Jumper clash fails

[Dirty Bird]

fwiw - On the prison bars argument

I think their guernsey is absolutely perfect and I've never seen a guernsey so good. The reason I say this, is the composition. It's perhaps the ONLY guernsey I've come across, where the shorts actually make the difference. You wear it with black, and it feels a dark kit. Yet, when necessary, you change the shorts, and because the way the bottom half of the guernsey has a large portion of white on it. It changes the composition that it feels a white kit. It's the only guernsey I know of where the shorts actually change the feel of the kit. Black and it's bold, white and it's a decent clash. I actually believe that a Carlton home vs Port Adelaide prison bars in white shorts is enough contrast it works. I actually believe Port could use it, and not even need a secondary kit. It's simply the perfect guernsey.

But, but, but, but. What we've seen with Port over the years epitomises the saying "Give an inch, take a mile". That's what this all feels like.

They wanted it for heritage round, cool, got it.
They wanted it for their 150th year celebrations, cool, got it.
Now they want it for home showdowns every year?

I can see why Collingwood would oppose it. They bend a little, then Port comes back wanting more. I then look at the Port arguments about it's obviously different, and they're right. But kids don't think that. They can see black and white stripes. Could buy Port gear when they want Collingwood. So I get why Collingwood don't want Port wanting them in similar. It could cost them revenue with fans (and in particular kids) going for Port gear when wanting Collingwood.

But then I also feel this contract for heritage round is BS. Port were ignorant, Collingwood wern't. They signed something in bad faith and I find it deceitful and dishonourable. Simply bs. That contract imo should be ripped up.

What do I want? I dont know. But what I do know is I understand where both clubs are coming from. If I blindly look at it from a Port perspective, I agree with where they're coming from. But if i look at it from a Collingwood perspective, I also agree with where they're coming from.

I think a perfect balance is making a new contract. Port Adelaide can wear the prison bars in ONE game per year. (No limitation on who it's vs but it can only be 1 game)
And I dont think it should be locked into their home showdown (Though, in most years it probably will be that game). I actually think in 2035 they should wear it vs Collingwood for the 125 years of their 1910 CoA, or 2038 vs Fitzroy/Brisbane, or 2039 vs Carlton etc. (They can wear magenta for their anniversary games from the 1890 South Melbourne/Sydney game)

The ONLY reason I am against Port's stance atm is the 'give an inch, take a mile'. Collingwood has compromised a few times, and then Port want more. Put that contract in place, Without Collingwood acting in bad faith, and what can Port do? They have to accept the inch. They can't ask for more.

 

[phantom13]

Nup.

Richmond have a great alternate in the yellow. Suns going from red to blue also is great. And then you have teams like Freo and Carlton with the white.

What we need to do is actually compare jumpers, two teams should never be able to compete in predominantly black/navy jumpers.

It really isnt hard -

Carlton away to Richmond or Essendon play in white alternate.
Richmond away to Essendon or Adelaide play in yellow alternate.

I think the fact this thread exists and is at 180+ pages would indicate that the policy and and it’s enforcement isn’t working all that well, which was my point.

 

[beerbandit]

You dont get what established means

Collingwood were established in 1892

We won a VFA flag in 1896, it isnt recongised in our 15 VFL/AFL premierships, because we only joined that competition in 1897, but it is an important part of the Collingwood history.

Port should celebrate their SANFL origins, but just like they moved on from.magenta, they should embrace the AFL identity now and leave the black n white magpies to

The club was established in 1870. What's hard about that to understand?

This is my point!!!! All your 1870 Merchandise has pictures of Magpies on it which you are selling as AFL Merchandise.

I know the Port Adelaide FC was established in 1870, but the Power was formed in 1997 and you had to change your colours not to clash with Collingwood.

Now you guys are slowly trying to remove every bit of teal associated with it as you are trying to distance yourself as the “Power”.

As many posters have said “give an inch and take a mile”. I have no doubt that if we continue to be kind to your club (which we are) and not c*nts as you said, that in 20 years time you’ll be calling your AFL side the Port Adelaide Magpies. As far as I’m concerned your club can stick it as I couldn’t trust your filthy president as far as I could throw him.

