Just give Collingwood the cup.

[mysainters]

You seem to be acknowledging your own teams improvements since that day, while ignoring ours. Might I remind you that we just demolished the cats in a half of football, the same cats that you barely got over 2 weeks earlier. The cats have been the measuring stick of the AFL for the last 3-4 years, and we had them at 16 goals to 3 at one stage before we backed the pedal off.

I know this means little in terms of next weeks game, but it does show you one thing. This is not the same Collingwood you used to have the wood over a year ago. Geelong had the wood over us then as well. We're playing a much harder, tougher brand of football now, as good as I've seen any modern day side play. And while you're struggling to win finals games (a narrow victory with the help of a dubious umpiring decision, then being well until half time last night), Collingwood have been winning theirs with little more than a half of football, followed by coasting to an easy victory. And we've been doing it against the same sides too. We hit Geelong with pressure right from the opening bounce, the like of which they've never seen (according to Matty Scarlett).

The only way St Kilda can win next week is if Collingwood play well below their abilities. If Collingwood bring their A game, you simply wont have the man power to beat them.

When I have ever disrepected Collingwood, or not acknowledged they are a very good side? I have simply highlighted area's I thought were relevant to this matchup.

Comparing how sides match up on other sides this year is irrelevant, you would understand this given you managed to lose to Brisbane this season, it means nothing in the context of the grand final.

Some would argue that our second half against Geelong would of been much of the same as the first, had the weather not changed and brought the pace down and effectively removed contested marking from the game.

Collingwood will be very, very tough to beat, but I know Ross Lyon will certainly arm the players with the best possible tactics and matchups to give the boys their best shot at it.

If Collingwood play well below their abilities next week, let's hope it because the Saints haven't allowed them to.

I just can't comprehend 'the flags in the bag' attitude, but each to their own.

 

[FuManchu]

When I have ever disrepected Collingwood, or not acknowledged they are a very good side? I have simply highlighted area's I thought were relevant to this matchup.

Comparing how sides match up on other sides this year is irrelevant, you would understand this given you managed to lose to Brisbane this season, it means nothing in the context of the grand final.

Some would argue that our second half against Geelong would of been much of the same as the first, had the weather not changed and brought the pace down and effectively removed contested marking from the game.

Collingwood will be very, very tough to beat, but I know Ross Lyon will certainly arm the players with the best possible tactics and matchups to give the boys their best shot at it.

If Collingwood play well below their abilities next week, let's hope it because the Saints havne't allowed them to.

I just can't comprehend 'the flags in the bag' attitude, but each to their own.

If there is a 'flag in the bag' mentality, then its only by the moronic few and it would be echoed by a similar proportion of saints supporters. Both clubs have been to the big dance often enough to know nothing is in the bag until its in the bag.

 

[rose jam]

Seems to a few Carlton supporters in this thread. Hmmmm.

Yeah, can't handle that teams can get to a GF by drafting and staying under the salary cap

 

[Joffaboy]

If there is a 'flag in the bag' mentality, then its only by the moronic few and it would be echoed by a similar proportion of saints supporters. Both clubs have been to the big dance often enough to know nothing is in the bag until its in the bag.

Spot on.

Hawks had no chance of beating Geelong in 08 either as far as I can recall.

Collingwood deserve to be favourite as they have been the best team over the past three months, and have brought their form into the finals.

However next Saturday is another day.............

 

[Pies time is NOW]

Keep cool Pies fans.

We need to keep all our energy for Saturday not for loser teams like Carlton.

For once I agree with Robert Walls. Shocked

St.Kilda will be a much more challenging opponent than Geelong were.

Anyone who thinks this Saturday is a fait accompli, a cakewalk are in for a shock.

I have no doubt that this preseason Mick Malthouse and assistants devised a game plan or more specifically the tactic within it of the forward press to defeat Geelong.

As we saw on Saturday night it worked perfectly with Geelong players overwhelmed by the pressure across our half forward line as they tried to rebound from defence with there usual series of handballs.

St.Kilda are a different kettle of fish altogether.

