Coach Justin Longmuir

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Joao said:
Talent =/= ability.

Talent is the potential for ability and whilst we have a couple of holes, the potential for ability is equal/higher than any other team we've had. Doesn't mean they'll actually become that good. That said, how many times have we finished 5th or better? By that metric, they're already about the 4th best team we've had and most of the team is a few years off their prime.
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Ability = talent + footy iq (or just a good footy brain)
 
Good for the coach and the team to get a win on the weekend. It leaves a lot of questions open but was good for the soul and confidence in the end.

In terms of JL2 it's not going to be one game that proves anything so it'll be interesting to see if this was a better list and coach overcoming lessor ones or the start of a good correction and re-launch in terms of our performances. This Friday will add weight to concern or confidence but again

There was something in this GC game for JL2's biggest supporters and biggest critics.

His supporters would rightly say it was great to get a win after being under the pump so much and correct the gameplan to such an extent we dominated the second half so much. Many are critical of his lack of response and lack of ability to correct things when they go wrong and this showed his ability to do just that as did the Melbourne game and the Bulldogs final last year. Those games and this one showed he can respond and adjust and we can score well so everything should be fine if we give him a chance.

Critics will say the start was clear evidence of a gameplan that still doesn't work and we started like crap yet again which has been going on for so long the coach has to take the blame for it. They'd also point out he said in the post-match that he saw what Gold Coast were doing and told our guys to do that so he didn't actually come up with anything and instead just saw our plan sucked and instead copied Dew's and we took over from there. He was therefore initially out coached by a potentially average to bad coach so we should still be on high alert.

The truth, as always, is somewhere in the middle.

FWIW I think the bad start had less to do with coaching than with skill errors. I re-watched the first quarter and counted 5 times just in the first 20mins or so when we were running clear with the ball from a clearance or centre bounce and missed a leading target badly under no kicking pressure. Tis deprived us of shots on goals and all of them were turnovers, not even contests after the miss. At the same time GC missed only once and instead kept themselves in it early by hitting their targets. That's not really the coaches fault. Nor is Schultz missing a easy shot which would have bought us to within 5pts but instead resulted in a goal the other end which gave them a real shot and hurt us badly.

I would suggest starting a half fit Luke Ryan on Lukosius and then making a move that essentially left him free to roam and dominate was poor coaching. However I'm only going off the commentary that Ryan did actually start on Lukosius and this may not have happened so I won't be too critical of the first part without knowing for sure if it happened.

Playing clearly unfit players in Ryan and Switta is really average given the state of our list at the moment. No excuses there.

On the positives though 100pts, 9 goals in a half, Serong, Darcy/Jackson, Sturt getting a run, Walters, Johnson, Brodie and some other things like winning without high impact from Brayshaw were all great.

Hopefully it is the start of the turnaround and not a dead cat bounce. I thought we were more aggressive with the ball for much of the game, even early on when struggling so that was good. It didn't always work as poor Wags showed but I'd rather go down doing that than watching Ryan and Cox get 15 marks a piece each week by kicking sideways to each other.

Thursday's selections will be important. If Sturt and Wagner go out after only playing 1 game and coming in after almost a full month with no game action for them then that'll be really poor. Both should be given 3 weeks minimum after making the call to bring them in. I'm pretty sure that'll happen too.
 
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GingerDocker said:
I would just like to know why we seem to play completely differently towards the end of our games than at the beginning?

It's doing my ******* head in.
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It is almost comical at this point really given how long it's been going on, someone said we'd won 6 of like 22 last 1st quarters or something ridiculous? That's an absurd record given the results of last year and it's carried on this year.
 
Wobbly Punt said:
Good for the coach and the team to get a win on the weekend. It leaves a lot of questions open but was good for the soul and confidence in the end.

In terms of JL2 it's not going to be one game that proves anything so it'll be interesting to see if this was a better list and coach overcoming lessor ones or the start of a good correction and re-launch in terms of our performances. This Friday will add weight to concern or confidence but again

There was something in this GC game for JL2's biggest supporters and biggest critics.

His supporters would rightly say it was great to get a win after being under the pump so much and correct the gameplan to such an extent we dominated the second half so much. Many are critical of his lack of response and lack of ability to correct things when they go wrong and this showed his ability to do just that as did the Melbourne game and the Bulldogs final last year. Those games and this one showed he can respond and adjust and we can score well so everything should be fine if we give him a chance.