If you want to wear the prison bars and watch them in the prison bars, you have plenty of opportunity by going down to a local SANFL game and watching the Port Adelaide Magpies, heck even have a few beers and talk to your mates about how good the jumper looks, but only in a SANFL setting and not AFL.

 

[Saltiga]

This is my point!!!! All your 1870 Merchandise has pictures of Magpies on it which you are selling as AFL Merchandise.

I know the Port Adelaide FC was established in 1870, but the Power was formed in 1997 and you had to change your colours not to clash with Collingwood.

Now you guys are slowly trying to remove every bit of teal associated with it as you are trying to distance yourself as the “Power”.

As many posters have said “give an inch and take a mile”. I have no doubt that if we continue to be kind to your club (which we are) and not c*nts as you said, that in 20 years time you’ll be calling your AFL side the Port Adelaide Magpies. As far as I’m concerned your club can stick it as I couldn’t trust your filthy president as far as I could throw him.

If you want to wear the prison bars and watch them in the prison bars, you have plenty of opportunity by going down to a local SANFL game and watching the Port Adelaide Magpies, heck even have a few beers and talk to your mates about how good the jumper looks, but only in a SANFL setting and not AFL.

I just looked online at the Port Store and I'm not seeing merchandise with magpies on it.

 

[Soggy2112]

I just looked online at the Port Store and I'm not seeing merchandise with magpies on it.

Port Adelaide Fibre Of Footy Short Sleeve Prison Bar Jumper

Looking for the perfect way to show your support for the Port Adelaide Football Club this summer? Check out the Fibre Of Footy Short Sleeve Prison Bar Jumper!

portstore.com.au

Seems fairly clear that Port are deliberately blurring the lines between the AFL and SANFL side since the PAFC/PAMFC merger, and sneaking various Magpie merch into the AFL identity.

 

[Soggy2112]

Are Collingwood fans purposely being ignorant, or does it come naturally?

1870 is in reference to the Port Adelaide Football Club. A club that has played in the SANFL from 1877-present, and played in the AFL from 1997-present. Magpies or Power is irrelevant. They would be using Magpies in the AFL if it weren't for the existence of Collingwood. A new moniker had to be adopted. But the club is the same.

As you mentioned the PAFC that entered the AFL and exists today is the same PAFC that played in the SANFL pre-1997.

The part that is seemingly now being ignored is that the Port Adelaide that competed in the SANFL from 1997-2013 was a different club called the Port Adelaide Magpies Football Club that operated separately. From memory the PAFC was not allowed to use the Magpies anymore, but since the PAFC-PAMFC merger they’ve kind of snuck some of it in. The scarf that they all wave during INXS has a magpies logo on it, the above jumper I posted has a magpies logo, despite having official AFL merch authentication on it. It seems the line is being deliberately blurred.

The PAFC also claims they’ve won 37 premierships which they haven’t, they’ve won 35 (which is still very impressive), but the 1998, 1999 SANFL flags were won by the PAMFC.

 

[Papa G]

This is one of the the main reasons Collingwood are reluctant to agree to Port wearing the stripes.
Give an inch and take a mile.
Step 1 - Port wear stripes for Heritage game
Step 2 - Port wear stripes for 150 year celebration
Step 3 - Port wear stripes for all home showdowns
Step 4 - Port wear stripes for all showdowns
Step 5 - Port wear stripes for all home games
Step 6 - Port just wears stripes
This is how you would like to see it go I assume.

And you wonder why we have concerns.

Its a slippery slope. Like McGuire's fat belly.

Entitled and Insecure are the Wobblers.

Port should wear the Bars all the time except AWAY games against Collingwood. Every team/club in every comp, all over the world, gets to chose their home stroip and wear it when they play at home. No ifs or buts. I understand we play in a bush league run by the incompetent and corrupt Victorian State government but these simple truths hold true everywhere else. But Victoria seems to play by different rules. Fairness, precedent and common sense take a back seat. The AFL are a weak and corrupt organisation beholden to Victorian State Government under the table deals to ensure their own interests are looked after. It's amazing how unsuccessful Collingwood are with all these beneficiaries. They really are rotten to the core.

 

[Soggy2112]

Its a slippery slope. Like McGuire's fat belly.

