Expansion Launceston or Hobart???

[sherb]

Whether people like it or not, the AFL standard stadium in Tassie is currently based in Launceston.

To develop an AFL standard stadium in the south of the state would (I presume) possibly cost tens of millions of dollars. How can you possibly justify this sort of expenditure in the short term when you already have a stadium in place?

Personally, if this sort of money is needed to be spent on infrastructure, I would prefer to see it directed towards the upgrade of the Launceston-Hobart railway link, making passenger train travel possible again (which would benefit the state as a whole, not just the football supporting public).

If support for a Tasmanian AFL team doesn`t come from all over the state, I personally doubt if it would work. So wherever the stadium is located it is going to require the support of those who have to travel. Initially, it makes sense to me to limit the maximum travelling time to the majority of the state to a couple of hours and the Launceston venue provides for that.

Then in the longer term, the plan could be to develop a suitable AFL venue in Hobart so that the southerners` noses can be put back in joint and there can be a sharing of travelling requirements.

 

[TWillisetti7]

No it isn't. Not even close.

In the context of allowing regional supporters acces to games it is- 300,000 avid supporters from Mildura to Horsham...

in the context of the discussion it made sense as a tongue in cheek joke.... it's not a serious proposition

 

[Bulldog Joe]

It is a statement about the support base for a team given the established logic that most people won't consistantly travel an hour to support their home team at its home ground...

after all, would you travel to Hobart for home games?

I would not travel to Hobart for home games as it is a 4 hour trip for me but I would be reasonably regular to Launceston.

You and cschreuder61 are both entitled to your opinions.
Unfortunately opinions do not prove knowledge or understanding of the situation.
You are also entitled to disregard my opinions, and we can all believe we know more than those who disagree.

 

[TWillisetti7]

I would not travel to Hobart for home games as it is a 4 hour trip for me but I would be reasonably regular to Launceston.

You and cschreuder61 are both entitled to your opinions.
Unfortunately opinions do not prove knowledge or understanding of the situation.
You are also entitled to disregard my opinions, and we can all believe we know more than those who disagree.

so you'd regularly drive 2 hours to Launceston to see the team play?

 

[cs61]

U

Whether people like it or not, the AFL standard stadium in Tassie is currently based in Launceston.

It is, that doesn't mean Launceston will work as an AFL town though.

To develop an AFL standard stadium in the south of the state would (I presume) possibly cost tens of millions of dollars. How can you possibly justify this sort of expenditure in the short term when you already have a stadium in place?

Because its a long term investment. If they studied and believed it was better in Hobart, they have to put it in the place they think is the best chance for success, given its no where near a certainty that a team in Tasmania would exist and survive.

Personally, if this sort of money is needed to be spent on infrastructure, I would prefer to see it directed towards the upgrade of the Launceston-Hobart railway link, making passenger train travel possible again (which would benefit the state as a whole, not just the football supporting public).

People from Hobart are not going to travel 2 hours to watch games every week. People don't go up for games as it is, and there are only 4 a year.

If support for a Tasmanian AFL team doesn`t come from all over the state, I personally doubt if it would work. So wherever the stadium is located it is going to require the support of those who have to travel. Initially, it makes sense to me to limit the maximum travelling time to the majority of the state to a couple of hours and the Launceston venue provides for that.

If its in the Hobart area, its not going to require people to travel, it has 200000 people there, and another 50000 within 20-30 minutes. It wouldn't rely on people coming from Launceston and Devonport. If it was in Launceston, it would rely on travel. That is why it makes not sense to people from Hobart. Blues_man puts out dramatic statements like "hobart thinks its their right to own it", if he actually thought through what that means, its because its doesn't make sense relying on people traveling 2 hours, when you wouldn't have to if it was in Hobart, where the population of the state is easily the most dense in a more isolated area.

Then in the longer term, the plan could be to develop a suitable AFL venue in Hobart so that the southerners` noses can be put back in joint and there can be a sharing of travelling requirements.