They play a style of football not dissimilar to our own and will not be found out by trying to break the lines by going through the corridor like the Cats.

They prefer to go wide like us and hit up teammates on the lead, they are also very good at dictating the tempo of the game and denying the opposition the ball.

Last season they were the architects of the intense all field pressure that we have seen Collingwood replicate this year and eclipse but "saints footy" still requires respect.

Ross might be a toss but he's one of the best coaches in the AFL and has shown before he's very good in particular at identifying the weaknessess of his opposition and exposing them.

Mick Malthouse and his assistants must be at the top of there game and not allow Ross Lyon and his group to outcoach them.

Now let's take a look at the key St.Kilda players we'll hope to contain to win.

1.Nick Riewoldt
The saints best player and arguably the best in the league. For the saints to win they'll need him to fire and inspire his teammates to greatness. His influence must be contained. Expect multiple opponents to take him throughout the game due to his running power. Mick Malthouse's number 1 concern.

2.Brendan Goddard
Highly talented and versatile player who can play anywhere on the ground. Goddard is there number 1 playmaker and sets up a number of scoring opportunities for teammates. Is capable of kicking multiple goals himself. Mick Malthouse cannot afford to let him run free and do as he likes and must asign a tagger. Tyson Goldsack would appear an ideal matchup.

3.Lenny Hayes
Tough and courageous as they come and like Luke Ball sets the example for the others to follow. Leader of men. Has elite ability in a contested situation and just finds the footy. Will be going as hard in the last quarter as the first. Must be respected.

4.Leigh Montana
Much improved player who was awarded with AA selection this season.
Is a running machine who racks up high numbers of possessions. Good in close. Should not be underestimated.

5.Sam Fisher
There version of Nick Maxwell. Excellent reader of the play, who loves to setup forward thrusts from defence. There key defensive playmaker. Must not be allowed to roam free and unaccountable.

6.Nick Dal Santo
Similar to Didak in that he's highly skilled and very dangerous with ball in hand. One of there key playmakers. Looks like he'll enter the GF under an injury cloud but we'd be best to beware the injured player. Must not be allowed to much time and space.

7.Stephen Milne
We may not like him but as a small forward his career return of a 2 goal average puts him in elite company. Like Leon has been questioned about his ability to perform in finals but has kicked 5 goals in the last 2 games. Milne is a barometer for St.Kilda, when he's up and about the saints generally are as well. He'll be a constant concern come Saturday. Harry O'Brien has played on him in the past and has generally done a good job. Let's hope for a repeat performance come Saturday.

8.Jason Gram
Like Dal Santo may enter the GF under a little injury cloud. St.Kilda will be relying on Gram to breakdown the Collingwood forward press with his kicking skills and genuine foot speed off half back. Looms as a danger man after his impressive GF performance last year. His run must be contained.

9.Adam Schneider
The Schneiderman has a habit of kicking multiple goals against Collingwood. Was given to much freedom up forward the last time we played the saints in round 16(especially during the 3rd quarter) and if not for inaccurate kicking (4 behinds) his influence would have been felt far greater. Toovey would seem the logical matchup but he'll need to tighten the reigns this time around.

10.Sam Gilbert
There version of Harry O'Brien. Can play on bigs and smalls that provides St.Kilda will great versatility in defence. Agile big man who's a stong mark one who starts a lot of forward attacks off half back. Considered suspect under pressure so expect Macaffer to be given the job as a defensive forward on him again. Like Fisher must be made accountable.

Wildcard.Michael Gardiner
Has surprised most will a career resurgence during the last few seasons.
Was the most dominant ruckman on the ground last night and his 3rd quarter in particular was a highlight. Has only kicked the 10 goals for the season(Jolly 22) but has shown over the last few years the ability to push forward and kick a critical goal in a big game. Jolly and Brown must be mindful of this. Along with McEvoy will provide the Jolly/N.Brown combination with a few headaches, Jolly in particular will need to improve his output form Friday night when he only gathered the 4 touches, a performance that till now has gone unnoticed.