Entitled and Insecure are the Wobblers.

Port should wear the Bars all the time except AWAY games against Collingwood. Every team/club in every comp, all over the world, gets to chose their home stroip and wear it when they play at home. No ifs or buts. I understand we play in a bush league run by the incompetent and corrupt Victorian State government but these simple truths hold true everywhere else. But Victoria seems to play by different rules. Fairness, precedent and common sense take a back seat. The AFL are a weak and corrupt organisation beholden to Victorian State Government under the table deals to ensure their own interests are looked after. It's amazing how unsuccessful Collingwood are with all these beneficiaries. They really are rotten to the core.

If that were true, why did Port block the Crows from wearing the state jumper?

 

[greatwhiteshark]

No common knowledge is that the Port Adelaide Power entered the comp in 1997.

If it were the PAFC est 1870 then the premierships they have won in the SANFL would be recognised in the AFL which they are not.

They are recognised by footy supporters as first tier premierships which they are.
The VFL which was the Victorian state league footy comp is recognised because it went on to grow into the AFL. It was however still just a state league no different to the SANFL and WAFL.

 

[melanChronic]

If that were true, why did Port block the Crows from wearing the state jumper?

Port did not block that lol, there was general outrage in the state from fans and former state representatives (including Ricciuto). The SANFL rescinded permission after it was clearly ridiculous to let them wear it in the first place. It was a classic Leigh Whicker out of touch kerfuffle.

 

[Saltiga]

Port Adelaide Fibre Of Footy Short Sleeve Prison Bar Jumper

Looking for the perfect way to show your support for the Port Adelaide Football Club this summer? Check out the Fibre Of Footy Short Sleeve Prison Bar Jumper!

portstore.com.au

Seems fairly clear that Port are deliberately blurring the lines between the AFL and SANFL side since the PAFC/PAMFC merger, and sneaking various Magpie merch into the AFL identity.

Newsflash.....we were the Magpies in the SANFL for almost 150 years. We are entitled to sell SANFL magpies merchandise. All clubs sell merchandise commemorating their history.

We are the Power in the AFL. Port is not selling Power merchandise with a Magpie on it.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Port should wear the Bars all the time except AWAY games against Collingwood. Every team/club in every comp, all over the world, gets to chose their home stroip and wear it when they play at home. No ifs or buts. I understand we play in a bush league run by the incompetent and corrupt Victorian State government but these simple truths hold true everywhere else. But Victoria seems to play by different rules. Fairness, precedent and common sense take a back seat. The AFL are a weak and corrupt organisation beholden to Victorian State Government under the table deals to ensure their own interests are looked after. It's amazing how unsuccessful Collingwood are with all these beneficiaries. They really are rotten to the core.

To play devils advocate again... this league has quite a different structure to most sporting leagues, where clubs are much more independent.

Part of that is that all clubs have been required to sign their trade marks (names, logos) over to the central league body. The clubs themselves do not own or control them. The AFL does, and licences them to the clubs for use.

In doing this, there's a very valid argument that the league has a responsibility to protect those trade marks and ensure they're not infringed. Collingwood could argue that allowing another AFL club a similar identity is a failure of the AFL to protect its trade marks, which is one of the responsibilities the AFL undertook when it took ownership of them.

 

[beerbandit]

Are Collingwood fans purposely being ignorant, or does it come naturally?

1870 is in reference to the Port Adelaide Football Club. A club that has played in the SANFL from 1877-present, and played in the AFL from 1997-present. Magpies or Power is irrelevant. They would be using Magpies in the AFL if it weren't for the existence of Collingwood. A new moniker had to be adopted. But the club is the same.

You don’t get the argument, it is you who is being ignorant.

 

[beerbandit]

I just looked online at the Port Store and I'm not seeing merchandise with magpies on it.

Have a look on page 4 please and come back to me.

 

[Soggy2112]

Newsflash.....we are the Magpies in the SANFL and have been for over 150 years.

We are the Power in the AFL. Port is not selling Power merchandise with a Magpie on it.

I understand it's convoluted but we have an SANFL team and an AFL team....one club fields two teams in different competitions.

