Expansion Launceston or Hobart???

[TWillisetti7]

The only AFL ground is in Launceston. Deal with it.

Please don't be miopic and naive.

Any serious bid would involve significant investment in infrastructure making the loose change already spent on York park obsolete.

10 million is a drop in the can when we are talking about either construction projects or the business of AFL.

 

[cs61]

The Scottsdale area I refer to is covered by the Dorset Council population >7k. I realise not greatly signiicant but strong sporting ties.

Do you honestly think its important that a small proportion of that town could get to the game, over the reality that the majority of people from the Hobart region (200k plus) wouldn't go to the games because of it being based in Launceston.

I have regularly used the Melbourne train service and Melbourne roads. Driving Devonport to Launceston is infinitely more comfortable and probably about the same time on averages.

But that means nothing in reality to the over-all situation, which is that you are attracting very little from where the majority of the people in the state live. You are saying its not important about the majority, just as long as all the minorities have some access to the game if they want.

Its just a crazy thought process.

Its great that Scotsdale has a a proud sporting heritage, but does Waga Waga and many country towns in Melbourne. Should you split the games in between those areas, or have it in where population area is significantly the most dense?

 

[Blues_Man]

That's a bit stupid to say.

You are talking the long term sucess of an AFL team, and Bellerive is already an internatoinal standard cricket ground.

I'm sure if the state decided it would be better off mamimizing returns in Hobart, they would invest in Bellerive as they should have done a long long time ago.

What utter garbage you lot from down south come up with ...i've asked you 3 times in this thread to let us know where the 50 -60 million will come from to develop a stadium in hobart..and each time you have conveniently dodged the question .
The population of Tasmania is spread 50/50 between the North and the south...so any population based arguments is futile.

Good to hear Bellreive is an approved cricket ground .that will come in very handy for cricket matches ..but means sfa when discussing football .

 

[TWillisetti7]

Hey, I've got a great idea. lets make the main footy ground in Victoria at Ballarat! same principal

 

[Dyerhard]

I was raised in Launceston, went to uni. in Hobart and have worked on the NW coast. I now live in Hobart. If AFL recruits don't want to move to Adelaide because they think it's a hole, imagine what they'd think about Launceston! Not to mention the support staff.

 

[Blues_Man]

North East? Not too many people living in up near Gladstone. As for NW, even Devonport to Launceston is a decent trip. One of the reasons behind the statewide league failing was the distance involved. Cricket also gave up having games played all over the state.

There is no doubt that York Park is better than any Hobart ground yet this is not enough to overcome demographic issues.

Do you know what the bid submission says regarding a home ground? I assume they have looked at this in great detail including whether or not the state govt will throw cash at a stadium in Hobart.

Gee you really don't know much about your old home state do you ..statewide league is to be revived starting in 09..and anyone who considers a drive from Launceston to Devonport as long drive can't drive very far..because it's not even an hour away by car.
As if the state government would have a spare 50 or 60 million dollars availabe to throw cash at a hobart stadium .
so much rhetoric in this thread without one iota of knowledge.

 

[XFactor1979]

the afl aint never expanding. not west sydney. having 18 clubs will be like that movie "Cheaper by the dozen", starring steve martin.

ie a painful experience and you cant wait for it to end, rather than being a joyful, blissful comedy!

its ridiculous that folks from the southern states say that afl is australia's game

when its not even played in the northern states

COME TO SYDNEY, and read the daily paper

turn 14 pages from the back page. NO AFL news

 

[TWillisetti7]

I have the feeling this debate could outlast religion.

The Tasmanian State government really need to conduct an impartial study into the ecconomics, demographics and public opinions and preferences to put this prelude debate to bed before Tassy can get serious about sporting a team.

 

[cs61]

What utter garbage you lot from down south come up with ...i've asked you 3 times in this thread to let us know where the 50 -60 million will come from to develop a stadium in hobart..and each time you have conveniently dodged the question .
The population of Tasmania is spread 50/50 between the North and the south...so any population based arguments is futile.

Good to hear Bellreive is an approved cricket ground .that will come in very handy for cricket matches ..but means sfa when discussing football .

I've already said Hobart has got problems with the stadium, and is something that is caused problems with the state drive.

I don't blindly follow the North or South, I'm a realist, and have doubts of a team working in either location, but have state about 50 times that have no doubt Hobart long term would need to be the location if they were going to be serious about it.

I chose not to respond to you, because your arguments on the topics are limited to say the least.

I don't pretend to know exactly how they are going to go about getting a stadium in Hobart, just because I've read a brief figure in a newspaper article, and pretend to be an expert on the situation because of these figures like you are doing. Its a little more complicated than that. If the AFL Tasmania thinks that Hobart would be a better location, then of course they would look at getting a stadium up and running. This is a long term investment over many many years, and if the government and afl believed the Hobart was the best location for a team to prosper, then obviously they would find a way to get Bellerive up to standard.

