Current Kathleen Folbigg * Convictions Overturned

[Kurve]

Maybe it has something to do with the recent historical unsolved cases now solved by DNA?

His close friend Tracy Chapman said she was shocked he decided to withhold his DNA.

'It's disappointing, but at the end of the day only Craig knows why,' she said.

'He has been told time and time again his DNA would be kept confidential, and it was not going to go on a database. You would think it would be a no-brainer.'

Kathleen Folbigg's husband refuses DNA sample that could clear ex-wife

Ex-husband of convicted child killer Kathleen Folbigg has refused to provide DNA evidence which could exonerate his ex wife of the deaths of their four children as new evidence reveals mutation.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Pamcake1]

'Science is saying her guilt can't be proven': International scientists eye overturning Australian murder convictions

A second judicial inquiry is due to resume tomorrow after hearing expert evidence that found baby killer Kathleen Folbigg and two of her children had the same genetic mutation.

www.abc.net.au

 

[craffles]

If you know the case in detail the husband has never been helpful to his then wife. That he wouldn't help with the provision of DNA now in the interests of getting to the truth leaves one thinking well what has he got to hide.

Are you actually serious? This is horrific. A guy doesn’t want to relive the trauma of losing his four kids and you’re accusing him of murder?

 

[DropBearess]

I know this case well. It's very unique in that it truly is science v human nature at its' best. There are very valid standpoints on both sides.

Evidently genetic issues have recently come to light. We can't argue with science.
KF was convicted without physical evidence; the entire case against her being based on her psychological state of mind at the time.

Whichever way you look at it, her husband was totally useless in terms of assistance with any of the babies at night. He allegedly could sleep through a cyclone (or chose to). We need to remember he was otherwise besotted by her. It seems he was suspicious after they lost their second child and knew in his heart she was guilty when their last child died.

The bottom line here is that when couples live together and have multiple kids over time, they know each other more than any other. The husband was certain. We heard snippets of his reasoning in court, but it was the tip of the iceberg. He lived with her and just knew.

Here is one very angry guy. Angry and grieving for his lost babies and probably very angry with himself for being unsupportive and useless. Most of all he would feel guilty for hindsight love for her while this was going on whether he knew or not. Refusing his DNA is his way of dealing with it. He doesn't want to enable any excuses from KF because he knows she is guilty.

KF's diaries are the only indisputable evidence because she wrote them all by herself. If we are expected to consider scientific evidence from experts around the world, we need to also call upon experts to interpret the diaries and the profile of the writer.

 

[Pamcake1]

Are you actually serious? This is horrific. A guy doesn’t want to relive the trauma of losing his four kids and you’re accusing him of murder?

Nowhere did I accuse him of murder. You have got the wrong end of the stick there. He will not submit his DNA soscientific studies can be done on the genetic defects that they are testing. Didn't you read the article posted?

 

[Pamcake1]

KF's diaries are the only indisputable evidence because she wrote them all by herself. If we are expected to consider scientific evidence from experts around the world, we need to also call upon experts to interpret the diaries and the profile of the writer.

Totally disputable in fact. Read below;

Kathleen Folbigg's diary entries show 'grieving mother' not guilty conscience, inquiry told

A special inquiry hears diary entries made by convicted killer about struggling with motherhood were characterised as "admissions of guilt", but a range of experts who have since analysed them have a very different view.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Lady O]

Even if the scientists are able to dismiss the diary entries as something other than admission of guilt and are able to find that the girls died of a DNA mutation. That only accounts for two dead children. Now they are saying that a different genetic mutation might explain the death of the boys. Does this sound like amazing bad luck to anyone else?

 

[Hojuman]

Even if the scientists are able to dismiss the diary entries as something other than admission of guilt and are able to find that the girls died of a DNA mutation. That only accounts for two dead children. Now they are saying that a different genetic mutation might explain the death of the boys. Does this sound like amazing bad luck to anyone else?

Once worked in a hosp.where a mum had 3 babies all born with an identical severe congenital heart defect. They all died.
4th child she had ? Born with Downs syndrome and significant ass. congenital heart defect.

It does happen.

 

[Kurve]

Writing while she's in jail and goes to explain her diary entries.

