Coach Justin Longmuir

[Dockeroo]

Firstly, Menegola and Collins were delisted and spent a year in the lower league before being picked up so a totally different scenario to what you're suggesting i.e., that a club comes hard at him in trade period to prise him off us. Plus, both openly admitted that the delisting and the year in the lower league helped them realise the work that needed doing. Sturt is getting that lesson now with us.

Secondly, if a club did come for him of course it would be an easy choice for him, especially as he'd be going home. And if that happened I wouldn't blame him but I also wouldn't blame the club and he wouldn't either. The club has done the best by him, I suspect he knows that.
I personally don't think a club will go too hard at trying to trade him.

There may be a dozen or so examples of what you're suggested may happen but there's a s**t load more examples of players being overrated by their fans only to be proven wrong in the end.

At best we will offer him a one year deal. Unless he comes in and plays every game.
I think we can both agree on that? Probably on base wages too.

It won’t take much for a club in Melbourne to offer him an extra 30 or 40k for the year and a promise of more AFL gametime for him to be off. In that scenario we won’t be getting a draft pick for him. Maybe a F4 for formality purposes.

Your original post said “why wouldnt he be here in 2025?”
I think that he will only still be here if he’s playing games at AFL level between now and then. It’s the way the industry works. We aren’t going to keep a 23 or 24 year old that could be playing at AFL level elsewhere down at peel. Even the WCE might look at him. He’d easily get a game for them right now.

 

[WilloTree]

I made this point in the predictions thread but happy to say again here that Bailey had a pretty solid game, I'm not calling for his head this week.

I don't know that it's the sort of game that requires us to eat crow though - he didn't set the world on fire. This whole conversation isn't something that gets solved by one good or bad game anyway. We'll only know which camp should be putting their hand up at the end of the season.

Ultimately I still think our team will be better in both the short and long term if BB is playing at Peel and Sturt playing in the 1s but happy for Bailey to run out against Geelong

Hang on. Why does he have to "set the world on fire"? That's ridiculous. Banfield is in the 22-25th player on the list, drafted off the Rookie List. His job is to come in when needed, and play his role with some level of consistency. Here are his stats for his games this year minus the game he was subbed off R1.



I'd say he's consistently performing at or above the level we would expect, which is a country mile from the expectations some on this board place on him.

I can see him making way for others who go past him (or for Fyfe) but for now I'm very comfortable with his output this year.

I'm just glad we're not all deathriding him anymore. That was painful.

 

[King Huskii]

Hang on. Why does he have to "set the world on fire"? That's ridiculous. Banfield is in the 22-25th player on the list, drafted off the Rookie List. His job is to come in when needed, and play his role with some level of consistency. Here are his stats for his games this year minus the game he was subbed off R1.

View attachment 1688266

I'd say he's consistently performing at or above the level we would expect, which is a country mile from the expectations some on this board place on him.

I can see him making way for others who go past him (or for Fyfe) but for now I'm very comfortable with his output this year.

I'm just glad we're not all deathriding him anymore. That was painful.

But he's not needed

 

[Scham]

At best we will offer him a one year deal. Unless he comes in and plays every game.
I think we can both agree on that? Probably on base wages too.

It won’t take much for a club in Melbourne to offer him an extra 30 or 40k for the year and a promise of more AFL gametime for him to be off. In that scenario we won’t be getting a draft pick for him. Maybe a F4 for formality purposes.

Your original post said “why wouldnt he be here in 2025?”
I think that he will only still be here if he’s playing games at AFL level between now and then. It’s the way the industry works. We aren’t going to keep a 23 or 24 year old that could be playing at AFL level elsewhere down at peel. Even the WCE might look at him. He’d easily get a game for them right now.

This conversation could've taken place last year, and here we are 12 months on and he's still contracted to Freo. No clubs came for him and he didn't want to leave us. He accepted our 1 year offer.

Other clubs may want him this year, we'll see what happens at years end. I hope he works his way back into the top side and plays well enough to stay there and we sign him up.

 

[WilloTree]

But he's not needed

What do you mean?

 

[SupermanCapes]

Hang on. Why does he have to "set the world on fire"? That's ridiculous. Banfield is in the 22-25th player on the list, drafted off the Rookie List. His job is to come in when needed, and play his role with some level of consistency. Here are his stats for his games this year minus the game he was subbed off R1.

View attachment 1688266

I'd say he's consistently performing at or above the level we would expect, which is a country mile from the expectations some on this board place on him.

I can see him making way for others who go past him (or for Fyfe) but for now I'm very comfortable with his output this year.

I'm just glad we're not all deathriding him anymore. That was painful.

