Current Julie Cutler - Murder - 1988 - Cottesloe WA *To the Coroner

[BFew]

Inquest into the Suspected death of Julie CUTLER

https://www.coronerscourt.wa.gov.au/_files/Inquest_2023/CUTLER, Julie Leanne.pdf (49 pages)
'[2023] WACOR 19
JURISDICTION : CORONER'S COURT OF WESTERN AUSTRALIA
ACT : CORONERS ACT 1996
CORONER : SARAH HELEN LINTON, DEPUTY STATE CORONER HEARD :
3 - 4 NOVEMBER 2022 DELIVERED : 6 APRIL 2023
FILE NO/S : CORC 830 of 2019
DECEASED : CUTLER, JULIE LEANNE'

 

[Kurve]

Actually think they might. The last one shows someone walking in waist deep water, so it'd rule out that location of where the fiat might've been submerged unnoticed for 2 days.

They're great pics but we could remember imo there was a huge swell prior to the car being found and the roof had caved in so it could well have been camouflaged just under the water even in the area of the person standing in it waist high. Also likely with a big lumps of seaweed thats always there after it's been a bit rough, floating around on top of it.

And the other images show that the area near the building as being reasonably hidden from viewing from Marine Parade, which means that the perpetrator might've had some scope for doing something before placing the vehicle in the ocean.

Yet, in clear view of the old surf club. I dunnoooo PD, unconvinced it went down the boat ramp when the water was right up to the retainer wall the ramp would have been covered in water. Could it even be clearly seen apart and separate from the steps? Just thinking, if it was me and I wanted to dump that car fast, I'd drive it in off the service road in a straight line and bail.

 

[Kurve]

Someone may have thought it might be a good idea to drive the car off the end but the end result has so many variables that it feels more like a random opportunity than a pre-determined one. There are many more ways to destroy a car than putting it in the water

The destruction is a side benefit not the main aim imo

Something else has happened maybe? It might be something like the driver has gone past someone he recognised - or the cops - not sure if they've noticed or pegged him and gone fk fk fk. Dump it. Fast.

 

[GreyCrow]

Something else has happened maybe? It might be something like the driver has gone past someone he recognised - or the cops - not sure if they've noticed or pegged him and gone fk fk fk. Dump it. Fast.

To be fair, looking at the pictures it really looks like something I have done when drunk ie just keep driving through the T and over the lumps and bumps etc

 

[Kurve]

To be fair, looking at the pictures it really looks like something I have done when drunk ie just keep driving through the T and over the lumps and bumps etc

But we'd probs know it, and go "Cya Crow" give you a nice farewell, glare angrily at anybody who dares mention that's what you did and we wouldn't still be looking for you thirty years later on bigfooty.

 

[Kurve]

Thanks PD. I can see you're putting a bit of work into this, it's very interesting.

I see what you mean about David Everett petedavo , what a complex character.

"SAS trooper-turned-Australia's most wanted criminal David Everett has died after a year-long battle with cancer.

The 51-year-old, whose kidnappings and robberies made headlines in the early 1990s, wrote an autobiography in 2008 and was accused of extortion in 2011 by Labor MP John Quigley.

Married to Commonwealth government lawyer Darryl Wookey, Everett is understood to have died in Canberra on Monday."

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/cancer-kills-notorious-sas-man-ng-ya-350365

 

[pennypal]

Possibly not related but an interesting case with some similarities to a few cases in WA, IMO.

http://www.australianmissingpersonsregister.com/HelenFeeney.htm

Might be the case that this refers to...?

https://m.qt.com.au/news/police-have-charged-man-over-1987-brisbane-murder-/3471903/

Barrie Watts. Do we know if he could have been in WA at all?

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[petedavo]

This is the part I cant get my head around. There is no way anybody could determine how long a car would be in the water for. If they scoped the lie of the sea then they would be looking at low tide conditions ie where and when there is maximum exposure.

Someone may have thought it might be a good idea to drive the car off the end but the end result has so many variables that it feels more like a random opportunity than a pre-determined one. There are many more ways to destroy a car than putting it in the water

The destruction is a side benefit not the main aim imo

If they wanted to hide it, they would've turned the lights off.
I agree, I don't think they wanted it hidden. They probably didn't intend for it to get as far as the water even.
However, it doesn't appear to be for shock value either, otherwise there would've been a body in it. IMO

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[FTY1]

I wish we had an exact timeline of events so we knew what order events occurred.