'I have unsavoury thoughts': Inquiry releases more than 100 pages of letters written in prison by Folbigg

An inquiry examining the convictions of Kathleen Folbigg for killing her four children releases letters the mother wrote from jail about the "black moods" referred to in her diaries.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Lady O]

Once worked in a hosp.where a mum had 3 babies born all with an identical severe congenital heart defect. They all died.
4th child she had ? Born with Downs syndrome and significant ass. congenital heart defect.

It does happen.

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but none of the children were diagnosed with any illness during their (short) lifetimes? I expect the example above, all these children were diagnosed when they were living?

 

[Hojuman]

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but none of the children were diagnosed with any illness during their (short) lifetimes? I expect the example above, all these children were diagnosed when they were living?

Nature of most paediatric congenital heart defects are picked up in utero during scans.

 

[BFew]

Police find more than 500 hours of missing Folbigg tapes

NSW Police have produced a box of cassette tapes from listening devices hidden in Kathleen Folbigg’s marital home.

www.smh.com.au

 

[BFew]

A storm of articles today on this case, with the apparent miscarriage of justice getting closer to being formally admitted by the NSW Government, massive compensation to Folbigg, and the case being used to drive forwards long overdue law reform in Australia regarding new evidence.

DPP accepts 'reasonable doubt' about Kathleen Folbigg's guilt, inquiry told

New genetic evidence shows a "reasonable doubt" over Kathleen Folbigg's convictions for killing her four children, after a second judicial inquiry hears months of evidence.

www.abc.net.au

'Judicial inquiry into Kathleen Folbigg convictions told 'reasonable doubt' exists after new evidence​

Posted 7h ago updated 2h ago

'... Test case for law reform
This matter is being watched as a test case for the need for law reform in Australia.

Countries such as the UK, New Zealand, Scotland, and Norway have introduced "criminal case review commissions" to deal with post-appeal phase new evidence, but Australia has not.

If Mr Bathurst finds reasonable doubt, he could refer the case to the Court of Criminal Appeal to consider quashing Folbigg's convictions.

Mr Bathurst could also recommend a pardon, which would see Folbigg walk out of jail.
...'

 

[BFew]

'The former husband of convicted child killer Kathleen Folbigg is refusing to give a DNA sample and has withdrawn from an inquiry that could exonerate her over the deaths of their four infant children more than two decades ago.'

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/husbands-dna-test-refusal-to-aid-kathleen-folbigg/news-story/286c0064be18519b9f0e434bf565a141

The success of Folbigg’s bid for freedom will hang on the strength of the new genetic evidence, which has been championed by some of the nation’s leading scientists, but Craig Folbigg’s refusal to provide DNA will limit the scope of the inquiry.

Mr Folbigg’s DNA has the potential to provide “considerable assistance” and reveal if he passed on any genetic mutations that could have led to the children’s deaths and establish from whom the boys inherited genetic mutations.

Kathleen Folbigg's husband refuses DNA sample that could clear ex-wife

Ex-husband of convicted child killer Kathleen Folbigg has refused to provide DNA evidence which could exonerate his ex wife of the deaths of their four children as new evidence reveals mutation.

www.dailymail.co.uk

'Mr Folbigg has always maintained his ex-wife is guilty and cited financial struggles as the reason he won't provide DNA as part of the enquiry.'

I wonder if Ms Folbigg will ever get an apology from her traitorous ex-husband?

 

[BFew]

I haven't really followed this case much, apart to have a strong feeling on what I had read, that there was a miscarriage of justice.

Heres' some interesting case quotes I could not see quoted in this thread just now.

Genetics may free a woman convicted of killing her 4 babies and help other parents explain the unexplainable | CNN

After Kathleen Folbigg's four children died, she was convicted of killing them. But scientists say there's a genetic explanation behind their deaths.

edition.cnn.com

'Genetics may free a woman convicted of killing her 4 babies and help other parents explain the unexplainable​

By Julia Hollingsworth, CNN
Updated 12:30 AM EDT, Sat March 20, 2021

...
at trial in 2003, the prosecution argued Folbigg had smothered her children. There was no conclusive forensic proof – instead, the prosecution relied on a maxim credited to British pediatrician Roy Meadow: “One sudden infant death is a tragedy, two is suspicious and three is murder, until proven otherwise.”

The prosecutor compared the chance of the children dying of natural causes to pigs flying.