Check the link, that jumper is advertised as having AFL certification and has the AFL logo printed on it. It also has all your flags printed on it, including the AFL one. It is very much intended as being merchandise for the Port Adelaide Football Club, not the Port Adelaide Magpies in the SANFL. I think those NTUS scarves were a bit of a pisstake as well, the club encouraged people to wear them and wave them around at AFL games, with a magpie logo on it, I get why that annoyed Collingwood.

Port have also stopped using the Magpies logo in the SANFL.

Like I said, I can see both sides. Port 100% should be able to celebrate their heritage and wear the prison bars once a year.

However, the reality is Port entered the league Collingwood was in, not the other way around. Black and white, the stripes (yes I know PBs are different but they’re still a variation of stripes), and the magpie was their identity, and they had a right to keep it. It’s pretty obvious that Port aren’t just trying to wear the heritage jumper once a year, they want to reclaim it as their identity, so I get why Collingwood would want to block it.

Port need to accept that they’re teal, black and white and the Power now. If they do that then I think there would be no issues with them wearing a heritage jumper once a year.

 

[Saltiga]

Have a look on page 4 please and come back to me.

Yes i see that. It's a vintage commemorative SANFL prison bar guernsey with a Magpie. In the SANFL we were the magpies for almost 150 years. It's just a fact that's our history in the SANFL.

We are not selling Port Power AFL team merchandise with a Magpie on it though.

 

[Soggy2112]

Port did not block that lol, there was general outrage in the state from fans and former state representatives (including Ricciuto). The SANFL rescinded permission after it was clearly ridiculous to let them wear it in the first place. It was a classic Leigh Whicker out of touch kerfuffle.

Port certainly had an issue with it, but the argument was a club can wear whatever they want as long as it doesn’t clash, if that we’re true then no one should’ve prevented us wearing it.

For the record I think us not wearing was the right call. We shouldn’t have had our non-SA players running around in it.

 

[Saltiga]

Check the link, that jumper is advertised as having AFL certification and has the AFL logo printed on it. It also has all your flags printed on it, including the AFL one. It is very much intended as being merchandise for the Port Adelaide Football Club, not the Port Adelaide Magpies in the SANFL. I think those NTUS scarves were a bit of a pisstake as well, the club encouraged people to wear them and wave them around at AFL games, with a magpie logo on it, I get why that annoyed Collingwood.

Port have also stopped using the Magpies logo in the SANFL.

Like I said, I can see both sides. Port 100% should be able to celebrate their heritage and wear the prison bars once a year.

However, the reality is Port entered the league Collingwood was in, not the other way around. Black and white, the stripes (yes I know PBs are different but they’re still a variation of stripes), and the magpie was their identity, and they had a right to keep it. It’s pretty obvious that Port aren’t just trying to wear the heritage jumper once a year, they want to reclaim it as their identity, so I get why Collingwood would want to block it.

Port need to accept that they’re teal, black and white and the Power now. If they do that then I think there would be no issues with them wearing a heritage jumper once a year.

As crows supporter you obviously loathe port, which is completely acceptable. I loathe the crows.

What it means though is no matter what we do, you're going to pot port and go against them wherever possible such as on an issue like this.

 

[Saltiga]

Port certainly had an issue with it, but the argument was a club can wear whatever they want as long as it doesn’t clash, if that we’re true then no one should’ve prevented us wearing it.

For the record I think us not wearing was the right call. We shouldn’t have had our non-SA players running around in it.

There was a lot of outrage against the crows wearing the state jumper, much of it from non Port people too. It's a state jumper not a club jumper.

If the crows want to honor their heritage by wearing a different sanfl team jumper once per year say Sturt one year norwood the next and so on, I have absolutely no issue with that and would actually encourage it.

 

[Couch Coach]

From your own forum:

Toast #bringbackthebars - Our Heritage, Our History, Our Right! Part 2​

BBTB_Manifesto_DE2.pdf

What we want 1: We believe that the PAFC has the right to choose to wear a guernsey that is synonymous with its heritage and history in official AFL season games when it sees fit, in accordance with the rules set down by the AFL for team uniforms.

What we want 4: We do not recognise the need for a special case to be made for games against Collingwood at our own home ground.