The final word

Make no mistake I'm confident we can win the premiership if we perform to the level of Friday night but we must guard against complacency and any notion that Saturday will see an automatic repeat of the Geelong game.

We must turn up fully prepared for the heat of a GF and remember St.Kilda have the experience and advantage of last season to draw on whilst it's likely only 3 or 4 of our 22 would have experienced the same.

All players must be prepared to scarifice themselves, there game for the betterment of the team and play to the structures that have served us so well all year.

They need to work hard for each other, to help out there teammates, not take a backwards step and be prepared to put there bodies on the line when it's there time to do so.

The moment we have been waiting for is almost upon us my friends.

We know there best is good enough.

They boys must simply now enter the field of battle on Saturday and deliver it.

Do that and the flag will be ours.

 

[mysainters]

If there is a 'flag in the bag' mentality, then its only by the moronic few and it would be echoed by a similar proportion of saints supporters. Both clubs have been to the big dance often enough to know nothing is in the bag until its in the bag.

Fair enough, I just happened to have a few of the said posters immediately pounce on my posts in this thread.

This game will be about limiting each others inside 50's and scoring shots IMO, and then which team converts with it's limited entry.

I am looking forward to it

 

[borgsta2006]

Keep cool Pies fans.

We need to keep all our energy for Saturday not for loser teams like Carlton.

For once I agree with Robert Walls. Shocked

St.Kilda will be a much more challenging opponent than Geelong were.

Anyone who thinks this Saturday is a fait accompli, a cakewalk are in for a shock.

I have no doubt that this preseason Mick Malthouse and assistants devised a game plan or more specifically the tactic within it of the forward press to defeat Geelong.

As we saw on Saturday night it worked perfectly with Geelong players overwhelmed by the pressure across our half forward line as they tried to rebound from defence with there usual series of handballs.

St.Kilda are a different kettle of fish altogether.

They play a style of football not dissimilar to our own and will not be found out by trying to break the lines by going through the corridor like the Cats.

They prefer to go wide like us and hit up teammates on the lead, they are also very good at dictating the tempo of the game and denying the opposition the ball.

Last season they were the architects of the intense all field pressure that we have seen Collingwood replicate this year and eclipse but "saints footy" still requires respect.

Ross might be a toss but he's one of the best coaches in the AFL and has shown before he's very good in particular at identifying the weaknessess of his opposition and exposing them.

Mick Malthouse and his assistants must be at the top of there game and not allow Ross Lyon and his group to outcoach them.

Now let's take a look at the key St.Kilda players we'll hope to contain to win.

1.Nick Riewoldt
The saints best player and arguably the best in the league. For the saints to win they'll need him to fire and inspire his teammates to greatness. His influence must be contained. Expect multiple opponents to take him throughout the game due to his running power. Mick Malthouse's number 1 concern.

2.Brendan Goddard
Highly talented and versatile player who can play anywhere on the ground. Goddard is there number 1 playmaker and sets up a number of scoring opportunities for teammates. Is capable of kicking multiple goals himself. Mick Malthouse cannot afford to let him run free and do as he likes and must asign a tagger. Tyson Goldsack would appear an ideal matchup.

3.Lenny Hayes
Tough and courageous as they come and like Luke Ball sets the example for the others to follow. Leader of men. Has elite ability in a contested situation and just finds the footy. Will be going as hard in the last quarter as the first. Must be respected.

4.Leigh Montana
Much improved player who was awarded with AA selection this season.
Is a running machine who racks up high numbers of possessions. Good in close. Should not be underestimated.

5.Sam Fisher
There version of Nick Maxwell. Excellent reader of the play, who loves to setup forward thrusts from defence. There key defensive playmaker. Must not be allowed to roam free and unaccountable.

6.Nick Dal Santo
Similar to Didak in that he's highly skilled and very dangerous with ball in hand. One of there key playmakers. Looks like he'll enter the GF under an injury cloud but we'd be best to beware the injured player. Must not be allowed to much time and space.

