Key Position Forwards

[astro_toby]

Everyone is harping on about our Key Position Forward situation - we all think we are lacking options there - and to an extent, we are - but looking at the list, we really have a heap- just none of them appear to be "ready"

Richo
Schulz
Hughes
Riewoldt
Pattison
Putt
Gourdis
Post
Vickery
Polak

We currently have 10 players on a list of 45 that are employed to fill 2-3 positions in our team.

Why the hell have we managed NOT to develop ANY of them capable to holding down a position - week on, week off?

I raise this question mainly based on our clubs obsession with employing key position forwards and "testing" them down back, in the midfield - pretty much anywhere bit in the forward line for the Coburg reserves & seniors.

Surely our club must by now question their policy on "nuturing" our key forwards in this way..... it doesn't appear to work.

discuss this list and discuss who will make it or wont - and also discuss all the other positions we have seen them play other than full forward or centrehalf forwad over the past few years

annoys me!! develop forwards as forwards! and play our key forward prospects in the bloody Coburg seniors at least!!!

 

[Bojangles17]

player development has been reprehensible in last 5 yrs , hell forever, that said we have more on the coaching payroll than at anytime in our history..the results speak for themselves..and is at the very root of our current plight No ifs, buts, maybes...this where the blame begins and ends in my books

 

[astro_toby]

player development has been reprehensible in last 5 yrs , hell forever, that said we have more on the coaching payroll than at anytime in our history..the results speak for themselves..and is at the very root of our current plight No ifs, buts, maybes...this where the blame begins and ends in my books

agree - are our coaches a case of "quantity, not quality" then?

Rawlings, king, and co are not your proven development coach's that we need.

 

[courtjester]

When Vickery makes the senior team I hope to hell they give him a position and leave him in it FOR THE NEXT5 YEARS!

Say to the kid "right, you are now Richmond's CHF, go for it". With that in mind he should be playing every game for Coburg in that position as of now.

Great OP. Amazing to think how many key forwards we have and how many aren't playing.

 

[Delids]

Its not about being ready its about being any good.
Jack seem like the most likely.
Vickery is a ruck then forward
Shultz - we had pick 28 on the table. he cant mark in front of his face and his kicking is bad.
Hughes - Playing Coburg Twos
Post- Playing Coburg two at Full Back. I think he maybe ok but the talk at the club is that he will be a defender???

 

[coke_zero]

annoys me!! develop forwards as forwards! and play our key forward prospects in the bloody Coburg seniors at least!!!

we cant fit all them into 1 team.

 

[SouvlakiHut]

Let me summarise

Richo- 34 and can't kick.

Riewoldt- Undersized, also a poor kick.

Vickery- Young but at ruckman height unlikely to ever be a decent key forward.

The rest are duds. You are in trouble in the KPF department.

 

[cormick]

Let me summarise

Richo- 34 and can't kick.

Riewoldt- Undersized, also a poor kick.

Vickery- Young but at ruckman height unlikely to ever be a decent key forward.

The rest are duds. You are in trouble in the KPF department.

I'd say most of our KPFs would be able to kick straight from 15m out however. Maybe you should have a talk to Fev. w***er. I really really hope you were one of the ones who jumped up as his kick looked likely to goal, in true arrogant Carlton fashion. Now **** off.

 

[coke_zero]

Let me summarise

Richo- 34 and can't kick.

Riewoldt- Undersized, also a poor kick.

Vickery- Young but at ruckman height unlikely to ever be a decent key forward.

The rest are duds. You are in trouble in the KPF department.

so because someone is to big or small they can play good football. please leave.

 

[Rosstickle]

so because someone is to big or small they can play good football. please leave.

Yet they wank on about how Kreuzer is going to be able to go to full forward and boot bags of goals.

 

[Tigersman]

Emotion aside,Polak needed to be cut.
Who knows what is going on with Gourdis?
Ive been a fan of Schulz but unless he kicks 5 in his next crack in the Ones it looks like he will be delisted.

Riewoldt shows a bit but needs some consistency.
Richo is nearly finished.
Simmonds is nearly done also.
Hughes seems one dimensional but deserves to get another chance when his Coburg form warrants it.
With Vickery its a bit early to tell.
Patto is not up to AFL footy.

That makes one Old timer in Richo, one likely type in Riewoldt and two projects in Hughes and Vickery. I dont know what to say about Gourdis as I have not seen him play enough.

While not super strong its not horrible either. I think more than anything we need to look at the structure of our forward line and how they move for each other. Who ever our forward coach is, he is doing a terrible job. Our set up is appalling. Either that or the players dont work for each other at all.

Another problem I keep coming back to is the current VFL alignment system does not help either us or Coburg. We need our own reserves to play our guys where we need them to develop. We cant always do that with the rules in place at VFL level.

 

[astro_toby]

the thing that annoys me is..... the total lack of logic.