Mate this is getting so boring. Stop sensationalising individual phrases I use and take a look at the overall message.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

I don't think Palmer was going to stop Hodge.

We had been going alright out of the centre for the 1st 3 qtrs of the game and Hawthorn needed to do something to try and budge the game their way ; so Hodge moves into the centre. At the same time Harvey decides Rhys Palmer would be better as a garden gnome in our forward pocket. Hawthorn pretty much won every centre clearance from that point on while Rhys was stuck in the pocket watching it unfold.
This was another classic example of Mark Harvey cutting his nose off to spite his face, something he had decided was the best way to entice Rhys to stay at Fremantle. To that point there had been no confirmation from Rhys that he was going to leave Fremantle but Mark Harvey thought he was so he decided to, ostensibly, exile him.
To address your comment re “Rhys stopping Hodge”, we never got the chance to try him. To add to the insanity of Harvey, he didn’t have anyone go to Hodge.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

what was his attitude with palmer?

Serious question ?

 

[Purple Jesus]

but you were ready to call for him to be sacked after a few rounds?

Yep. I’m an emotional campaigner.

 

[Docker82]

Where do we all sit with Longmuir now? Are we still calling for his head? Are we going to let it play out?

Honestly still think it's a top eight list we've got and anything much worse than that result he should be gone. We can a record of sacking underperforming coaches with one year left.

If we play like a top eight list for the rest of the year but miss the eight I'd probably be willing to accept we just had a poor start and wouldn't be disappointed with him coaching next year.

 

[Wobbly Punt]

Kudos to JL2 for the adjustments he's made. I was certainly one of those being critical (although I always wanted him to finish the year to see how it played out) and my view was all based on his complete inertia when it came adjusting to the AFL who had all adjusted to us and were cleaning us up. Now we see those adjustments are happening and it is super encouraging and I hope it continues and I hope it develops even further. It's been fun to watch.

This biggest smile I got out of the weekend other than the performance of Treacy was hearing what JL2 said at the quarter time interview. To paraphrase he said he'd told them "to work better at equalising numbers at the contest and stoppages". This is the main point I've been pushing in my criticism of him because its the main thing other coaches have been doing to expose us. To hear - for the first time - him talking specifically about an issue that was and has been plaguing us was fantastic. It means they've seen it and now instead of letting our guys hold position a kick away and have the oppo outnumber us at the contest run it past and over us, we've identified that's its numbers around the contest and not effort that has been costing us there. The fact we're doing something about it is unreal. I don't mind it's taken longer than I'd have liked, I just care that it has happened.

The gameplan was our single biggest issue with the coaching in my opinion. We'd been worked out and were getting beaten as a result. Now, green shoots of evidence say we might have come up with a counter to that which is great. It'll be even better if it continues to grow and is successful this week but even if we do lose against the Cats but we continue to develop this updated plan it'll be good news.

Credit to JL2 for the updated plan and long may it continue and develop.

For those looking at the last 2 games and seeing them as proof that BB is B22 then I'm honestly happy for you. I'd prefer us to get better but if that's good enough for you then great. If you're happy to play him each week because "others were worse than him" then that's fine. I'd rather we look to be better than below average but it's a discussion that can't be advanced when one side of it is simply "I like what he does" even when the facts say he isn't doing it very often at all. I'm not about the BB v Sturt argument, to me its always been about differing standards in team selections. That remains.

The much bigger and more important issue is we may have seen some real development in our gameplan coming from a coach who'd put a huge question mark on his own head and that is really exciting.

 

[estibador]

Honestly still think it's a top eight list we've got and anything much worse than that result he should be gone. We can a record of sacking underperforming coaches with one year left.

If we play like a top eight list for the rest of the year but miss the eight I'd probably be willing to accept we just had a poor start and wouldn't be disappointed with him coaching next year.

We certainly have a top 8 potential list and higher, but we're playing an extremely young team every week.

We actually overachieved quite a bit last year given the demographic of the team, and historically speaking it would be overachieving even more this year given we're even younger again. We're fielding one of the youngest teams in the comp every week - that sort of demographic usually sees teams finish bottom 4 while getting spanked every second week.

But list demographics aside - I'd all but lost faith earlier in the season due to the way we were playing, but the fact JLo seems to have managed to turn that around and get us playing high intensity, flowing football again has started to win me back.

Last year was enough to show he's no dud (the Drums and Neelds of the coaching world don't overachieve with a list like that) and the turnaround in gamestyle this year has given me some confidence that he's neither lost the players, nor that he ever intended us to revert to that stodgy playing style earlier in the year.