7.Stephen Milne
We may not like him but as a small forward his career return of a 2 goal average puts him in elite company. Like Leon has been questioned about his ability to perform in finals but has kicked 5 goals in the last 2 games. Milne is a barometer for St.Kilda, when he's up and about the saints generally are as well. He'll be a constant concern come Saturday. Harry O'Brien has played on him in the past and has generally done a good job. Let's hope for a repeat performance come Saturday.

8.Jason Gram
Like Dal Santo may enter the GF under a little injury cloud. St.Kilda will be relying on Gram to breakdown the Collingwood forward press with his kicking skills and genuine foot speed off half back. Looms as a danger man after his impressive GF performance last year. His run must be contained.

9.Adam Schneider
The Schneiderman has a habit of kicking multiple goals against Collingwood. Was given to much freedom up forward the last time we played the saints in round 16(especially during the 3rd quarter) and if not for inaccurate kicking (4 behinds) his influence would have been felt far greater. Toovey would seem the logical matchup but he'll need to tighten the reigns this time around.

10.Sam Gilbert
There version of Harry O'Brien. Can play on bigs and smalls that provides St.Kilda will great versatility in defence. Agile big man who's a stong mark one who starts a lot of forward attacks off half back. Considered suspect under pressure so expect Macaffer to be given the job as a defensive forward on him again. Like Fisher must be made accountable.

Wildcard.Michael Gardiner
Has surprised most will a career resurgence during the last few seasons.
Was the most dominant ruckman on the ground last night and his 3rd quarter in particular was a highlight. Has only kicked the 10 goals for the season(Jolly 22) but has shown over the last few years the ability to push forward and kick a critical goal in a big game. Jolly and Brown must be mindful of this. Along with McEvoy will provide the Jolly/N.Brown combination with a few headaches, Jolly in particular will need to improve his output form Friday night when he only gathered the 4 touches, a performance that till now has gone unnoticed.

The final word

Make no mistake I'm confident we can win the premiership if we perform to the level of Friday night but we must guard against complacency and any notion that Saturday will see an automatic repeat of the Geelong game.

We must turn up fully prepared for the heat of a GF and remember St.Kilda have the experience and advantage of last season to draw on whilst it's likely only 3 or 4 of our 22 would have experienced the same.

All players must be prepared to scarifice themselves, there game for the betterment of the team and play to the structures that have served us so well all year.

They need to work hard for each other, to help out there teammates, not take a backwards step and be prepared to put there bodies on the line when it's there time to do so.

The moment we have been waiting for is almost upon us my friends.

We know there best is good enough.

They boys must simply now enter the field of battle on Saturday and deliver it.

Do that and the flag will be ours.

+1
Brilliant, common sense filled post. We can do it, we are confident, but St. Kilda MUST be respected or we will pay dearly.

 

[Amber Guzzler]

Saints have won 4 of the last 5 meetings. Usually by choking the Pies run.

And Carlton used to win finals games. Point is, times change. At the moment, Collingwood is playing far better footy than the saints, and next Sat, it's the team that plays the best football that'll win, not the team who won 4 out of their last 5 outings. Who won between these 2 sided in 2009 will be completely irrelevant.

If that's the only reason you think the saints will win, then it doesn't appear you've thought it through very far.

 

[simba_]

speaking totally unbiased Collingwood should take it by 20, 30 points but an on-song, Riewoldt at 100% Saints will push them hard. but the richest, fittest (related) and most hated football club look pretty likely to start some kind of dynasty of their own, unless the wobbles kick in. sounds pretty man utd to me. gross.

 

[darkstranger]

Pies clear favourites; but they weren't two days ago.

They came out and played the game of their lives; Saints could do the same next week.

But Pies clear favourites.

????

 

[Pies time is NOW]

The last time there was as good a performance as Collingwoods in the first half of the Preliminary Final against Geelong, it was perfromed by this man.

Hendrix on guitar = Collingwood playing football.