So clearly it's not just about One heritage round or Two Showdown matches.
The Power want the PB for any AFL match including against Collingwood.

 

[Millky95]

Next weekend can't come fast enough so we can talk about how Richmond should wear yellow shorts with their clash strip instead of Port's fake/real history bollocks

 

[Soggy2112]

As crows supporter you obviously loathe port, which is completely acceptable. I loathe the crows.

What it means though is no matter what we do, you're going to pot port and go against them wherever possible such as on an issue like this.

Yeah I’m obviously biased against Port.

But I do believe you should be allowed to wear the prison bars as a heritage jumper.

I also believe that Collingwood have the right to claim black and white, and the Magpies as their identity in the AFL. They had it when Port chose to enter the league, and sport agreed to give it up.

If all Port wanted to do was wear the PBs once a year, I’d support it. But, that’s obviously not what you’re pushing for.

 

[Saltiga]

It's just our history of success which Collingwood is extremely bitter about hence the fight to prevent us from honouring our history. A record 4 champions of Australia titles....that's against all clubs including VFL clubs


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Port Adelaide Fibre Of Footy Long Sleeve Prison Bar Jumper​

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Description
Port Adelaide Fibre Of Footy Long Sleeve Prison Bar Jumper
The Vintage Football Jumper Company, in conjunction with Woolmark and the Port Adelaide Football Club, is proud to release a series of retrospective vintage jumpers 'The Heritage Collection'.
This edition is a stunning tribute to Port Adelaide Football Club’s 150-year history, steeped in tradition, success and heritage, the famous retrospective reproduction Port Adelaide woollen jumper worn as early as 1902 is an iconic piece of Port Adelaide Football Club folklore. The famous prison bar depiction is one of the most iconic, recognised and oldest football guernseys in Australia and made famous by club legends such as Ebert, Obst, Motley, Quinn, Williams, Cahill, Wanganeen and Hodges.
The Port Adelaide Football Club is the most successful league football club in Australia. It has won a record four Champions of Australia titles, a record 36 SANFL Premierships and an AFL Premiership. The merino wool in this Guernsey was grown by sheep grazing the Australian landscape, cared for by Australian farmers, and shorn and manufactured here in Australia.
The jumper features the traditional collar design, carries the synonymous Port Magpies woven badge, a commemorative inner back neckline canvas patch with all club premiership years and is a genuine collectible for all Port Adelaide diehards.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

It's just our history of success which Collingwood is extremely bitter about hence the fight to prevent us from honouring our history. A record 4 champions of Australia titles....that's against all clubs including VFL clubs


Port Store | Official Online Store of the Port Adelaide Football Club - Shopping Cart
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Port Adelaide Fibre Of Footy Long Sleeve Prison Bar Jumper​

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$250.00


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Description
Port Adelaide Fibre Of Footy Long Sleeve Prison Bar Jumper
The Vintage Football Jumper Company, in conjunction with Woolmark and the Port Adelaide Football Club, is proud to release a series of retrospective vintage jumpers 'The Heritage Collection'.
This edition is a stunning tribute to Port Adelaide Football Club’s 150-year history, steeped in tradition, success and heritage, the famous retrospective reproduction Port Adelaide woollen jumper worn as early as 1902 is an iconic piece of Port Adelaide Football Club folklore. The famous prison bar depiction is one of the most iconic, recognised and oldest football guernseys in Australia and made famous by club legends such as Ebert, Obst, Motley, Quinn, Williams, Cahill, Wanganeen and Hodges.
The Port Adelaide Football Club is the most successful league football club in Australia. It has won a record four Champions of Australia titles, a record 36 SANFL Premierships and an AFL Premiership. The merino wool in this Guernsey was grown by sheep grazing the Australian landscape, cared for by Australian farmers, and shorn and manufactured here in Australia.
The jumper features the traditional collar design, carries the synonymous Port Magpies woven badge, a commemorative inner back neckline canvas patch with all club premiership years and is a genuine collectible for all Port Adelaide diehards.

Yeah shit like this is exactly why Collingwood loathe to give an inch

 

[Billy ray]

Attention mods. Cleanup in aisle 4. Repeat clean up in aisle 4.