History is filled with example of young teams who took one step back before taking two forward - and who achieved success after sticking with the same coach during the step back - so I'm inclined to back JLo in for next year.

 

[Docker82]

We certainly have a top 8 potential list and higher, but we're playing an extremely young team every week.

We actually overachieved quite a bit last year given the demographic of the team, and historically speaking it would be overachieving even more this year given we're even younger again. We're fielding one of the youngest teams in the comp every week - that sort of demographic usually sees teams finish bottom 4 while getting spanked every second week.

But list demographics aside - I'd all but lost faith earlier in the season due to the way we were playing, but the fact JLo seems to have managed to turn that around and get us playing high intensity, flowing football again has started to win me back.

Last year was enough to show he's no dud (the Drums and Neelds of the coaching world don't overachieve with a list like that) and the turnaround in gamestyle this year has given me some confidence that he's neither lost the players, nor that he ever intended us to revert to that stodgy playing style earlier in the year.

History is filled with example of young teams who took one step back before taking two forward - and who achieved success after sticking with the same coach during the step back - so I'm inclined to back JLo in for next year.

The second part of your third paragraph is why I was so frustrated a few weeks ago. We’ve been better since the Brisbane game - I didn’t expect us to play a new style well the first week on one of the toughest road trips in footy.

Anyway if we play the style we’ve played the last three games I’m happy enough for him to stay next year. I’m confident if we do that we win around 50% of our remaining games and finish just outside the eight. If we revert back to what we did so poorly the first month at any point for the rest of the season then I think JL should be sacked - it was that bad imo.

 

[greatgatsby]

Agree with most of this. I was most disconcerted by the coach's propensity in the early weeks to blame the players for the turgid results ('we're not executing well'). Perhaps it's because he's still so nervous in his communication, but I would have liked him to have owned some of those outcomes a little more and admitted he was still developing his own (coaching) game. The contrast with McRae, for instance, is still stark in that respect. But on field at least, it's looking up.

 

[WilloTree]

Mate this is getting so boring. Stop sensationalising individual phrases I use and take a look at the overall message.

This is what you wrote:

"The vitriol isn't disproportionate at all...

...many supporters cringe every time Banfield goes near the ball because the odds that he'll utensil up the chain are much higher than most other players on the list. He over-runs, fumbles, missed handballs and misses kicks far more regularly than anyone else...

...And what role is that exactly? Fake pressure forward who constantly gets in the way of other leads and often blasts for goal instead of lowering his eyes?"

Would you agree that to this point of the season, they were based more on preconceived inaccuracies? There's really no shame in walking them back. As I said, I think we'd all respect a bit of honesty rather than getting defensive with posts like 'this is getting so boring". Maybe it's just a case where you were happy to stick the boot in and join that pile-on, but too proud to admit you got it wrong?

Perhaps next time maybe back in the fact that JL probably knows what he's doing and is working with the list he's got. You know, actually support the team. I have no problem with the discussion on how Freo can be doing better, but the individual bashing of Banfield (and others) when everything wasn't rosey was pretty embarrassing stuff.

 

[BeinPurplenGreen]

This is what you wrote:

"The vitriol isn't disproportionate at all...

...many supporters cringe every time Banfield goes near the ball because the odds that he'll utensil up the chain are much higher than most other players on the list. He over-runs, fumbles, missed handballs and misses kicks far more regularly than anyone else...

...And what role is that exactly? Fake pressure forward who constantly gets in the way of other leads and often blasts for goal instead of lowering his eyes?"

Would you agree that to this point of the season, they were based more on preconceived inaccuracies? There's really no shame in walking them back. As I said, I think we'd all respect a bit of honesty rather than getting defensive with posts like 'this is getting so boring". Maybe it's just a case where you were happy to stick the boot in and join that pile-on, but too proud to admit you got it wrong?

Perhaps next time maybe back in the fact that JL probably knows what he's doing and is working with the list he's got. You know, actually support the team. I have no problem with the discussion on how Freo can be doing better, but the individual bashing of Banfield (and others) when everything wasn't rosey was pretty embarrassing stuff.

Don't you ever get tired of your histrionics?

We've beaten Hawtank, an Eagles team with 8 injured players and a Swans team with no backmen bigger than your ego.
Oh, and a Suns team with ambitions for pick 3.

You are the one with the never ending vitriol, and it is targeted at fans of your own team who dare to have an opinion different to yours.

Funny how when you were targeting Ross Lyon on here with similar posts, it wasn't "vitriol", instead you were "truth telling" and "saying it how it is".
Hypocrite.

 

[WilloTree]

Don't you ever get tired of your histrionics?

