles are from 1996… they say that it was Lance who had the uni connection with Julie and did psychology, not Edwards.

That article was a bit later. It is from the Sunday Times July 9, 2000.

 

[mrskafoops]

That article was a bit later. It is from the Sunday Times July 9, 2000.

Yes you are correct… still pre BRE

 

[Krusty Crab]

did i read correctly somewhere previous that the drivers window of JC car was down? not broken or missing, but wound down? if it was stormy and windy at the beach that night, unlikely JC was driving about with the window down.

given she wasn't still strapped into the drivers seat by her seat belt, was the window wound down by her while trying to escape after the car went in the water, or did some one push the car into the water, steering the car from outside through the open window?

does anyone know how good of a swimmer JC was? if she drove the car into the water, got the window down and managed to escape, then found her self in a stormy ocean, is it possible she would be able to swim to safety? if the car went into the water around the time the tide was going out, could the body have been dragged out into deeper water, while the heavier car got dragged about until it got stuck on the reef?

 

[BFew]

COLD CASE: The two killers ruled out of Cutler mystery

Two convicted killers who murdered three women between them were looked at as potential suspects in the disappearance of Julie Cutler but were swiftly ruled out, it can now be revealed.

thewest.com.au

'Julie Cutler case: David Troy Masters and Azizul bin Azaddin ruled out of 1988 disappearance'

 

[Kurve]

did i read correctly somewhere previous that the drivers window of JC car was down? not broken or missing, but wound down? if it was stormy and windy at the beach that night, unlikely JC was driving about with the window down.

given she wasn't still strapped into the drivers seat by her seat belt, was the window wound down by her while trying to escape after the car went in the water, or did some one push the car into the water, steering the car from outside through the open window?

does anyone know how good of a swimmer JC was? if she drove the car into the water, got the window down and managed to escape, then found her self in a stormy ocean, is it possible she would be able to swim to safety? if the car went into the water around the time the tide was going out, could the body have been dragged out into deeper water, while the heavier car got dragged about until it got stuck on the reef?

Drivers side window down and the front driver's door was open. When cars are submerged, pressure makes it impossible to get the doors open, it's hit and miss whether the windows can be wound down, you might get a few seconds to do it in if the water's over the roof and thinking fast.

Julie, presumably still drunk in a rolling car in the middle of a black, stormy winter night, managed to take the window down and open the door to get free? Unless 'open' door indicates it was merely unlocked but I think it was open a bit.

There were two escapes out of that car available, door and window both drivers side. That says to me in the circumstances, it probably wasn't Julie who did that but rather someone doing a job on it.

 

[metic]

link no good it seems

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[BFew]

link no good it seems

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The tweet was removed.
Maybe it didn't meet some of the new twitter rules.

Back in the post with the removed tweet, I've replaced it with a link direct to the article and a screenshot of the article headline + pic that was in the tweet that is currently on the front page of the online West Australian newspaper.

 

[BFew]

Azizul bin Azaddin ruled out of 1988 disappearance

Killer’s role in solving murder mystery

FREED convicted child killer Arthur Greer was the source of a vital tip-off that helped detectives solve one of the 1990s’ most sensational murder mysteries.

www.perthnow.com.au

'It was August 1993 and Detective Mark Andrews and private investigator Mick Buckley were standing alongside a 25-year-old Malaysian national, Azizul bin Azaddin.'

'Azaddin was then charged with the wilful murder of Siti Bahyah. He was convicted in September 1994 and sentenced to strict security life imprisonment.'

'his sentence for raping a Perth mother in front of her children.'

Investigation Case Studies - Mick Buckley Private Investigator - Perth

Investigation Case Studies include Missing persons, Insurance Fraud, Infidelity, Family Law Matters, Stolen Machinery, Stolen Vehicles, Stolen Pets

www.mickbuckleyprivateinvestigator.com.au

'Siti Bahyah

Siti, a Malaysian student, was reported missing in 1992. ' ​

Huntingdale and Maddington are pretty close to each other.
Separated by Thornlie.