Why does there need to be a need to share travel? There wouldn't be a reliance on travel if it was in Hobart, that is the whole point. Hobart has a similar population to Geelong as it is, it could get crowds by itself plus the 1000 or so that would travel from the North. The important thing is you guarantee to be targeting the 200000 in Hobart (with another 40000-50000 within 20-30 minutes from the huon valley, derwent valley, sorrel areas) only some of the 60000 of Launceston would come down , and very few of the smaller cities in Burnie and Devonport would come down.

How is that not better than only guaranteeing the 60000 in Launceston, and making up the numbers by assuming people want to travel 1-2 hours per game? More importantly signifcantly harming the Hobart area where there is 200000-250000 who would have ordinarily being in range of a game, but now very unlikely to travel.

Its baffling logic, and that is why people from Hobart can't believe that is an argument.

 

[sherb]

Re: U

It is, that doesn't mean Launceston will work as an AFL town though.

Because its a long term investment. If they studied and believed it was better in Hobart, they have to put it in the place they think is the best chance for success, given its no where near a certainty that a team in Tasmania would exist and survive.

People from Hobart are not going to travel 2 hours to watch games every week. People don't go up for games as it is, and there are only 4 a year.

If its in the Hobart area, its not going to require people to travel, it has 200000 people there, and another 50000 within 20-30 minutes. It wouldn't rely on people coming from Launceston and Devonport. If it was in Launceston, it would rely on travel. That is why it makes not sense to people from Hobart. Blues_man puts out dramatic statements like "hobart thinks its their right to own it", if he actually thought through what that means, its because its doesn't make sense relying on people traveling 2 hours, when you wouldn't have to if it was in Hobart, where it is easy the population of the state is easily the most dense in a more isolated area.

Why does there need to be a need to share travel? There wouldn't be a reliance on travel if it was in Hobart, that is the whole point. Hobart has a similar population to Geelong as it is, it could get crowds by itself plus the 1000 or so that would travel from the North.

If there was any degree of maturity among the Tasmanian population as a whole, an AFL side would easily prosper irrespective of where it was located.

However, it is apparently more important to have the childish and irrational regional hatred and rivalry than to unite as a state to work together on something as important as this.

It appears to me that it is more important to many Tasmanians not to support a side because it may be based in the opposite end of the state than to actually support it because it is Tasmanian. If, as you say, people in the south cannot be bothered to drive two hours to watch a game of AFL footy, it merely reinforces this view.

You will not change my mind on this. In the short term, it is absolutely ridiculous to spend a substantial amount on updating a stadium in the south when there is one in the north. Make that a longer term aim by all means, but as I pointed out there are more important things to spend money on in the short term. In the meantime, people can get off their backsides and travel - in support of their own side.

Seriously, you have to get out of the state (as I did) and look on things from the outside to see how the blinkered attitudes down there hold things back. Frankly, I don`t think this AFL venture can work until a lot of Tasmanians grow up. And I am not holding my breath for that to happen.

If you think that is harsh, too bad I guess. It is spoken by someone who would love to see an AFL side in Tassie and loves the state, but equally (living now as an outsider) can see the impediments to the proposed venture`s success. Incidentally, I will say that I am a Northerner by birth, but if the AFL quality stadium was already in place in the south I would be making exactly the same arguments.

The state needs to get behind the venture as a whole, and bury the north-south stupidity in doing so. Simple as that.

 

[cs61]

Re: U

If there was any degree of maturity among the Tasmanian population as a whole, an AFL side would easily prosper irrespective of where it was located.

Dramatic words used to degrade the person who are arguing against but is particularly pointless. An AFL side would not easily prosper in Tasmania, it would definitely take a lot of work. I just believe that an Hobart is a more realistic option for it to work than Launceston, and I think that is a reasonable statement.

However, it is apparently more important to have the childish and irrational regional hatred and rivalry than to unite as a state to work together on something as important as this.

What was childish or irrational in what I stated? Once again using big words to try and degrade someone, but has no relevance to what I said.

