Coach Justin Longmuir

[Freomaniac]

Surely we have more coin in the kitty due to not replacing Carr?
Other clubs have superior setups in the coaches box.
We are a young team that needs direction, and how we started the season
only proves that we got in wrong.
I’m still unsure if Treacy would be getting a game if Tabs was available?
Erasmus coming in due to Johnson’s suspension, the kids have been the best thing
that has happened to the team, and it feels like by default?
Maybe I’m being overly harsh but with a full list available the selections haven’t been inspired.
The next 3 games against better opponents should give us a reality check to see if we heading in the right direction for next year.
We would be lucky to play finals this year and It may come down to losing to North at home.

Well..... This time last season, the dockers were hit by corona virus .

But it wasn't the key players that got hit by the virus. It was the depth/ rotation players and the kids.

It was a blessing in disguise as it didn't hurt the club. It also rotated the depth players and kids too.

It's funny that guys like Peter Francis Bell, Josh Carr and Justin Longmuir were in key dockers positions.

All 3 were team mates together back in 2005-7. This was was when Chris Connolly was coaching us.

So.... I am surprised that players in that 2002-07 Connolly era players are not in other coaching spots.

Roger Hayden and Aaron Sandilands worked at the dockers when their playing careers ended

 

[Sweetback]

I think Harvey blamed Palmer for breaking Barlow's leg.

We used to get a lot of those contact injuries from friendly fire under Harves. I remember it’s something Ross corrected when he came in

 

[WilloTree]

My biggest issue with you is that you take a valid conversation about Banfield's on-field deficiencies and there being others who can play the same role to a potentially higher standard, and turn it into "Banfield bashing" that needs to be "walked back" otherwise I'm "too proud to admit I got it wrong".

Let me just be super clear on what my view is: Bailey Banfield has, up until this point in his career, proven to be an average AFL forward with a relatively low ceiling. For most of this season and last there have been players on our list not getting a game that could play better than him and contribute more to the team. It is my view that Banfield wasn't subject to the same selection criteria that others were which resulted in them being dropped after one bad game.

Who are the players who play in Banfield's position who were dropped after 1 bad game?

The last two weeks he has, relatively, played out of his skin and will likely hold his spot in the team.

I've posted the statistics of his season and outlined how they are consistent, yet you are still saying 'two good weeks'. At this point I don't think it would help posting them a third time.

As I've said maybe three separate times now, not that you acknowledge it, I'm happy for him to hold his spot given he played well. He also seems to be a lovely fella that I would enjoy getting a beer with, but I can say that for most of my mates and I never want to see any of them lining up for Fremantle on the HFF.

How well your mates play AFL is irrelevant.

What him playing well recently doesn't do is change the fact that until he played well he had, on average, played poorly. Before the last two weeks I absolutely cringed when he went near the ball because I have a working memory and recall him overrunning, fumbling and making basic skill errors with ball in hand. None of those things are "preconceived inaccuracies" that need to be walked back. If he stops doing them, like he managed to do against Hawthorn and Sydney, then that's great and he is going to be a net positive for the team.

I believe this has been addressed. You either can't see it - or won't. Either way, we're at a dead end.

Finally making the pointed assertion that I don't support the team is garbage and, while I don't know you, I would assume you're better than that.

Everything I have posted has been my honest opinion. Some share it, some don't, that's the nature of a message board. Get the * out of here with your high and mighty "we'd all appreciate a bit of honesty" bullshit. If anyone here is guilty of individual bashing it's you.

Nonsense. You went for the jugular in your scapegoating of Banfield eg "Fake pressure forward who constantly gets in the way of other leads.." which was inaccurate at the time, and looks worse now. You were called out on it and now you're having a go at me for doing so.

I think we can respectfully agree to disagree at this point.

I totally agree with your first point. It's boring now.

Anyway, I think I've said my piece on this now. Time to move on.

 

[Vintage]

Honestly still think it's a top eight list we've got and anything much worse than that result he should be gone. We can a record of sacking underperforming coaches with one year left.

If we play like a top eight list for the rest of the year but miss the eight I'd probably be willing to accept we just had a poor start and wouldn't be disappointed with him coaching next year.

It’s a top 8 potential team right now.

Each week we are in the bottom 3 for average games played. It is extremely rare for inexperienced teams to make the 8.

Our 3 key forwards have played a total of 2 games together - 2! And less than 100 games total between them - Jackson by far the most experienced with 61.

Realistically we won’t be competing until 2025+

 

[EastcoastDocker]

If Sturt was best 22 he would be in the 22. You think the coaching staff are trying to self sabotage? They would love to play a younger player if he were equal to Banfield simply to protect themselves and say hey look we are playing the kids.

Bailey isn't a world beater but he is quite crafty and uses his body well. He's in til he isn't.

Fans over rate youngsters based on perceived potential. The list of players who were gonna be the second coming of ______ but just weren't given an opportunity according to Freo fans is long but very few amounted to much. The one in recent memory who did do well in Collins not many really rated.