Critics will say the start was clear evidence of a gameplan that still doesn't work and we started like crap yet again which has been going on for so long the coach has to take the blame for it. They'd also point out he said in the post-match that he saw what Gold Coast were doing and told our guys to do that so he didn't actually come up with anything and instead just saw our plan sucked and instead copied Dew's and we took over from there. He was therefore initially out coached by a potentially average to bad coach so we should still be on high alert.

The truth, as always, is somewhere in the middle.

FWIW I think the bad start had less to do with coaching than with skill errors. I re-watched the first quarter and counted 5 times just in the first 20mins or so when we were running clear with the ball from a clearance or centre bounce and missed a leading target badly under no kicking pressure. Tis deprived us of shots on goals and all of them were turnovers, not even contests after the miss. At the same time GC missed only once and instead kept themselves in it early by hitting their targets. That's not really the coaches fault. Nor is Schultz missing a easy shot which would have bought us to within 5pts but instead resulted in a goal the other end which gave them a real shot and hurt us badly.

I would suggest starting a half fit Luke Ryan on Lukosius and then making a move that essentially left him free to roam and dominate was poor coaching. However I'm only going off the commentary that Ryan did actually start on Lukosius and this may not have happened so I won't be too critical of the first part without knowing for sure if it happened.

Playing clearly unfit players in Ryan and Switta is really average given the state of our list at the moment. No excuses there.

On the positives though 100pts, 9 goals in a half, Serong, Darcy/Jackson, Sturt getting a run, Walters, Johnson, Brodie and some other things like winning without high impact from Brayshaw were all great.

Hopefully it is the start of the turnaround and not a dead cat bounce. I thought we were more aggressive with the ball for much of the game, even early on when struggling so that was good. It didn't always work as poor Wags showed but I'd rather go down doing that than watching Ryan and Cox get 15 marks a piece each week by kicking sideways to each other.

Thursday's selections will be important. If Sturt and Wagner go out after only playing 1 game and coming in after almost a full month with no game action for them then that'll be really poor. Both should be given 3 weeks minimum after making the call to bring them in. I'm pretty sure that'll happen too.
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The thing that gives me a bit more confidence in that hopefully something has been figured out is JOM saying they've been too scared of making mistakes. It feels like the 2nd half was a reflection of them just saying **** it, back ourselves in. MASSIVE game on Friday
 
Snuffaluphagus said:
It is almost comical at this point really given how long it's been going on, someone said we'd won 6 of like 22 last 1st quarters or something ridiculous? That's an absurd record given the results of last year and it's carried on this year.
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You wish it was 6/22. It's 3/20 I think.
 

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As Ross used to say, its always about the midfield. Sorry, not sorry.
Brodie was a big reason we started to play better, he was winning clearances, and then Brayshaw got on his bike. Sorry
Serong as well, he has really been our best player last 3 weeks.
And Darcy started smashing that young kid.
 
It’s a credit to JL that he can react in-game and get the team playing well after QT, but the slow starts are killing us.

In many ways he’s the anti-Ross. Always felt we’d have hot starts under Ross then slowly get ground down until we lost. Worst game for that was the 2014 semi. Texts from friends saying “wow Freo are dominating” and me sitting there sadly thinking “it’s not enough”.
 
Snuffaluphagus said:
The thing that gives me a bit more confidence in that hopefully something has been figured out is JOM saying they've been too scared of making mistakes. It feels like the 2nd half was a reflection of them just saying * it, back ourselves in. MASSIVE game on Friday
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Yep, more grist for the mill on either side of the coaching argument too isn't it.

One side "See it was the players, JOM said as much, they were scared and uncertain and so it's been on them all along as Longmuir has been saying". Could be right.

Other side "The players were scared of making mistakes because of a lack of faith in the game plan and when they made mistakes players were getting canned rather than coached". Could be right.

You're right, Friday is massive. In a way a loss would be more damaging than a win would be restorative. That's because we probably SHOULD win but there's no doubt a win would be great given how great those guys CAN be. Lots of pressure on both the coaches and teams.

Honestly I wouldn't swap JL2 for LB given the list he's had at the Dogs. I think he's wasted it in the last few years but many would say "he's made a GF and they were right in it" and they'd be right. Not sure that makes up for it in my mind though. No way that list should have almost missed the finals last season and it definitely should have been top 4 at least once or twice in the last 5 seasons.
 
Wobbly Punt said:
Yep, more grist for the mill on either side of the coaching argument too isn't it.

