Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
I’ll probably regret asking, but what’s with the JL2 thing?
Nothing sinister. JL was/is Justin Langer. JL2 is our guy.I’ll probably regret asking, but what’s with the JL2 thing?
Like the points you have made about our game plan and lack of coaching nous, how about getting Mark Williams next year as the main assistant to help with tatics/stratergy etcNothing sinister. JL was/is Justin Langer. JL2 is our guy.
Still leaves the question, but what’s with the JL2 thing?Nothing sinister. JL was/is Justin Langer. JL2 is our guy.
If we "got worked out", how did we win any games after that point? The devil is in the detail and bland labels like "getting worked out" aren't really that accurate in painting a picture.Fair call, I agree with that too. Yours was just the last post I remembered so quoted yours. As I said it wasn't just aimed at you.
I agree and don't think last year was a fluke.
But I also agree with G Mus when he said Collingwood showed our level by the end of the year.
Both can exist in the same universe. We were a good team, then we got worked out and became an average one.
If we "got worked out", how did we win any games after that point? The devil is in the detail and bland labels like "getting worked out" aren't really that accurate in painting a picture.
15 wins 1 draw and 6 losses in 22 regular season games. Get that win loss record, that's top 4 most years. We got 5th. Win a final last season. Not bad.I’m sorry, that’s just rubbish, we lost like 7 games for the whole year including that final and knocked off a few very good teams away. We were a good team last year by almost any metric
Thanks for the enlightening posts on the 2022 game plan becoming worked out, and JL2s inability to devise a counterstrategy.
I ask those with more footy tactical nous than me…
How exactly did Mitchell and Longmire pick our game plan apart last year? I was at Optus for both games and couldn’t observe the tactical patterns. All I noticed was Sydney picking us apart with short kicking (lots of 15m type kicks).
Thanks in advance if anyone can shed some light on it.
Still leaves the question, but what’s with the JL2 thing?
Sydney denied us possession. Hawthorn brought pressure and forced turnover. Carlton's midfield outbodied and outpressured our midfield.Thanks for the enlightening posts on the 2022 game plan becoming worked out, and JL2s inability to devise a counterstrategy.
I ask those with more footy tactical nous than me…
How exactly did Mitchell and Longmire pick our game plan apart last year? I was at Optus for both games and couldn’t observe the tactical patterns. All I noticed was Sydney picking us apart with short kicking (lots of 15m type kicks).
Thanks in advance if anyone can shed some light on it.
How often do you get them confused? No one's getting confused on a Justin Longmuir specific topic though are they? Seems suspiciously like a way to just have a quasi dismissive dig.For me it's just habit as one of my closest mates is a mad cricket and Freo fan and we've adopted his use of JL and JL2 to differentiate.
The first thing the commentators said last night after the game was that it was "their system". You could see that last night even when the Crows were 50 points up with a minute to play and Rankine still ran 20 metres in a sprint to force the Blues player to kick under pressure and out on the full. A lot of teams have a similar system but it is the execution and buy in from the players that determines success. If you win a couple then all of a sudden everyone is up and about and the system is lauded by everyone but if you lose 2 or 3 like where we are now the players start to second guess themselves and the system and it all goes pear shaped.Thanks Wobbly Punt and Bigger for the great replies.
In short, perhaps we rely on a highly systemised and controlled game plan, which has had its shortcomings exposed. The situation is made worse by potentially a stubborn and conservative head coach, and a lack of experienced assistants to challenge his thinking and to help recalibrate the game plan.
Meanwhile the other leading teams play in a style aimed at collectively harnessing the creativity and attacking instincts of individuals, making us look badly out of touch with the prevailing trends.
Sounds a more accurate picture (although average age is a rolled gold factor in w/l too).We have a more talented list than most other teams so that helps. There's also a big difference between knowing what to do and being able to execute it. Plus you need to factor in some teams won't deviate from their own styles either because they're trying to build a list/strategy or believe their style would win out and it doesn't.
Wouldn't the coachs' qualities also have a pivotal role in getting to such a strong position that even with the supposed shortcomings of the plan, finished in an overachieving 5th and won a final?Thanks Wobbly Punt and Bigger for the great replies.
In short, perhaps we rely on a highly systemised and controlled game plan, which has had its shortcomings exposed. The situation is made worse by potentially a stubborn and conservative head coach, and a lack of experienced assistants to challenge his thinking and to help recalibrate the game plan.
Meanwhile the other leading teams play in a style aimed at collectively harnessing the creativity and attacking instincts of individuals, making us look badly out of touch with the prevailing trends.
this was the succinct way of putting it! In short, we have to get with the times. Because, we have the personnel to do it and we have the personnel to win more than not if we progress in the right mannerThanks Wobbly Punt and Bigger for the great replies.