It appears to me that it is more important to many Tasmanians not to support a side because it may be based in the opposite end of the state than to actually support it because it is Tasmanian. If, as you say, people in the south cannot be bothered to drive two hours to watch a game of AFL footy, it merely reinforces this view.

I stated people from around the whole state can't be bothered traveling, that is why you would have it in Hobart because you wouldn't have to rely on travel in a state where people don't like to travel.

You are the one being childish in your methods of arguing, as you are taking me completely out of context in order to favour your argument, and doing what you are actually accusing others of doing.

You will not change my mind on this. In the short term, it is absolutely ridiculous to spend a substantial amount on updating a stadium in the south when there is one in the north. Make that a longer term aim by all means, but as I pointed out there are more important things to spend money on in the short term. In the meantime, people can get off their backsides and travel - in support of their own side.

Sounds good in theory but it doesn't work that way in reality. People wont need to travel Hobart, that is the whole point. If they want to invest in the better location for it, they will. I can't see how people can't admit there would be serious down-falls of having an AFL team in Launceston, a town of 60000 people.

Seriously, you have to get out of the state (as I did) and look on things from the outside to see how the blinkered attitudes down there hold things back. Frankly, I don`t think this AFL venture can work until a lot of Tasmanians grow up. And I am not holding my breath for that to happen.

I wasn't born in Tasmania, I did late schooling and university there and have been overseas for quite some time. You are getting personal without actually dealing with any of the points I made in the previous post. You are only attempting to sound dramatic, and I'm not buying it.

The state needs to get behind the venture as a whole, and bury the north-south stupidity in doing so. Simple as that.

So you are pro it being in Launceston, taken digs at those in Hobart for not traveling, and are telling others not to have an opinion on where it should be.
So if we have an opinion, its not doing the right thing for the state, but if you do, that's fine?

You wonder why people who live in Hobart go mental at that type of attitude. Its just ridiculous.

 

[sherb]

Re: U

Dramatic words used to degrade the person who are arguing against but is particularly pointless. An AFL side would not easily prosper in Tasmania, it would definitely take a lot of work. I just believe that an Hobart is a more realistic option for it to work than Launceston, and I think that is a reasonable statement.

What was childish or irrational in what I stated? Once again using big words to try and degrade someone, but has no relevance to what I said.

I stated people from around the whole state can't be bothered traveling, that is why you would have it in Hobart because you wouldn't have to rely on travel in a state where people don't like to travel.

You are the one being childish in your methods of arguing, as you are taking me completely out of context in order to favour your argument, and doing what you are actually accusing others of doing.

Sounds good in theory but it doesn't work that way in reality.

I wasn't born in Tasmania, I did late schooling and university there and have been overseas for quite some time. You are getting personal without actually dealing with any of the points I made in the previous post. You are only attempting to sound dramatic, and I'm not buying it.

So you are pro it being in Launceston, taken digs at those in Hobart for not traveling, and are telling others not to have an opinion on where it should be.
So if we have an opinion, its not doing the right thing for the state, but if you do, that's fine?

You wonder why people who live in Hobart go mental at that type of attitude. Its just ridiculous.

My post was in no way directed at you personally, it was with regards to the Tasmanian population in general (at least a significant proportion of it). I would ask you to re-read the post with that in mind please, no offence was intended to you at all.

Re your second last paragraph, if you had interpreted my post as I intended, I am pro it being in Launceston because the stadium is already there. I consider spending millions and millions on upgrading a stadium when one is already in place to be an extravagance.

If the stadium was already in Hobart, I would take exactly the same stance and equally expect people from elsewhere in the state to travel there to support the side. That is the point I was attempting to make in my second-last paragraph.

As I said, the Tasmanian people need to support this venture en masse (both by membership and by attendance) irrespective of where the team may be located and where they live. From my own experience, I reiterate my strong doubts that this is possible.

 

[Chuq]

Geelong population= 209,000
Hobart population =205,000...

Launceston population =68,000


source 2005 sensus

Apart from the fact there wasn't a census in 2005, you are comparing the Greater Hobart Stastical Division with the Launceston Urban Centre.