 

[Amber Guzzler]

Gee whiz he was good at dodging the question of mine wasnt he?
I asked him and all pie fans if they are so confident of winning, when they last beat the saints in a final.
Like history has its edge the same goes with this game.
Hawks have geelongs measure in finals.
1989, 2000 and 2008.
pies have the crows measure in finals.
2002, 2008 and 2009.
brisbane have essendons measure in finals.
1996 and 2000.
brisbane have the pies measure in finals.
2002 and 2003.
essendon have the eagles where it counts in finals.
1990, 1993 and 2002.
pies have the power measure in finals.
2002 and 2003.
I can go on all day for ya.
saints have your measure in finals for the last 3 attempts you have had against them.

Thats my point here.
history is on their side.

And just to show you how pointless you point actually is, 3 days ago, you'd have had "Geelong have the pies measure" in that list also. The last 2 finals games the pies have played against the saints, the saints won because they were clearly the better team. This year, it appears that's no longer true.

 

[Amber Guzzler]

Are you basing a home and away game on what may happen?????

How about our form in the finals so far? We've slaughtered 2 teams they had difficulty beating.

The finals as you know are a different sort of game and this is where you have to perform, it comes to one last game and all it takes is some bad kicking, a couple of bad frees going against you, a little bit of doubt and nerves going little fray on your mob.

That could happen to either team. Obviously it doesn't give StKilda any advantage at this stage.

Just remember another thing........ riewoldt has kicked 10 goals against ur mob in the last 2 finals.
why would he fare any different.

Because the ball will be a long way from the saints forward line for most of the game.

because u beat them in rounds 16 when he was back after missing 11 weeks in a game that meant very little to his team and very much a bonus for u??????????

It made no difference. We beat them early by reducing their forward 50 entries. It wouldn't matter who they had in the forward line, if the ball's not down there, they wont be doing much.

 

[Darealrath]

Pies should win but you can't help but admire the way the saints have gone about it the last two years. I don't think they'll capitulate like Geelong.

 

[Amber Guzzler]

And they beat you in 2007 prelim as well.
Its taken you 4 years to get to grand final.
2006 week one dogs bowled u out.
2007 prelim final with cats.
2008 saints nowled u out.
2009 cats bowled u out again.
Not over analyzing anything as u guys have been there abouts for 5 years now, taking into consideration u still have members from the grand finals of 2002 and 2003.
The question was finally answered by a saints fan and ur last win against them was in 1966, lol.
Also what is funny is that the swans went in to the final two weeks ago against the dogs having not beaten them in victoria since 1987.
And it proved the difference again week two of finals.

That makes as much sense as saying "St Kilda played in last year's GF and choked, so they'll obviously choke again this year". Nothing more than senseless drivel.

 

[Amber Guzzler]

When I have ever disrepected Collingwood, or not acknowledged they are a very good side? I have simply highlighted area's I thought were relevant to this matchup.

Comparing how sides match up on other sides this year is irrelevant, you would understand this given you managed to lose to Brisbane this season, it means nothing in the context of the grand final.

Some would argue that our second half against Geelong would of been much of the same as the first, had the weather not changed and brought the pace down and effectively removed contested marking from the game.

Collingwood will be very, very tough to beat, but I know Ross Lyon will certainly arm the players with the best possible tactics and matchups to give the boys their best shot at it.

If Collingwood play well below their abilities next week, let's hope it because the Saints haven't allowed them to.

I just can't comprehend 'the flags in the bag' attitude, but each to their own.

I have no such attitude. I'm just simply pointing out that it's pointless to claim improvement in the saints line up without acknowledging the same in the pies line up. It's pointless to say "Riewoldt was unfit and Dal Santo was out" without also acknowledging that Cloke and Maxwell were out for the pies.

 

[BazzaTheBogan]

Haha saints fans, so arrogant, so bias, so blinded.

This is all that really needs to be said.

Eddie
Jones
Blake
Ray
Peke
Mcqwalter
Gwilt
Dawson
Dempster
Mcevoy
Kosi

 

[mysainters]

I have no such attitude. I'm just simply pointing out that it's pointless to claim improvement in the saints line up without acknowledging the same in the pies line up. It's pointless to say "Riewoldt was unfit and Dal Santo was out" without also acknowledging that Cloke and Maxwell were out for the pies.