For instance;
Incident on Stirling Hwy
Break in at her residence
Depart work
Couple laves Parmelia
Julie departs in Fiat turning East
Car placed in Ocean
Flatmate rings father wondering where Julie is. Found Julie's wallet.
Car found in ocean
Bag of clothes found at Kebab shop but not handed in for a year
Julie's Uncle interviewed at beach searching with Julie's father who's come down from Kalgoorlie.
Press conference where Julie's dad asks whoever is holding her to let her go
Phone call by a woman to a journalist claiming to be Julie asking to be left alone

I'm only guessing here. This order would fit 1 of my theories, but a change in order might fit another.

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This is my best guess to filling in the blanks from reading old newspapers this is what I am surmising. Press conference was on a Monday. I assume a week later but may be wrong.
"In the morning of Tuesday 21 June 1988 Miss Cutler’s flat mate reported her missing. "
https://www.crimestopperswa.com.au/...ous-julie-leanne-cutler-perth-wa-20-jun-1988/

Incident on Stirling Hwy (Just weeks before)
Break in at her residence
Depart work 10.00pm (Shift 6pm to 10pm) (Perhaps put uniform in plastic bag into the car)
Couple leaves Parmelia
Julie departs in Fiat turning East 12.30am
Car placed in Ocean
Flatmate rings father wondering where Julie is. Found Julie's wallet. Tuesday 21st June (maybe called Julie's father on the Monday)
Car found in ocean Wednesday 22nd June 11.45am.
Bag of clothes found at Kebab shop but not handed in for a year (handed in June 1989)
Julie's Uncle interviewed at beach searching with Julie's father who's come down from Kalgoorlie. (Saturday 25th?)
Press conference where Julie's dad asks whoever is holding her to let her go. Monday 27th June
Phone call by a woman to a journalist claiming to be Julie asking to be left alone Monday 27th June after the press conference

 

[Melsy]

Probably drove with lights on to see in dark. Couldnt turn lights off once in water in dark.Climbed out the drivers window in the water.
The ocean washes the DNA out the car instead setting car on fire in beach car park.
You have someone with a criminal career there. Best of luck..

 

[GreyCrow]

Probably drove with lights on to see in dark. Couldnt turn lights off once in water in dark.
The ocean washes the DNA out the car instead setting car on fire in beach car park.
You have someone with a criminal career there. Best of luck..

But this is 1988. DNA testing is nil to miniscule. Its not something on a crims mind back then

 

[Melsy]

But this is 1988. DNA testing is nil to miniscule. Its not something on a crims mind back then

Best car wash ever. Blood, hair. Who knows what was in there.

 

[Melsy]

Just did a quick search on this case. A woman on Facebook made an unsubstantiated claim she went to York primary school with Julie Cutler. Country girl.

Julie Cutler is from York?

 

[Kurve]

Possibly not related but an interesting case with some similarities to a few cases in WA, IMO.

http://www.australianmissingpersonsregister.com/HelenFeeney.htm

Might be the case that this refers to...?

https://m.qt.com.au/news/police-have-charged-man-over-1987-brisbane-murder-/3471903/

Barrie Watts. Do we know if he could have been in WA at all?

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The couple, him and Valmae Beck. Oh ..

 

[FTY1]

Just did a quick search on this case. A woman on Facebook made an unsubstantiated claim she went to York primary school with Julie Cutler. Country girl.

Julie Cutler is from York?

3 of her primary school years were at Iona Primary "Julie was at Iona between 1975 and 1982". 1975 - 1977 Primary 1978 - 82 High.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/103679664/julie-leanne-cutler

There are family links to York with Jane Marwick. No mention of school.

"Julie Cutler was my third cousin. Bright, outgoing, strong and very close to her younger sister, Nicole. The girls had lost their mother, my cousin Robyn, when she was just 29.

I remember the city cousins visiting us in York, their sick mum sitting in our lounge room while we snuck off and swung on the clothes line."

https://www.perthnow.com.au/opinion...-loss-scarred-and-scared-us-all-ng-b88873754z

 

[Kurve]

Wonder if the cops/forensics thought to remove the door handles from the car and pack them away. I believe you can still get prints off metal surfaces after 70 days of being in salt water and fingerprints have been developed from surfaces forty years later.