 

[BFew]

'Azaddin was then charged with the wilful murder of Siti Bahyah. He was convicted in September 1994 and sentenced to strict security life imprisonment.'

1999WASCA 265 WA Supreme Court Appeal - wilful murder of Siti Bahyah

AZADDIN -v- R [1994] Library 940030 Supreme Court of WA Judgement - aggravated sexual assault

 

[mrskafoops]

T

don't know why, but i'm thinking about the 'Hawaiian pen'

The person that found the stuff said the pen had “Hawaiian club” written on it

 

[mrskafoops]

Lance Williams, Edwards and Julie all did psychology together… who would’ve known

 

[BFew]

Lance Williams, Edwards and Julie all did psychology together… who would’ve known

All I know is that I didn't do psychology with Lance, Bradley and Julie!

 

[mrskafoops]

did i read correctly somewhere previous that the drivers window of JC car was down? not broken or missing, but wound down? if it was stormy and windy at the beach that night, unlikely JC was driving about with the window down.

given she wasn't still strapped into the drivers seat by her seat belt, was the window wound down by her while trying to escape after the car went in the water, or did some one push the car into the water, steering the car from outside through the open window?

does anyone know how good of a swimmer JC was? if she drove the car into the water, got the window down and managed to escape, then found her self in a stormy ocean, is it possible she would be able to swim to safety? if the car went into the water around the time the tide was going out, could the body have been dragged out into deeper water, while the heavier car got dragged about until it got stuck on the reef?

The marine expert at the inquest said that there was 5m swell and a storm surge... not even a strong swimmer would be able to deal with that.

 

[mrskafoops]

All I know is that I didn't do psychology with Lance, Bradley and Julie!

That made me laugh

It's annoying though that there are so many media articles saying this about Edwards. If he did Psychology with Julie, he would have been 15 years old. He's not a super genius. Who goes to Uni at 15 other than Doogie Howser??? BUT I guess its really irrelevant isn't it.. doesn't change anything if BRE did or did not go to Uni with Julie.

 

[FTY1]

That made me laugh

It's annoying though that there are so many media articles saying this about Edwards. If he did Psychology with Julie, he would have been 15 years old. He's not a super genius. Who goes to Uni at 15 other than Doogie Howser??? BUT I guess its really irrelevant isn't it.. doesn't change anything if BRE did or did not go to Uni with Julie.

I would be doubtful that he did. Julie would have left school in about 1982 and BRE 1985. Assuming that she went to Uni straight away after leaving school perhaps 1983. I assume he started at Telstra immediately after school so not likely to have done the course IMO.

 

[BFew]

If Bradley Edwards actually did do a psychology unit at some point in his life to date, that would not surprise me.

Psychology units/studies often attracts people who have psychological issues, to help them better understand themselves, or from having taken an interest in the subject when doing some self-psychoanalysis or self-learning to understand their behavior, or their families behavior.

And there was apparently at least one qualified psychologist on convicted Bradley Edwards Claremont (Serial?) Killer 2nd wife's side of the family.

 

[metic]

The marine expert at the inquest said that there was 5m swell and a storm surge... not even a strong swimmer would be able to deal with that.

Something was lost in translation there mrsK,
that's is incorrect information.
the "marine expert" is not so expert?
(I am actually the one who researched the weather info in the first place, as seen on another sleuthing website )
The swell at cottesloe Beach would have been at the most 3 metres but more likely 2.5 - 2 metres.
There was no "storm surge" either , that is the incorrect term for the situation, there was just a high tide with swell / waves.
The barometric pressure was not causing "inverse barometer effects"
which is a "storm surge"
The storm / low cell : hpa pressure was already passed and a high pressure cell moved in during the AM / morning of Monday 20th June.
storm surge would have likely occurred during the previous days 18th & 19th June 1988.
Another factor they couldn't get right for the inquest ?



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