I actually pointed out the over reliance on Roo when he returned, that was causing our forwardline not to function well.

We went to him inside 50 a ridiculous amount of times, to the point that even the papers ran with the stats. I don't believe it was about his fitness, it was about the midfielders no longer looking for the best option.

Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else?

 

[mysainters]

Haha saints fans, so arrogant, so bias, so blinded.

This is all that really needs to be said.

Eddie

He's your president, not ours.

 

[rose jam]

I actually pointed out the over reliance on Roo when he returned, that was causing our forwardline not to function well.

We went to him inside 50 a ridiculous amount of times, to the point that even the papers ran with the stats. I don't believe it was about his fitness, it was about the midfielders no longer looking for the best option.

there's another option?

 

[BazzaTheBogan]

He's your president, not ours.

Oh is it Eddy? Superstar sainter

 

[Gavin Excell]

St Kilda is probably the team best equipped to deal with Collingwoods game plan.

If they can keep it tight till half time they are a show. Expect a real dour macth with St kilda looking to slow the game down as much as possible but ultimately the best side - Collingwood - should pevail.

However for all the talk on here, in the end its money that talks and bull$hit walks. The fact Pies are $1.40 favourites is more pertinent than a million posts arguing the relative merits of the two teams.

I think it will be an intriguing grand final

 

[mysainters]

there's another option?

Lol, not bad.

I'll let you be the judge on Saturday.

 

[stfan]

Haha saints fans, so arrogant, so bias, so blinded.

This is all that really needs to be said.

Eddie
Jones
Blake
Ray
Peke
Mcqwalter
Gwilt
Dawson
Dempster
Mcevoy
Kosi

Ah, bogan by name and nature I see.

Lets see:

Most of that list have played in Grand Finals...Dempster will be playing in his 4th...

CJ is arguably the best tagger in the AFL.

Zac after being ill over Summer and losing weight has now nicely run into form over the last month. BBBH certainly did not like playing on him nor will Cloke.

Eddy (not Eddie) is young and has really stepped up on late.

Gwilt is now established and a sperb kick...almost as good as BJ on occasions.

Big Ben, has been getting better and better and wit gardi forms a superior ruck combo to Jolly/Brown.

Blake does his job = Mr Reliable.

Peake in the last half of the season has tuned into "saints Footy"..and if you had actually watched his games over the last two months you would know that he has been excellent for us.

Kosi is doing his role....which includes keeping Roo free.....

So that onlly leaves:
ray who is agood running link player...


....and yes Mini who has been quie of late.

 

[Nardz]

Not too dissimilar to jimthegreat, I think the game is one of 2 halves (yeah yeah I know that's stating the obvious but bear with me). Here are the facts based on the home and away season:

• Pies have won 18 of 22 1st halves this year whilst Saints have won 10 of 22.
  
• Saints have won 15 of 22 2nd halves whilst Pies have won 13 of 22.

Based on that, I have my money invested in the following bet:

1. Pies to outscore Saints in the 1st half.
   
2. Saints to outscore Pies in the 2nd half.

Not sure who will win but me thinks that if the Saints can stay with the Pies in the 1st half and not be trailing by too much, they can take them in the 2nd half.

If you want to delve a little further into the stats, playing styles etc... the Saints have won 15 of 22 last quarters with the Pies breaking even at 11 wins / losses over 22 last quarters.

Hence you can see why I think the Saints can win if they are close to the Pies at half time.

Having said all that, I tipped the Pies to win the flag at the start of the finals and don't see any reason why they can't win. I do feel dirty for having done so though

I'm hoping the Saints can win though.

Go Tiges

stats can often be misleading.

a lot of the second halves we've lost would be in games where we've had a comfortable half time lead.

this year we have often not been putting teams away. seems that once we've got the result under control we usually take our foot off the gas.

i'm not sure the point of all the debating between pies and saints fans on here....

neither is going to back down and concede defeat. everyone is obviously going to be hopeful of a win on saturday and will justify why it will happen.