You writing off comments about Bellerive being an international standard ground being irrevlant is just childish. The fact that Bellerive is an international standard cricket ground is just showing that it is a good standard ground already, and it is certainly something worth developing as it is already at a high standard already in some capacity.

 

[cs61]

Gee you really don't know much about your old home state do you ..statewide league is to be revived starting in 09..and anyone who considers a drive from Launceston to Devonport as long drive can't drive very far..because it's not even an hour away by car.
As if the state government would have a spare 50 or 60 million dollars availabe to throw cash at a hobart stadium .
so much rhetoric in this thread without one iota of knowledge.

What knowledge are you providing exactly?

The distance between Launceston and Devonport? Great.....

Hobart area has more than Launceston Burnie and Devonport combined, and all within 15-25 minutes of that greater area.

You are suggesting wiping out the majority of the population area in terms of density as they wont travel to Launie, is worth it because some of Devonport and Burnie would travel down the Launceston.

 

[TWillisetti7]

I've already said Hobart has got problems with the stadium, and is something that is caused problems with the state drive.

I don't blindly follow the North or South, I'm a realist, and have doubts of a team working in either location, but have state about 50 times that have no doubt Hobart long term would need to be the location if they were going to be serious about it.

I chose not to respond to you, because your arguments on the topics are limited to say the least.

I don't pretend to know exactly how they are going to go about getting a stadium in Hobart, just because I've read a brief figure in a newspaper article, and pretend to be an expert on the situation because of these figures like you are doing. Its a little more complicated than that. If the AFL Tasmania thinks that Hobart would be a better location, then of course they would look at getting a stadium up and running. This is a long term investment over many many years, and if the government and afl believed the Hobart was the best location for a team to prosper, then obviously they would find a way to get Bellerive up to standard.

You writing off comments about Bellerive being an international standard ground being irrevlant is just childish. The fact that Bellerive is an international standard cricket ground is just showing that it is a good standard ground already, and it is certainly something worth developing as it is already at a high standard already in some capacity.

here here! eloquently put

 

[Bulldog Joe]

Do you honestly think its important that a small proportion of that town could get to the game, over the reality that the majority of people from the Hobart region (200k plus) wouldn't go to the games because of it being based in Launceston.



But that means nothing in reality to the over-all situation, which is that you are attracting very little from where the majority of the people in the state live. You are saying its not important about the majority, just as long as all the minorities have some access to the game if they want.

Its just a crazy thought process.

Its great that Scotsdale has a a proud sporting heritage, but does Waga Waga and many country towns in Melbourne. Should you split the games in between those areas, or have it in where population area is significantly the most dense?

No.
Please understand what I am saying - York Park Launceston is within 2 hours for 90% of the population.
The existing ground in Hobart (Bellerive) is limited to about 60% of the Tasmanian population.
There is no reason to suggest that Bellerive can attract better crowds.

The Hobart push for their own games is doomed as it will reduce the potential crowds in both areas.

The only hope is a central location (York Park) that can attract spectators from statewide.

Do not try to compare Hobart to places like Adelaide and Perth where the poulation is centralised around the one major urban centre. The population majority for the southern region is marginal at best. Tasmania is decentralised with basically half south half to the north.

If Tasmania is indeed to get a team it WILL be based in Launceston.

 

[TWillisetti7]

No.
Please understand what I am saying - York Park Launceston is within 2 hours for 90% of the population.
The existing ground in Hobart (Bellerive) is limited to about 60% of the Tasmanian population.
There is no reason to suggest that Bellerive can attract better crowds.

The Hobart push for their own games is doomed as it will reduce the potential crowds in both areas.

The only hope is a central location (York Park) that can attract spectators from statewide.

Do not try to compare Hobart to places like Adelaide and Perth where the poulation is centralised around the one major urban centre. The population majority for the southern region is marginal at best. Tasmania is decentralised with basically half south half to the north.

If Tasmania is indeed to get a team it WILL be based in Launceston.

It's like a broken record.

People won't travel the sort of distances you're talking about consistantly, one or two games a year sure, but not a full season of home games.

how many people need to tell you before you get it

 

[cs61]

I'm getting dizzy.

You wonder why the state doesn't have every major event in Launceston then if you are really considering what you are saying to be true.

Why doesn't? Because its ridiculous to think people travel that far just to meet at a central location.

You are ignoring the points that are being raised by the other side and just re-stating the mis-leading facts over and over.