“I can’t disprove that one day some piglets might be born with wings and that they might fly. Is that some reasonable doubt? No,” the prosecutor told the jury during the 2003 trial. “There has never ever been before in the history of medicine that our experts have been able to find any case like this. It is preposterous. It is not a reasonable doubt. It is a fantasy and, of course, the Crown does not have to disprove a fanciful idea.”'

 

[BFew]

On the subject of apologies to Ms Folbigg, will the Crown Prosecutor (Mark Tedeschi the Ivan Milat prosecutor) ever personally apologise to Folbigg?

Diaries, DNA and reasonable doubt: Did Kathleen Folbigg kill her children?

A genetic miracle might save her from languishing in prison over the deaths of her four young children, Kathleen Folbigg wrote in 2003.

www.smh.com.au

Diaries, DNA and reasonable doubt: Did Kathleen Folbigg kill her children?​

February 19, 2023 — 12.00am
'Crown prosecutor Mark Tedeschi, KC, submitted to the jury: “It has never been recorded that the same person has been hit by lightning four times.”'

Sydney Barristers - Wardell Chambers

Wardell Chambers: Leading Sydney barristers delivering expert advocacy and strategic counsel for optimal legal outcomes. Contact us today.

wardellchambers.com.au

Mark Tedeschi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

'...​

Controversies as a prosecutor​

In 1991, the New South Wales Court of Criminal Appeal made criticism of Tedeschi in acquitting Tim Anderson of charges related to the 1978 Hilton Hotel bombing. Chief Justice Murray Gleeson said, in a unanimous judgement: "The trial of the appellant miscarried principally because of an error which resulted in large part from the failure of the prosecuting authorities adequately to check aspects of the Jayewardene theory. This was compounded by what I regard as an inappropriate and unfair attempt by the Crown to persuade the jury to draw inferences of fact, and accept argumentative suggestions, that were not properly open on the evidence. I do not consider that in those circumstances the Crown should be given a further opportunity to patch up its case against the appellant. It has already made one attempt too many to do that, and I believe that, if that attempt had never been made, there is a strong likelihood that the appellant would have been acquitted."

Tim Anderson told ABC television that the Legal Aid Commission of NSW, acting for him, laid almost 50 complaints against Tedeschi to the NSW Bar Council. "None of it came to anything."

Tedeschi was also criticised as a prosecutor in 2012 by the NSW Court of Criminal Appeal in the Gordon Wood trial. In acquitting Gordon Wood over the alleged murder of Caroline Byrne, the appeal judges found he relied on fiction and dangerous reasoning in the Wood case. Chief Judge Peter McLellan made numerous critical references to Tedeschi's presentation of evidence, concluding: "The difficulties which the prosecutor's conduct created are so significant that I am satisfied it caused the trial to miscarry occasioning a miscarriage of justice. The fundamental problem with the course taken by the prosecutor was that both generally and with respect to particular questions the prosecutor reversed the onus of proof."

Subsequently, Wood lodged complaints against Tedeschi to the New South Wales Bar Association, which were all dismissed.

In December 2017, Tedeschi wrote two email messages to state prosecutors, arguing that some of his colleagues were making inappropriate concessions to the defence. He said that the key role of a Crown prosecutor was "to act as a contradictor". The Bar Council responded that Tedeschi's messages had presented a "fundamental misunderstanding of the independent role of Crown prosecutors, as mere agents, rather than independent counsel". A DPP media release agreed with the main points of the Bar Council's statement. Tedeschi resigned as Senior Crown Prosecutor in February 2018, having announced his resignation in October 2017.
...'

 

[Kurve]

'Mr Folbigg has always maintained his ex-wife is guilty and cited financial struggles as the reason he won't provide DNA as part of the enquiry.'

I wonder if Ms Folbigg will ever get an apology from her traitorous ex-husband?

What a lowlie he is, he wants to be paid for it?

 

[BFew]

A few Folbigg case books that might soon need to be removed from the Amazon bookshop and numerous online and bricks and mortar store retailers or have their displayed marketing info changed to remove the references to Kathleen Folbigg being Australia's worst female serial killer, or that assume her guilt.