We have ( i believe ) 4 good tall backs in McGuane, Thurstfield, Rance & Moore. All these blokes were drafted as backs, they all played all their time as backman - they have developed into good backmen.

THEN WHY THE HELL DO WE FEEL THE ****ING NEED TO PLAY ALL OUR FORWARDS DOWN BACK FOR "THEIR" DEVELOPMENT!?!?!?

Polak - spent 2 years down back as soon as we drafted him

Schulz - Spent two years down back

Hughes - a fortnight ago played in the fricking midfield

Just play them in the Forward line! Play Riewoldt, Pattison & schulz in the seniors next week. Play Hughes, Putt and Polak in the burgs seniors next week in the forward line - Play Vickory as a ruckman, / resting forward. - Then play Gourdis as the full forward at the burgs reserves. If Gourdis kicks a bag and Polly struggles - replace them - have the same policy right through to the seniors - but ALWAYS maintain that balance of KP forwards in those 3 sides. We need to develop these blokes. They had / have potential, we just keep screwing them around. Fricking invest all these blokes time as KP forwards!! Our side is desperately needing them to develop otherwise we are ****ed!

Post was actually drafted as a bloke who played most of his junior time down back - and watching his video's prior to being drafted - he looked more suitable down back, he is probably the one i wouldn't mind being played down back while we continue to nurture / cull the blokes who WON'T make it as a forward.

its insane how many KP Forwards we have drafted and attempted to "educate" them somewhere else before they have even gotten CLOSE to mastering the position they were employed to do

 

[cormick]

McGuane was drafted, IIRC, as a forward, and Moore was drafted as a midfield utility.

 

[astro_toby]

McGuane was drafted, IIRC, as a forward, and Moore was drafted as a midfield utility.

hmmm, i don't think so. Moore was always seen as a backman - and I am pretty sure McGuane was also seen as a backman.

The thing is, whatever they were before we drafted them - as soon as they got to the club, they we sent in to be backmen. both luke and Kelvin have ALWAYS played down back for coburg and richmond - and the results of those blokes compared to the poor forwards who are more like yo-yo's - just get confused and go mentally insane

 

[cormick]

Not to be difficult, and I agree wholeheartedly, but Moore has been played in a number of roles. In his first three or so year, when he would have barely managed games numbering in the double figures, he was predominantly used as a HFF. But the rest I agree, and think the forwards named should be kept there, and not swung round to every corner on the ground.

 

[finite]

we can't develope a forward properly with richo in the team. notice jack's good games are when richo is either not playing or off the ground. he is holding us back.

 

[Bojangles17]

When Vickery makes the senior team I hope to hell they give him a position and leave him in it FOR THE NEXT5 YEARS!

Say to the kid "right, you are now Richmond's CHF, go for it". With that in mind he should be playing every game for Coburg in that position as of now.

Great OP. Amazing to think how many key forwards we have and how many aren't playing.

yeah, that'll work, despite being kickless and markless you suggest he play 110 games straight, are you spud frawley

 

[Yoda_]

Sorry to butt in here, just interesting to read some of the over rating of players on here, i know people say, s***, we dont need a key forward we have plenty on our list, and by the list provided you do, but as one poster suggested, where are they all at, if they are no good, then get rid of them, what happened to Cleve Hughes, he was going to burst the seems at one stage, but after 2 dismal games he was dropped, people want 22 good games from players that arent superstars, and this has been the problem for the Richmond FC, the key forward selected does not have to come out and bag 20 - 30 goals does he, just provide a contest and kick 15 - 20 goals a year, as a youngster, and slowly improve from there, obviously some players are past that 'development' stagem and will be delisted by years end, but I think that the richmond recruiting staff and coaches need to have a long hard look at them selves.

Also, the call of Riewoldt being a KPP, he is not really a true KP, I would of thought he could turn into a less mobile Ryan O keefe type, someone that is that hit up target, a smaller version of his cousin??

just a view from an outsider.

 

[astro_toby]

Sorry to butt in here, just interesting to read some of the over rating of players on here, i know people say, s***, we dont need a key forward we have plenty on our list, and by the list provided you do, but as one poster suggested, where are they all at, if they are no good, then get rid of them, what happened to Cleve Hughes, he was going to burst the seems at one stage, but after 2 dismal games he was dropped, people want 22 good games from players that arent superstars, and this has been the problem for the Richmond FC, the key forward selected does not have to come out and bag 20 - 30 goals does he, just provide a contest and kick 15 - 20 goals a year, as a youngster, and slowly improve from there, obviously some players are past that 'development' stagem and will be delisted by years end, but I think that the richmond recruiting staff and coaches need to have a long hard look at them selves.

Also, the call of Riewoldt being a KPP, he is not really a true KP, I would of thought he could turn into a less mobile Ryan O keefe type, someone that is that hit up target, a smaller version of his cousin??

just a view from an outsider.

the point of the post mate was to show that we actually have plenty of KP forwards in our side - so thats not the problem.