We've beaten Hawtank, an Eagles team with 8 injured players and a Swans team with no backmen bigger than your ego.
Oh, and a Suns team with ambitions for pick 3.

You are the one with the never ending vitriol, and it is targeted at fans of your own team who dare to have an opinion different to yours.

Funny how when you were targeting Ross Lyon on here with similar posts, it wasn't "vitriol", instead you were "truth telling" and "saying it how it is".
Hypocrite.

huh? I was replying to SupermanCapes comments re Banfield.

I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about re Ross Lyon. I don't ever remember using the words "truth telling" Happy to be informed though if you could share the post.

Are you sure you're in the right thread?

 

[vidwhal]

Why wouldn't he? He's developing well and if that continues then the club will offer him a contract. At this point of time I doubt we delist him and I also doubt that other clubs would be willing to trade for him. If he wants a decent AFL career then he'll re- sign imo but there's plenty of water to go under the bridge.

I think it'd be a big mistake to let him go. He's shown what he can do so there's no doubting his ability. He's a surer thing than a new draftee (unless it's a top 5 kpf).

 

[Dockeroo]

The Banfield criticism has been almost exclusively about his onfield performances. Just like every other player that gets criticised on here for poor performances. It’s broadly speaking a well moderated board with very little “vitriol”. Apart from a few light hearted comments on his family pearl business, from people mostly taking the piss really, the vast majority of criticism towards him has been due to on-field performances. Eg, fumbling, lack of pace etc.
it’s a discussion board and plenty of other players get critiqued for their flaws too, there’s nothing remotely personal about it.

I’ve been a big Banfield critic on here. Not because I don’t think he’s a decent guy. He clearly is as evidenced by his work on things like starlight.
I think there are better options and would like to see the same opportunity given to someone like Sturt who has a much higher ceiling in my opinion.
However I think he’s played pretty well by his standards the last 2 weeks but much tougher tests lie ahead and his marking and fumbling are still a big concern.
Though he has inproved in 2 areas to his credit - decision making with the ball in his hands is definitely getting better, and I also liked that he passed off a ball he marked 35 m out from goal to give Frederick I think it was a tap in. The old Banfield would 100% have kicked that set shot and ignored the play on to try pump up his own stats but by being unselfish he turned a 60% chance of a goal from the set shot into a 100% certain Joe the goose for Freddie.
That was possibly his best moment of the game I reckon.

 

[s_wd6]

I think it'd be a big mistake to let him go. He's shown what he can do so there's no doubting his ability. He's a surer thing than a new draftee (unless it's a top 5 kpf).

The big knock on him was that he wasn't holding his marks. The way we play him in combination with Amiss and Jackson has looked really good. Even last week when he got subbed I like what he brought. A couple weeks ago I was in the trade him group, but if he can put up even one more performances like that then we need to sign him ASAP. He only really played with Tabs before. Works a lot better with out him, and works a lot better when he's able to move up the ground too.

 

[Freomaniac]

Would he want JLo’s job though?
He is not coming over for an assistant wage. That’s downgrading.
Get Pyke and, or Cox to fix Freo with Justin.
If he fails then, we have contingencies to a smooth transition.
We are a very young side, we need the best assistants to fast track.
I think you will find that weight training would go up a gear for starters.

would you Pay Don Pyke $300-$500,000 a year to be a senior assistant coach?

I dont know. If that means dockers get finals every year, meaning 5th to 8th each year for the next 3-5 years, and one or 2 finals wins then yes I am in for it.

 

[Freomaniac]

The Banfield criticism has been almost exclusively about his onfield performances. Just like every other player that gets criticised on here for poor performances. It’s broadly speaking a well moderated board with very little “vitriol”. Apart from a few light hearted comments on his family pearl business, from people mostly taking the piss really, the vast majority of criticism towards him has been due to on-field performances. Eg, fumbling, lack of pace etc.
it’s a discussion board and plenty of other players get critiqued for their flaws too, there’s nothing remotely personal about it.

I’ve been a big Banfield critic on here. Not because I don’t think he’s a decent guy. He clearly is as evidenced by his work on things like starlight.
I think there are better options and would like to see the same opportunity given to someone like Sturt who has a much higher ceiling in my opinion.
However I think he’s played pretty well by his standards the last 2 weeks but much tougher tests lie ahead and his marking and fumbling are still a big concern.
Though he has inproved in 2 areas to his credit - decision making with the ball in his hands is definitely getting better, and I also liked that he passed off a ball he marked 35 m out from goal to give Frederick I think it was a tap in. The old Banfield would 100% have kicked that set shot and ignored the play on to try pump up his own stats but by being unselfish he turned a 60% chance of a goal from the set shot into a 100% certain Joe the goose for Freddie.
That was possibly his best moment of the game I reckon.

you must be talking about the hawks game last week?