In short, perhaps we rely on a highly systemised and controlled game plan, which has had its shortcomings exposed. The situation is made worse by potentially a stubborn and conservative head coach, and a lack of experienced assistants to challenge his thinking and to help recalibrate the game plan.
Meanwhile the other leading teams play in a style aimed at collectively harnessing the creativity and attacking instincts of individuals, making us look badly out of touch with the prevailing trends.
Our run of games over the next two months is rather ugly.
lose this one and his head is about to drop into a basket
If you see it that way that's your issue and not mine really mate. As I said, its habit for me and I swap emails with my mate much more than post on here so its ingrained for us now. J-Lo is terrible (and also taken) and Longmuir just takes longer to type. I'm being lazy, not disparaging in it's use.How often do you get them confused? No one's getting confused on a Justin Longmuir specific topic though are they? Seems suspiciously like a way to just have a quasi dismissive dig.
If you were genuinely worried about confusion, why not "JLo" or even "Longmuir"? I mean, preferencing a #1 ticket holder at the wc...
Wow WP that is a great summation of our game plan problems, keep up the good workI can't take credit for it as very little of this is from my tactical nous but from someone I know who's paid to work it out and has talked to me about it over summer. I've mentioned it before a bit but the main ones opposition coaches used last year were either running (Hawks, Collingwood, Melbourne) or possessing (Sydney, Melbourne) their way through our up ground defensive setup which leaves holes further back. They also allow us to maintain numerical advantages a kick behind the ball contest and instead have their numbers advantage at or near the ball contest. At stoppages around midfield or nudging toward our forward area you'll also see defenders of our forwards sag off our guys and away from the goals allowing our setup down there at non CBA stoppages to clog the space ourselves. Our guys set up in dangerous leading lanes for some reason thus doing the KP defenders work for them. Then if they win the stoppage contest our forwards are now behind their defenders as they push forward giving numerical advantage and overlap.
Our ball movement via short possession was slowed by cutting off the paths and players we were most commonly using in scoring chains and instead making us use second/third options in terms of both the angles and also the players we could find open. Get the ball in the hands of those less likely to choose or be able to execute the tough kicks. We then clog our own space with the time it takes us to move it forward. Since this one was pointed out to me I think I've seen teams push hard to cover a Clark, Cox, Mundy (last year obviously), Young, or Aish etc but give more space to a Ryan, Pearce, Brodie, Hughes, Banfield type. Ball in those hands slows us much more than when the other guys have it. Maybe that's confirmation bias in my eyes after being told about it but maybe it is what is happening. This one is not always able to be achieved in the cut and thrust of the contest so sometimes we get the sugar hit of our style looking unstoppable as it did a few times early in the Derby and also at times against Adelaide.
It seems to me those passages of play where it works so well are why we remain committed to an otherwise potentially failing plan because those implementing it and wanting it to work will see it as proof the plan works and its the players not executing well enough when we can't move it. That could explain just about every JL2 presser this year.
More proof is JL2 advocating the effectiveness of his system and blaming the players again by saying our numbers in metres gained via handball are amongst the best in the league and match the top teams. This ignores the fact the metres gained by handball stat includes the dump kick forward to a contest we lose possession or in to empty space up forward. The kick after a chain of handballs is included in the metres gained stat. Whereas those actually doing it well (like Adelaide last night) maintain possession further up but the handball metres gained possession restarts after a kick. Classic example of this was in our game with the Crows last week. We would clear the contest with a few good handballs but then find pressure and kick long to space or to a contest we'd lose or miss the target. The last kick would be measured in the stat even though we'd lose possession. On the flip side the Crows would handball out of the contest and more often a Dawson type would be the last player and kick to a Crow. Same handball metres gained but they kept it. To some extent JL2 blaming the players has some merit because the skills execution was different for sure. You could also say the Crows were set up better up the ground to give their guys a better chance of hitting a target because they had multiple options where we'd have Tabs/Walters only which is easier to defend.
What we remained good at last year is defending against turnovers because of our ability and setup defensively but the fact teams began to run or possess through our setup limited the biggest advantage we had early last year which was creating turnovers and then scores from turnover. About 1/3 of the way through the year we were streets ahead in both those. By years end back in the pack. This year we haven't returned to the heights we had at one point last year and remain OK.
In something more positive, our start to the year is looking slightly better each week that Adelaide & St Kilda keep performing as they are. No excuses for the North debacle where we were horribly outcoached using last years book on us but the Saints and Adelaide performances look better now than they did at the time. In line with that our "tougher" upcoming section with Geelong, Bulldogs, Richmond etc may not be as hard as first thought to claw some ground back in.
Sounds a more accurate picture (although average age is a rolled gold factor in w/l too).
But then with all that how do we separate out what it was?
Say we take Richmond away as an example. Were they equally as talented + equal execution, more talented but less capable, or good execution poor talent comparison? Coach didn't get it right? Off night?