The problem is that we obviously do not develop them properly. You can't draft 10 Key Position forwards and not get at least ONE right, that is bullshit. Schulz, Hughes, Polak all were excellent prospects to be full forward - but for some reason they have not developed and ended up playing down back.

We don;t overrate these players, we know where they are at - the point is we are questioning why they ALL are at that stage

 

[Matty Knights]

Sorry to butt in here, just interesting to read some of the over rating of players on here, i know people say, s***, we dont need a key forward we have plenty on our list, and by the list provided you do, but as one poster suggested, where are they all at, if they are no good, then get rid of them, what happened to Cleve Hughes, he was going to burst the seems at one stage, but after 2 dismal games he was dropped, people want 22 good games from players that arent superstars, and this has been the problem for the Richmond FC, the key forward selected does not have to come out and bag 20 - 30 goals does he, just provide a contest and kick 15 - 20 goals a year, as a youngster, and slowly improve from there, obviously some players are past that 'development' stagem and will be delisted by years end, but I think that the richmond recruiting staff and coaches need to have a long hard look at them selves.

Also, the call of Riewoldt being a KPP, he is not really a true KP, I would of thought he could turn into a less mobile Ryan O keefe type, someone that is that hit up target, a smaller version of his cousin??

just a view from an outsider.

Courtney Johns.

 

[krustyman]

besides richo, they lack a complete kpp, some cant kick consistently to be a serious threat to any sides and most dont have the size and strength to impose themselves on the game. wallaces fault for trying to get small mobile
kpp, they would be ok as hff but not as kpp. only hughes has a damaging kick, the rest dont have enough power or are erratic when it comes to kicking goals.

 

[Tigersman]

besides richo, they lack a complete kpp, some cant kick consistently to be a serious threat to any sides and most dont have the size and strength to impose themselves on the game. wallaces fault for trying to get small mobile
kpp, they would be ok as hff but not as kpp. only hughes has a damaging kick, the rest dont have enough power or are erratic when it comes to kicking goals.

Its "they" already Krusty?

Cmon. Dont throw in the towel now.

 

[Moreaux]

Everyone is harping on about our Key Position Forward situation - we all think we are lacking options there - and to an extent, we are - but looking at the list, we really have a heap- just none of them appear to be "ready"

Richo
Schulz
Hughes
Riewoldt
Pattison
Putt
Gourdis
Post
Vickery
Polak

We currently have 10 players on a list of 45 that are employed to fill 2-3 positions in our team.

Why the hell have we managed NOT to develop ANY of them capable to holding down a position - week on, week off?

I raise this question mainly based on our clubs obsession with employing key position forwards and "testing" them down back, in the midfield - pretty much anywhere bit in the forward line for the Coburg reserves & seniors.

Surely our club must by now question their policy on "nuturing" our key forwards in this way..... it doesn't appear to work.

discuss this list and discuss who will make it or wont - and also discuss all the other positions we have seen them play other than full forward or centrehalf forwad over the past few years

annoys me!! develop forwards as forwards! and play our key forward prospects in the bloody Coburg seniors at least!!!

Great post Astro i agree totally our forward structure is horrendous and has been for years, our forward line is not open enough and when we get the ball and are tied up all the forwards lead to the same space there seems to be no set plays, no dummy leads it's a rabble.

It's not the players just bad coaching directions.

Agree totally about playing players out of position Cleve and Sarge are born full forwards both quick on the lead like Fevola, Bradshaw and Lloyd.

Just play them there and let Putt, Vickery, Gourdis try to make CHF or third big man in the forward line.

The major problem with modern coaching is they are trying to make the game rocket science which it isn't it's still a simple game so keep it simple

 

[beaver fever]

If you don't draft enough talls you rely on far too few to make the grade, and then you are left in the situation we are now in. Our recruitment and list management is rubbish and always has been. Like a broken record.

 

[CoggaRules]

Its not about being ready its about being any good.
Jack seem like the most likely.
Vickery is a ruck then forward
Shultz - we had pick 28 on the table. he cant mark in front of his face and his kicking is bad.
Hughes - Playing Coburg Twos
Post- Playing Coburg two at Full Back. I think he maybe ok but the talk at the club is that he will be a defender???

the classic tiger educational program. **** with their heads in the 2s so they forget how to play the position that they made their name in.
Oh...sorry, i forget, they want to teach them defensive skills.
Like WTF??? here we have a defence that more often than not holding its own, our FL is a complete shit truck, and here we have a new recruit, who by and large has been touted as a F KPP, playing FB in the Coburg 2s. FFS, they have NFI. I would be sticking him in at FF at Coburg for the whole year, stepping him up to FF in the 1s for a few tastes, and if it works it works, if it doesnt, then lets see what he has at FB. Get your head out of your arses coahing panel. Your development formula is completely ****ed.