Kathleen Folbigg: Australia's Worst Female Serial Killer eBook : Benns, Matthew: Amazon.com.au: Kindle Store

Kathleen Folbigg: Australia's Worst Female Serial Killer eBook : Benns, Matthew: Amazon.com.au: Kindle Store

www.amazon.com.au

When The Bough Breaks: The True Story of Child Killer Kathleen Folbigg eBook : Benns, Matthew: Amazon.com.au: Kindle Store

When The Bough Breaks: The True Story of Child Killer Kathleen Folbigg eBook : Benns, Matthew: Amazon.com.au: Kindle Store

www.amazon.com.au

Baby Killer: The True Story of Kathleen Folbigg (Audio Download): Chelsea Hilton, Sangita Chauhan, Chelsea Hilton: Amazon.com.au: Audible Books & Originals

Baby Killer: The True Story of Kathleen Folbigg (Audio Download): Chelsea Hilton, Sangita Chauhan, Chelsea Hilton: Amazon.com.au: Audible Books & Originals

www.amazon.com.au

 

[craffles]

Can someone explain where they have found the genetic mutation that would have caused it? Or is it just that this possibility was never considered?

 

[CD Xbow]

Can someone explain where they have found the genetic mutation that would have caused it? Or is it just that this possibility was never considered?

The genetics have only recently been understood.

'The inquiry heard Sarah and Laura had a never-before reported mutation in the CALM2 gene, which controls how calcium is transported in and out of heart cells. Mutations in this gene are one of the best-recognised causes of sudden death in infancy and childhood.

In May 2019, after the hearings had concluded, a similar mutation in two siblings in the United States caused one of them to die of an irregular heartbeat (cardiac arrhythmia) and the other to have a heart attack (cardiac arrest).....'

Laura actually had myocarditis, so I don't understand why that was not her cause of death.

'.....Laura, in particular, had such extensive myocarditis (inflammation of the heart) that all three professors of forensic pathology present at the 2019 inquiry stated, prior to the hearings on genetic evidence, they would have listed Laura’s cause of death as myocarditis.'

Regarding the boys

'......The two boys also had medical conditions that point towards dying of natural causes. One had difficulty breathing due to a floppy larynx, the other had epilepsy and blindness.

Only recently, as we were re-analysing the Folbigg genomes, we found the two boys had two different novel and rare variants in a gene known as BSN (or Bassoon), one inherited from their mother and the other presumably inherited from their father.

This is a gene that when defective in mice, causes early onset lethal epilepsy — mice die young during epileptic fits. We are currently investigating whether the variants found in the Folbigg boys can cause disease.'

Some element of this poor women's case has strong parallels to the Lindy Chamberlain case. No evidence of a murder, lot's of 'nothings' turned into 'evidence' and a wilingness to believe the wicked women narrative. I have no idea what is wrong with her husband but he sounds a real tosser. The article is here and also contains some interesting comments about expert witnesses. Worth a read.

Kathleen Folbigg’s children likely died of natural causes, not murder. Here’s the evidence my team found

The science behind today’s petition to pardon Kathleen Folbigg has been peer reviewed. Here’s what it says.

theconversation.com

 

[stormbird]

Can someone explain where they have found the genetic mutation that would have caused it? Or is it just that this possibility was never considered?

Please excuse me for jumping in here, I haven't followed this case very closely - craffles, I think this article might answer your question?

Kathleen Folbigg conviction questioned after scientists discover genetic mutation which 'likely' killed two children, ABC News, 19 Aug 2020

"Carola Vinuesa, a Professor of Immunology at the Australian National University (ANU), and Fellow of the Australian Academy of Science ...
told close to 700 registered participants at the symposium she had been asked to analyse the genomes of Kathleen and her four children in early 2019.
She described the process of sequencing entire genomes from the children's neonatal heel-prick blood cards that were over 20 years old as an "incredible" achievement.
The children's father, Craig Folbigg, declined to provide DNA to the scientists.
"Despite this disadvantage, we found a novel, never-before reported mutation in Sarah and Laura that had been inherited from Kathleen," Professor Vinuesa said.
"The variant was in a gene called CALM2 [that encodes for calmodulin]. Calmodulin variants can cause sudden cardiac death."
(bolded by me)

 

[BFew]

Some more today on the prosecution relying on a maxim credited to British pediatrician Roy Meadow: “One sudden infant death is a tragedy, two is suspicious and three is murder, until proven otherwise.”

And another reminder of the tunnel visioned prosecution interpretation of Folbigg's diaries, that IMO, more and more looks like guilty until proven innocent reasoning.