Comparing Statistical Divisions:

Greater Hobart: 207,484
Launceston: 104,071
Burnie-Devonport: 80,241

Comparing Urban Areas:

Hobart: 128,557
Launceston: 71,395
(Burnie and Devonport outside the top 50 - less than 23k each)

What's the difference - Hobart Statistical Division includes Bridgewater-Gagebrook, Old Beach, Kingston-Blackmans Bay, New Norfolk, Sorell - but the Urban Area doesn't. I think Launceston Statistical Division includes the Tamar Valley (all the way up the river, both sides) but the Urban Area would stop at Riverside/Newnham.

 

[Blues_Man]

The washup is that there is only one viable stadium and that is in Launceston .
I'm afraid any AFL team would have to play out of launceston simply because of that fact . end of story .

 

[TWillisetti7]

hahah, sorry you guys have got no chance of getting an AFL team in Tassy judging from some of the lame posts here.

Shame, I'd like to see it happen

 

[TWillisetti7]

Apart from the fact there wasn't a census in 2005, you are comparing the Greater Hobart Stastical Division with the Launceston Urban Centre.

Comparing Statistical Divisions:

Greater Hobart: 207,484
Launceston: 104,071
Burnie-Devonport: 80,241

Comparing Urban Areas:

Hobart: 128,557
Launceston: 71,395
(Burnie and Devonport outside the top 50 - less than 23k each)

What's the difference - Hobart Statistical Division includes Bridgewater-Gagebrook, Old Beach, Kingston-Blackmans Bay, New Norfolk, Sorell - but the Urban Area doesn't. I think Launceston Statistical Division includes the Tamar Valley (all the way up the river, both sides) but the Urban Area would stop at Riverside/Newnham.

mate, have you been to Hobart?! those areas you talk of- Bridgewater, Kingston et al are part of Hobart just as much as Essondon and Footscray are part of Melbourne. To compare the population of Launceston is laughable....

what is wrong with the people in Launceston- there seems to be an emmense inferiority complex down there

 

[cs61]

More the double in size in a pretty decent figure i would have thought, especially given Sorrell and those areas aren't far from Hobart either.

 

[Blues_Man]

The population of Tasmania is dived in half ..between the North and south ...the North have the football stadium ..the south don't .
end of story.

 

[medusala]

The population of Tasmania is dived in half ..between the North and south ...the North have the football stadium ..the south don't .
end of story.

That is misleading given the Northern half is spread out over a massive area whereas the Souths is far more concentrated.

Compare the population from 30min drive from the centre of Launceston and Hobart and you get a massive difference.

 

[cs61]

That is misleading given the Northern half is spread out over a massive area whereas the Souths is far more concentrated.

Compare the population from 30min drive from the centre of Launceston and Hobart and you get a massive difference.

You could say it 100 times and it would make no difference.

 

[Blues_Man]

That is misleading given the Northern half is spread out over a massive area whereas the Souths is far more concentrated.

Compare the population from 30min drive from the centre of Launceston and Hobart and you get a massive difference.

It doesn't matter if the pupulation is spread out ..it's a fact that half the population live in the North of the state ..AND the only stadium is also in the North of the state ..those facts are irrefutable, people attending football matches do not worry about driving more than 30 minutes to get to the ground ..thats just ridiculous.

 

[FordGTHO]

Having stayed in both Launceston, and Hobart i can't see the reasoning for selecting Hobart as the base for a Tassie side, Launceston is much easier to get to from the mainland, and already has a great little stadium.

 

[TWillisetti7]

Having stayed in both Launceston, and Hobart i can't see the reasoning for selecting Hobart as the base for a Tassie side, Launceston is much easier to get to from the mainland, and already has a great little stadium.

Yeah that 15 more minutes in the plane is a killer...you've got to be kidding. How is the weather in Launnie mate?

 

[Father Jack]

mate, have you been to Hobart?! those areas you talk of- Bridgewater, Kingston et al are part of Hobart just as much as Essondon and Footscray are part of Melbourne. To compare the population of Launceston is laughable....

what is wrong with the people in Launceston- there seems to be an emmense inferiority complex down there

We aren't comparing the population of Hobart to Launceston. Stop setting up strawmen.