 

[Joao]

If Sturt was best 22 he would be in the 22. You think the coaching staff are trying to self sabotage? They would love to play a younger player if he were equal to Banfield simply to protect themselves and say hey look we are playing the kids.

Bailey isn't a world beater but he is quite crafty and uses his body well. He's in til he isn't.

Fans over rate youngsters based on perceived potential. The list of players who were gonna be the second coming of ______ but just weren't given an opportunity according to Freo fans is long but very few amounted to much. The one in recent memory who did do well in Collins not many really rated.

Sturt is like 2 years younger than Banfield.

This isn't a youngster thing, it's a ceiling thing.

 

[Big Flappy]

How many of these so called stars that coaches refused to give a game to with us went on to break out for other teams?

Viv Michie

Viv Michie

Age

32

Ht

185cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.4

4star

K

7.3

3star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

2.3

4star

CL

1.5

4star

No current season stats available

D

16.2

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

8.4

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.8

5star

CL

2.2

4star

, Sam Sturt

1

Sam Sturt

Age

24

Ht

190cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.7

2star

K

4.0

2star

HB

3.7

3star

M

2.3

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.7

2star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.7

3star

M

2.3

2star

T

1.0

2star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.7

2star

K

4.0

2star

HB

3.7

3star

M

2.3

3star

T

1.0

3star

G

1.3

5star

, Harley Balic

Harley Balic

Age

27

Ht

187cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

6.5

3star

HB

6.5

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.3

5star

CL

1.5

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

6.5

3star

HB

6.5

4star

M

3.3

4star

T

3.3

5star

CL

1.5

4star

, Luke Valente etc etc etc

I think the unfortunate reality is he just isn't that good.

 

[Joao]

How many of these so called stars that coaches refused to give a game to with us went on to break out for other teams?

Viv Michie, Sam Sturt, Harley Balic, Luke Valente etc etc etc

I think the unfortunate reality is he just isn't that good.

His problem hasn't ever been ability. JL literally spelled it out in multiple press conferences last year what the issue is/was.

 

[kuhni]

Don't try to take bailey banfield

41

Bailey Banfield

Age

26

Ht

190cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.6

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

6.5

4star

M

2.9

3star

T

3.9

5star

G

0.3

3star

D

9.5

2star

K

5.3

2star

HB

4.3

3star

M

2.0

2star

T

2.8

4star

G

0.5

4star

D

14.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

6.8

5star

M

3.8

4star

T

3.2

5star

G

0.2

3star

bashing away from us... it's a tradition.

 

[Freomaniac]

Surely we have more coin in the kitty due to not replacing Carr?
Other clubs have superior setups in the coaches box.
We are a young team that needs direction, and how we started the season
only proves that we got in wrong.
I’m still unsure if Treacy would be getting a game if Tabs was available?
Erasmus coming in due to Johnson’s suspension, the kids have been the best thing
that has happened to the team, and it feels like by default?
Maybe I’m being overly harsh but with a full list available the selections haven’t been inspired.
The next 3 games against better opponents should give us a reality check to see if we heading in the right direction for next year.
We would be lucky to play finals this year and I may come down to losing to North at home.

Well I remember when Mark bomber Thompson left the cats as head coach in 2010, he was on $700,000 a year.

He then goes to Essendon as an assistant coach on $900,000 a year. How does that happen?

 

[Kram]

If Sturt was best 22 he would be in the 22. You think the coaching staff are trying to self sabotage? They would love to play a younger player if he were equal to Banfield simply to protect themselves and say hey look we are playing the kids.

Bailey isn't a world beater but he is quite crafty and uses his body well. He's in til he isn't.

Fans over rate youngsters based on perceived potential.

We are all entitled to our opinions as supporters watching from the outer but at the end of the day these guys at the club work with the team all week and their decisions impact their careers and livelihoods. It's naive to think that they don't know better the vast majority of the time.

 

[SupermanCapes]

We are all entitled to our opinions as supporters watching from the outer but at the end of the day these guys at the club work with the team all week and their decisions impact their careers and livelihoods. It's naive to think that they don't know better the vast majority of the time.

I know what you're saying but this place would be extremely bland if the stock response to team selection each week was, "Well, I suppose they know best".

 

[Kram]

I know what you're saying but this place would be extremely bland if the stock response to team selection each week was, "Well, I suppose they know best".

Well of course but there is a middle ground, we can all have reasonable opinions we are entitled to but the weight in which a lot of supporters give them from afar is often pretty laughable.

I mean it still could be but wasn't it 'consensus' a couple of weeks ago that the Jackson trade was a mistake?

 

[Mags98]

Serious question ?

yes? i was like 10 years old so

 

[blue shark]

Well of course but there is a middle ground, we can all have reasonable opinions we are entitled to but the weight in which a lot of supporters give them from afar is often pretty laughable.

I mean it still could be but wasn't it 'consensus' a couple of weeks ago that the Jackson trade was a mistake?