‘Significant body of evidence’ Folbigg children died of natural causes: inquiry chief

The head of an inquiry into Kathleen Folbigg’s convictions over the deaths of her four children has given a clear sign she may be pardoned and freed from prison.

www.smh.com.au

'Significant body of evidence’ Folbigg children died of natural causes: inquiry chief​

April 27, 2023 — 12.10pm

Former NSW chief justice Tom Bathurst, KC, also suggested a discredited line of reasoning known as Meadow’s Law, which posited that three or more sudden infant deaths in one family was murder until proven otherwise, had “profoundly influenced” Folbigg’s 2003 trial.
...
In light of that evidence, Bathurst said that Folbigg’s diaries, a key plank in the prosecution’s circumstantial case in 2003 that Folbigg had smothered her children, “loom larger and larger”.

“If I reject the diaries as admissions [of criminal guilt], there is, in [a] practical sense, very little to go on,” he said.

The inquiry heard for the first time psychological and psychiatric evidence about the interpretation of Folbigg’s diaries, which concluded they did not contain clear admissions of criminal guilt.

Callan submitted that the expert evidence “undermines the probative value of the entries in the diaries and journals, tending to render them neutral, that is, neither inculpatory nor exculpatory”.

Bathurst said that “I suppose it’s true in one sense that no one’s been able to establish [on] the balance of probabilities any particular cause of death for any of the children” but that was not the question he had to determine.
...
Bathurst said there were “a number of, how can I put it neutrally, provocative comments made by the Crown prosecutor [Mark Tedeschi, KC] during the course of his address concerning the unlikelihood of four children dying by, at that time, unknown natural causes”.

“It’s not my role in this inquiry at all to conduct a review of how the trial was conducted,” he said. “It is, however, relevant to the extent to which those comments may, probably consistently with Meadow’s Law, influence the jury.

“I will be putting in my report, [as I] presently perceive it, a reference to a couple of those remarks. I’ll be making clear it’s done for that purpose, and that purpose alone.”

Bathurst suggested the trial did not “directly” refer to Meadow’s Law but was “profoundly influenced” by this reasoning.

While Jordan submitted that coincidence reasoning was appropriate, Bathurst suggested “some of the propositions put went beyond simply relying on coincidence evidence”.

Dr Gregory Woods, KC, for Folbigg, drew a parallel between his client and Lindy Chamberlain, who he said had been “widely and publicly condemned over her manifestations of grief or rather her non-manifestations of grief” after the disappearance of her baby daughter Azaria.

He invited Bathurst “not to let your reasoning be affected by any concern as to expressions or non-expressions of grief”. He said Folbigg had, in fact, repeatedly expressed her grief over the loss of her children.
...
The inquiry concluded public hearings on Thursday. Bathurst said he would deliver a report to Governor Margaret Beazley “as soon as possible”.
If Bathurst finds reasonable doubt, he may refer the case to the Court of Criminal Appeal to consider quashing Folbigg’s convictions.

He may also refer the matter simultaneously to the governor to consider granting a pardon, which could expedite Folbigg’s release from prison before her convictions were officially quashed.

The NSW Attorney-General, Michael Daley, has the power to recommend to the governor that Folbigg should be pardoned and released from prison.

Folbigg’s solicitor, Rhanee Rego, said in a statement: “Given the nearly unanimous view by parties to the inquiry that Mr Bathurst can find reasonable doubt, we respectfully ask that NSW Attorney-General Michael Daley acts swiftly and humanely to release Ms Folbigg now.”

But a spokesperson for Daley said on Wednesday that “it would be inappropriate to comment on the inquiry ... at this time” and Bathurst’s recommendations would be considered when he had provided his final report.

Rego welcomed the submissions of counsel assisting the inquiry and said “we are also very pleased that the Director of Public Prosecutions has taken an independent position and will accept the inquirer’s recommendations”.

 

[utility]

I have no idea what is wrong with her husband but he sounds a real tosser.

Come back after four of your kids are dead and your wife has been convicted of murdering them.

 

[CD Xbow]

Come back after four of your kids are dead and your wife has been convicted of murdering them.

Perhaps. On the other hand, some partners would support them 110%. It's been a terrible miscarriage of justice and he hasn't helped.

 

[craffles]

Thank you for all of the above information, very insightful. My heart breaks for Kathleen but I guess at least it was finally uncovered. Thank **** we don’t have the death penalty.