Yeah I remember that. That was the right team thing to do. 35 metre out on a tight angle, Banfield saw Frederick 15 meters away. Banfield kicked it to him as he was in a better position for a set shot goal.

Not supriingly, Frederick slotted that set shot goal with ease.

 

[kuhni]

Why would Sturt still be at Freo in 2025. Unless he plays the majority of the rest of the season he isn’t going to resign for us as he is OOC EOY.

you must be talking about the hawks game last week?

Yeah I remember that. That was the right team thing to do. 35 metre out on a tight angle, Banfield saw Frederick 15 meters away. Banfield kicked it to him as he was in a better position for a set shot goal.

Not supriingly, Frederick slotted that set shot goal with ease.

Has also had also delivered some dish offs to the incoming mids. I think it might be two of those goal assists to brayshaw.

 

[blue shark]

would you Pay Don Pyke $300-$500,000 a year to be a senior assistant coach?

I dont know. If that means dockers get finals every year, meaning 5th to 8th each year for the next 3-5 years, and one or 2 finals wins then yes I am in for it.

Surely we have more coin in the kitty due to not replacing Carr?
Other clubs have superior setups in the coaches box.
We are a young team that needs direction, and how we started the season
only proves that we got in wrong.
I’m still unsure if Treacy would be getting a game if Tabs was available?
Erasmus coming in due to Johnson’s suspension, the kids have been the best thing
that has happened to the team, and it feels like by default?
Maybe I’m being overly harsh but with a full list available the selections haven’t been inspired.
The next 3 games against better opponents should give us a reality check to see if we heading in the right direction for next year.
We would be lucky to play finals this year and I may come down to losing to North at home.

 

[SupermanCapes]

This is what you wrote:

"The vitriol isn't disproportionate at all...

...many supporters cringe every time Banfield goes near the ball because the odds that he'll utensil up the chain are much higher than most other players on the list. He over-runs, fumbles, missed handballs and misses kicks far more regularly than anyone else...

...And what role is that exactly? Fake pressure forward who constantly gets in the way of other leads and often blasts for goal instead of lowering his eyes?"

Would you agree that to this point of the season, they were based more on preconceived inaccuracies? There's really no shame in walking them back. As I said, I think we'd all respect a bit of honesty rather than getting defensive with posts like 'this is getting so boring". Maybe it's just a case where you were happy to stick the boot in and join that pile-on, but too proud to admit you got it wrong?

Perhaps next time maybe back in the fact that JL probably knows what he's doing and is working with the list he's got. You know, actually support the team. I have no problem with the discussion on how Freo can be doing better, but the individual bashing of Banfield (and others) when everything wasn't rosey was pretty embarrassing stuff.

This is getting boring because you seem hell-bent on getting some sort of apology for my having a view that Banfield wasn't in our B22 at various points in time this season.

My biggest issue with you is that you take a valid conversation about Banfield's on-field deficiencies and there being others who can play the same role to a potentially higher standard, and turn it into "Banfield bashing" that needs to be "walked back" otherwise I'm "too proud to admit I got it wrong".

Let me just be super clear on what my view is: Bailey Banfield has, up until this point in his career, proven to be an average AFL forward with a relatively low ceiling. For most of this season and last there have been players on our list not getting a game that could play better than him and contribute more to the team. It is my view that Banfield wasn't subject to the same selection criteria that others were which resulted in them being dropped after one bad game. The last two weeks he has, relatively, played out of his skin and will likely hold his spot in the team. As I've said maybe three separate times now, not that you acknowledge it, I'm happy for him to hold his spot given he played well. He also seems to be a lovely fella that I would enjoy getting a beer with, but I can say that for most of my mates and I never want to see any of them lining up for Fremantle on the HFF.

What him playing well recently doesn't do is change the fact that until he played well he had, on average, played poorly. Before the last two weeks I absolutely cringed when he went near the ball because I have a working memory and recall him overrunning, fumbling and making basic skill errors with ball in hand. None of those things are "preconceived inaccuracies" that need to be walked back. If he stops doing them, like he managed to do against Hawthorn and Sydney, then that's great and he is going to be a net positive for the team.

Finally making the pointed assertion that I don't support the team is garbage and, while I don't know you, I would assume you're better than that.

Everything I have posted has been my honest opinion. Some share it, some don't, that's the nature of a message board. Get the **** out of here with your high and mighty "we'd all appreciate a bit of honesty" bullshit. If anyone here is guilty of individual bashing it's you.