 

[TWillisetti7]

Well, it seems you could throw good arguements at the folks from Launceston until the cows come home, and they'll just reiterate their same lame parochial arguments.

The truth is they just don't like playing second fiddle, they want to be the capital. I know this from the three years I lived there. The quite ridiculous statements I've heard in that town about how they feel about their southern cousins are absurd.
When I lived in Hobart, on the other hand, the general approach was inclusive of the whole island even including Launceston (although often with a wry and tollerant smile)

Give your capital city the respect it deserves and you might even acheive something down there.

 

[TWillisetti7]

We aren't comparing the population of Hobart to Launceston. Stop setting up strawmen.

get with the program

 

[Father Jack]

Well, it seems you could throw good arguements at the folks from Launceston until the cows come home, and they'll just reiterate their same lame parochial arguments.

The truth is they just don't like playing second fiddle, they want to be the capital. I know this from the three years I lived there. The quite ridiculous statements I've heard in that town about how they feel about their southern cousins are absurd.
When I lived in Hobart, on the other hand, the general approach was inclusive of the whole island even including Launceston (although often with a wry and tollerant smile)

Give your capital city the respect it deserves and you might even acheive something down there.

 

[TWillisetti7]

Re: U

If there was any degree of maturity among the Tasmanian population as a whole, an AFL side would easily prosper irrespective of where it was located.

However, it is apparently more important to have the childish and irrational regional hatred and rivalry than to unite as a state to work together on something as important as this.

It appears to me that it is more important to many Tasmanians not to support a side because it may be based in the opposite end of the state than to actually support it because it is Tasmanian. If, as you say, people in the south cannot be bothered to drive two hours to watch a game of AFL footy, it merely reinforces this view.

You will not change my mind on this. In the short term, it is absolutely ridiculous to spend a substantial amount on updating a stadium in the south when there is one in the north. Make that a longer term aim by all means, but as I pointed out there are more important things to spend money on in the short term. In the meantime, people can get off their backsides and travel - in support of their own side.

Seriously, you have to get out of the state (as I did) and look on things from the outside to see how the blinkered attitudes down there hold things back. Frankly, I don`t think this AFL venture can work until a lot of Tasmanians grow up. And I am not holding my breath for that to happen.

If you think that is harsh, too bad I guess. It is spoken by someone who would love to see an AFL side in Tassie and loves the state, but equally (living now as an outsider) can see the impediments to the proposed venture`s success. Incidentally, I will say that I am a Northerner by birth, but if the AFL quality stadium was already in place in the south I would be making exactly the same arguments.

The state needs to get behind the venture as a whole, and bury the north-south stupidity in doing so. Simple as that.

just a question, it's not loaded.
What percentage of Sydney would travel down to Woolingong every second week to support the Swans?

 

[cs61]

Well, it seems you could throw good arguements at the folks from Launceston until the cows come home, and they'll just reiterate their same lame parochial arguments.

The truth is they just don't like playing second fiddle, they want to be the capital. I know this from the three years I lived there. The quite ridiculous statements I've heard in that town about how they feel about their southern cousins are absurd.
When I lived in Hobart, on the other hand, the general approach was inclusive of the whole island even including Launceston (although often with a wry and tollerant smile)

Give your capital city the respect it deserves and you might even acheive something down there.

Yeah its definitely that, as if you read through the lines of the posts you'll see pot shots about the weather and rubbish like that. It is a total lack of respect, and its a thing of superiority Launceston likes to feel, and they will do anything to hold on to that, however irrationally it may be.

No matter what is said in favour of Hobart, and against arguments for Launceston, it wont be accepted from the North half of the state. It will just be ignored and the same trite said over and over again.

Hobart admit they have been slack in getting a stadium, but I find curious that no one from Launceston can accept that there are down-falls of putting an AFL team in a town of 60000-80000, compared to a place the same size as Geelong.