One side "See it was the players, JOM said as much, they were scared and uncertain and so it's been on them all along as Longmuir has been saying". Could be right.

Other side "The players were scared of making mistakes because of a lack of faith in the game plan and when they made mistakes players were getting canned rather than coached". Could be right.

You're right, Friday is massive. In a way a loss would be more damaging than a win would be restorative. That's because we probably SHOULD win but there's no doubt a win would be great given how great those guys CAN be. Lots of pressure on both the coaches and teams.

Honestly I wouldn't swap JL2 for LB given the list he's had at the Dogs. I think he's wasted it in the last few years but many would say "he's made a GF and they were right in it" and they'd be right. Not sure that makes up for it in my mind though. No way that list should have almost missed the finals last season and it definitely should have been top 4 at least once or twice in the last 5 seasons.
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I’m not sure, I think a win against the Dogs will calm a lot of people thinking we were bottom 4 locks and it’s the end of the world and building off one good half of footy would do a lot as well.

I just want to get out of the year without giving Melbourne a stupid high pick at this stage haha
 
Snuffaluphagus said:
I’m not sure, I think a win against the Dogs will calm a lot of people thinking we were bottom 4 locks and it’s the end of the world and building off one good half of footy would do a lot as well.

I just want to get out of the year without giving Melbourne a stupid high pick at this stage haha
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We will come home with a wet sail.
 
Snuffaluphagus said:
I’m not sure, I think a win against the Dogs will calm a lot of people thinking we were bottom 4 locks and it’s the end of the world and building off one good half of footy would do a lot as well.

I just want to get out of the year without giving Melbourne a stupid high pick at this stage haha
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I think we can scrape into the bottom of the 8 if some 50/50 games go our way, but losing to North was a massive blow to those chances. North look destined for bottom four.
 
Snuffaluphagus said:
I’m not sure, I think a win against the Dogs will calm a lot of people thinking we were bottom 4 locks and it’s the end of the world and building off one good half of footy would do a lot as well.

I just want to get out of the year without giving Melbourne a stupid high pick at this stage haha
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This.

I can handle having an off season...maybe we over-achieved last season? Improvement is not linear, look at Melbourne's journey to their premiership, blah, blah, blah.

But the thought of handing over a top ten pick, plus last years first to those silver spooned pricks, really gives me the shits.
 
Snuffaluphagus said:
I’m not sure, I think a win against the Dogs will calm a lot of people thinking we were bottom 4 locks and it’s the end of the world and building off one good half of footy would do a lot as well.

I just want to get out of the year without giving Melbourne a stupid high pick at this stage haha
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Yeah that's true about calming the doomsayers. I wasn't one of those as I always believed our talent would get us past enough sides that bottom 4 wasn't likely. My concern was, and still is, that 10-12 range is actually worse and that remains my concern and why a win won't assuage those concerns that much. I think 10-12 or so might be worse because if JL2 isn't the guy that's maybe not bad enough to make a move and may extend any damage whereas bottom 4 might force a move.

It'll take a longer run of good form to ease my concerns in that area. But yes, the mediots and those panicking about bottom 4 would quieten down a bit.

I was talking about the high pick for Melbourne on the weekend with a mate and made the point that our pick is gone so there's no real point worrying about it. Jackson's showing he's worth it in my view - maybe still more on potential than output but either way if its a top 4 pick for them then so be it, we would still get draught benefit. If it is top 4 then we need to remember that all our other picks in other rounds will be too so we haven't given it all away and have that value along with maybe a new coach as well if it gets that bad.

The first pick is gone so no point worrying about it in my opinion but I get the notion that Melbourne get a high one and they're already good wouldn't be great.
 
royale with cheese said:
I think we can scrape into the bottom of the 8 if some 50/50 games go our way, but losing to North was a massive blow to those chances. North look destined for bottom four.
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Yeah, as it stands, that remains the only game we've royally ****ed up at this stage, the Adelaide and Saints games can be forgiven. Will be interesting to see who finishes bottom 4 because I'd imagine GC, WC and Hawks have three of the spots close to sewn up the way they are playing most weeks. I think the last spot will be between North and GWS
 
royale with cheese said:
I think we can scrape into the bottom of the 8 if some 50/50 games go our way, but losing to North was a massive blow to those chances. North look destined for bottom four.
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Not even sure I’f we win this week..

Reckon as we adjust and tweak our game style a bit, we see the benefits late in the year.

To make finals we need to try grind these games out and beat Bullies, Hawks and Tigers at home coming up:
 
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