Just a thought.

 

[Kurve]

The 51-year-old, whose kidnappings and robberies made headlines in the early 1990s, wrote an autobiography in 2008 and was accused of extortion in 2011 by Labor MP John Quigley.

Married to Commonwealth government lawyer Darryl Wookey, Everett is understood to have died in Canberra on Monday."

Wow ... Darryl Wookey left John Quigley now WA Attorney General for an ex SAS armed robber/kidnapper. This tops Canberra's shenanigans ...

 

[petedavo]

Just did a quick search on this case. A woman on Facebook made an unsubstantiated claim she went to York primary school with Julie Cutler. Country girl.

Julie Cutler is from York?

Her mum's family is from Northam/York, as per an article by Jane Marwick, who's Julie's cousin. As far as I know, she was a boarder at Iona.

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[petedavo]

Wow ... Darryl Wookey left John Quigley now WA Attorney General for an ex SAS armed robber/kidnapper. This tops Canberra's shenanigans ...

Google Carl Casilli, Kristin Clohessy and John Hammond

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[Kurve]

Google Carl Casilli, Kristin Clohessy and John Hammond

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How many convictions has Detective Carl "crackpipe" Casilli had a hand in or on evidence?

 

[FTY1]

Wonder if the cops/forensics thought to remove the door handles from the car and pack them away. I believe you can still get prints off metal surfaces after 70 days of being in salt water and fingerprints have been developed from surfaces forty years later.

Just a thought.

From the pictures that Sorbet Bliss posted in #735 https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...88-cottesloe-wa.1180051/page-30#post-56747797 could also be interior window winder or door handle or gear stick given the window was down and the driver's door was open.

 

[Kurve]

From the pictures that Sorbet Bliss posted in #735 https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...88-cottesloe-wa.1180051/page-30#post-56747797 could also be interior window winder or door handle or gear stick given the window was down and the driver's door was open.

Hey petedavo do you know where her car would be now and if bits and pieces of the actual car might be bagged in evidence somewhere?

 

[pennypal]

The couple, him and Valmae Beck. Oh ..

Another 'Burnie' in WA and they were in WA before their killing spree in Queensland were apparently in WA.... wonder if any other 'missing' could possibly be linked to them? In WA or elsewhere.... the burned reference a also mentioned...

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[petedavo]

Hey petedavo do you know where her car would be now and if bits and pieces of the actual car might be bagged in evidence somewhere?

Not sure. The unit that holds onto evidence moved from Maylands to Belmont some years ago. So it's probably in Belmont. I note though that Maylands was probably deficient for purpose for many years inasmuch as vehicles were stored outside, whereas the Belmont facility I believe that they're locked inside a warehouse. I have no idea how long they keep the vehicles for though. They might still have it, but I'd expect it would be rusted to buggery by now.

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[metic]

Wonder if the cops/forensics thought to remove the door handles from the car and pack them away. I believe you can still get prints off metal surfaces after 70 days of being in salt water and fingerprints have been developed from surfaces forty years later.

Just a thought.

Natural 'sand blasting' could completely destroy fingerprints i think. Fine sand would have rubbed over everything, caused by constant wave action.
Its unlikely to be possible due to the this occurence.
If fine sand swirls around an object continuously for days underwater in the wave zone, and there's also the seaweed, that would be like polishing with a cloth, sand and seawater.
Seaweed in the area was highly likely.
In this screen shot the dark water is seaweedy.
Cottesloe beach source instagram hashtag # cottesloebeach
JmO

 

[Kurve]

Not sure. The unit that holds onto evidence moved from Maylands to Belmont some years ago. So it's probably in Belmont. I note though that Maylands was probably deficient for purpose for many years inasmuch as vehicles were stored outside, whereas the Belmont facility I believe that they're locked inside a warehouse. I have no idea how long they keep the vehicles for though. They might still have it, but I'd expect it would be rusted to buggery by now.

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Rust starts within minutes I think of being dragged out. Might be some hope under the lip of the ashtray (or is it a slide around in the door?) if they have the butts. No idea how they think dna might still be on those but advancements are moving so fast ..