It’s funny that Jackson looks better once we fixed the spine with Treacy playing.
Pretty hard to stop the triple J.
Coach is playing catch-up, and if he’d shown faith in the kids in the first place the season may have started differently.
The only player who wasn’t ready, Henry was put on the wing?
Then a no show in confidence in Walker, you can bet the Pies don’t place a safe bet.
The game rewards risk, and it’s why Lyon ball was eradicated by the AFL.
The reality is that the list isn’t far off what could be achieved if we take the game on.

 

[SupermanCapes]

Well of course but there is a middle ground, we can all have reasonable opinions we are entitled to but the weight in which a lot of supporters give them from afar is often pretty laughable.

I mean it still could be but wasn't it 'consensus' a couple of weeks ago that the Jackson trade was a mistake?

I think it can cut both ways and so the current approach of people existing all along the response spectrum is ok. There has been a broad movement for a couple of years now to give Treacy a run of games rather than constantly dropping him after one bad performance and that appears to have been borne out recently. The Anti-Jackson crew have been silenced for the minute but I'd prefer they make their views known so those of us who liked the trade can have the conversation.

 

[Scham]

His problem hasn't ever been ability. JL literally spelled it out in multiple press conferences last year what the issue is/was.

Big Flappy is right though, and so are you. It's not about ability but if there are parts of his game that aren't up to the standard then it means he's not good enough. The fact is, he's currently not good enough to play AFL in our team. Fact. If he was, he'd be playing.

 

[Scham]

I know what you're saying but this place would be extremely bland if the stock response to team selection each week was, "Well, I suppose they know best".

Why?
Why not have the majority on board with the club and be excited about the team that we put out? That's fundamentally supporting and barracking "your" team and club.

I quite often disagree with selection but it's just stupid to think that you know better than those in the know. Put your opinion forward for sure but to go all in (which many do) and abuse the shite out of people at "their" club, even "their" head coach is just irrational.

 

[blue shark]

I think it can cut both ways and so the current approach of people existing all along the response spectrum is ok. There has been a broad movement for a couple of years now to give Treacy a run of games rather than constantly dropping him after one bad performance and that appears to have been borne out recently. The Anti-Jackson crew have been silenced for the minute but I'd prefer they make their views known so those of us who liked the trade can have the conversation.

I’d say 99 percent like the trade just we paid too much.
A second rounder coming back would have taken us to the next level with our other picks.
We had basically nothing to work with in the 2022 draft, and this year with another pick in the 20-30 range would of been a huge win.

 

[Joao]

Big Flappy is right though, and so are you. It's not about ability but if there are parts of his game that aren't up to the standard then it means he's not good enough. The fact is, he's currently not good enough to play AFL in our team. Fact. If he was, he'd be playing.

I don't agree with this as it assumes there is some objective standard by which players are picked - there isn't. It is the coaches subjective standard. We are allowed to disagree with this and that's what we all do from time to time. Also, all Banfield being picked over him tells you is that Banfield is preferred, it doesn't tell you Sturt isn't good enough (2 doesn't go into 1).

The only thing close to objective is statistics (which are imperfect) and in those they are basically the same player. Of course, we don't have access to all the data JL does so maybe there is something but that's irrelevant until I have that data.

 

[Scham]

I don't agree with this as it assumes there is some objective standard by which players are picked - there isn't. It is the coaches subjective standard. We are allowed to disagree with this and that's what we all do from time to time. Also, all Banfield being picked over him tells you is that Banfield is preferred, it doesn't tell you Sturt isn't good enough (2 doesn't go into 1).

The only thing close to objective is statistics (which are imperfect) and in those they are basically the same player. Of course, we don't have access to all the data JL does so maybe there is something but that's irrelevant until I have that data.

We'll agree to disagree. I'm not saying we're not allowed to disagree but understand that the subjective view of the coaches is more often than not going to be more accurate than the subjective view of a casual observer.

 

[Paracleet]

I’d say 99 percent like the trade just we paid too much.
A second rounder coming back would have taken us to the next level with our other picks.
We had basically nothing to work with in the 2022 draft, and this year with another pick in the 20-30 range would of been a huge win.

We were never getting anything of significance back in that deal. West Coast set the price floor in that trade and that was pick 2 on points.
Sure you can argue they should have given just our third rather than our second but it's not the material part of the trade.

 

[Joao]

We'll agree to disagree. I'm not saying we're not allowed to disagree but understand that the subjective view of the coaches is more often than not going to be more accurate than the subjective view of a casual observer.

Sure, but that completely removes the point of any thread discussing selection, list management, coaching etc from the boards. i.e. What's the point of BF?

 

[Scham]

Sure, but that completely removes the point of any thread discussing selection, list management, coaching etc from the boards. i.e. What's the point of BF?

What's the point of BF? Now that's a question that probably deserves its own thread.

It'd be different for everyone but for me it's to keep up to date with the happenings of my club, to discuss opinions with rational people that understand and know a bit about the game, discuss young talent, learn about upcoming young talent who may end up with us, and to fill in a bit of spare time.

 

[Mags98]

Sure, but that completely removes the point of any thread discussing selection, list management, coaching etc from the boards. i.e. What's the point of BF?

not much discussion comes from "sack JL the campaigner" tbf