 

[TWillisetti7]

I'm getting dizzy.

haha, yeah I'm hearing you mate

 

[cs61]

No.
Please understand what I am saying - York Park Launceston is within 2 hours for 90% of the population.
The existing ground in Hobart (Bellerive) is limited to about 60% of the Tasmanian population.
There is no reason to suggest that Bellerive can attract better crowds.

The Hobart push for their own games is doomed as it will reduce the potential crowds in both areas.

The only hope is a central location (York Park) that can attract spectators from statewide.

Do not try to compare Hobart to places like Adelaide and Perth where the poulation is centralised around the one major urban centre. The population majority for the southern region is marginal at best. Tasmania is decentralised with basically half south half to the north.

If Tasmania is indeed to get a team it WILL be based in Launceston.

Well then it is doomed to fail.

 

[XFactor1979]

if the afl is talking expansion gibberish why not talk about going to new zealand?

goodness knows what happened to south africa! the eagles preseason game was canned

or playing a pointless meaningless game between collingwood and adelaide in abu dhabi (muslim dubai!) in order to fulfil sponsorship committments. although the good thing was they managed to avoid the month of ramadan when that happened: great planning!

 

[TWillisetti7]

No.
Please understand what I am saying - York Park Launceston is within 2 hours for 90% of the population.
The existing ground in Hobart (Bellerive) is limited to about 60% of the Tasmanian population.
There is no reason to suggest that Bellerive can attract better crowds.

The Hobart push for their own games is doomed as it will reduce the potential crowds in both areas.

The only hope is a central location (York Park) that can attract spectators from statewide.

Do not try to compare Hobart to places like Adelaide and Perth where the poulation is centralised around the one major urban centre. The population majority for the southern region is marginal at best. Tasmania is decentralised with basically half south half to the north.

If Tasmania is indeed to get a team it WILL be based in Launceston.

Geelong population= 209,000
Hobart population =205,000...

Launceston population =68,000


source 2005 sensus

 

[nobbyiscool]

had to pipe up for a couple of reasons

- the first reason was to stick up to devonport! i've started to do a bit of driving around the eastern part of australia - the road from devonport to launceston (well, from burnie to launceston) is among the best roads i've ever driven on. brilliantly sealed, 2 lanes most of the way - if u get a good run, u can do it in 50 minutes. i've done it in 35 minutes (though i don't condone that)

- the second reason is to post a question. do people think that the current push for a team would have more credibility if hobart had a stadium? i love launceston, so i hate to say it - but i have to think that tassie would have a much bigger chance if hobart had a stadium. i wonder if the tassie government is considering this?

 

[Bulldog Joe]

had to pipe up for a couple of reasons

- the first reason was to stick up to devonport! i've started to do a bit of driving around the eastern part of australia - the road from devonport to launceston (well, from burnie to launceston) is among the best roads i've ever driven on. brilliantly sealed, 2 lanes most of the way - if u get a good run, u can do it in 50 minutes. i've done it in 35 minutes (though i don't condone that)

- the second reason is to post a question. do people think that the current push for a team would have more credibility if hobart had a stadium? i love launceston, so i hate to say it - but i have to think that tassie would have a much bigger chance if hobart had a stadium. i wonder if the tassie government is considering this?

I have stated previously that I do not see a Tasmanian side as viable.
The experience with the Tassie Devils is a strong indicator. I don't believe having a stadium in Hobart would have much of an influence.
The Tasmanian population is such that it needs to be embraced by the ENTIRE state to have any chance of success.

I do not see where they could get funding for another stadium, there has been enough negative publicity about the current Hawthorn sponsorship.

There have been plenty of comments posted pushing Hobart but the reasoning behind York Park and the current deal is making it viable by having the games within 2 hours drive of 90% of the population

Geelong population= 209,000
Hobart population =205,000...

Launceston population =68,000


source 2005 sensus

How is that relevant?
Geelong is also within 1 hour of millions from the greater Melbourne area.
You cannot compare Tasmania to Geelong unless you are asking why oranges are different to apples.

 

[Blues_Man]

had to pipe up for a couple of reasons

- the first reason was to stick up to devonport! i've started to do a bit of driving around the eastern part of australia - the road from devonport to launceston (well, from burnie to launceston) is among the best roads i've ever driven on. brilliantly sealed, 2 lanes most of the way - if u get a good run, u can do it in 50 minutes. i've done it in 35 minutes (though i don't condone that)

- the second reason is to post a question. do people think that the current push for a team would have more credibility if hobart had a stadium? i love launceston, so i hate to say it - but i have to think that tassie would have a much bigger chance if hobart had a stadium. i wonder if the tassie government is considering this?

Good to see somebody posting who has a little understanding of Tassie ..and is not just another hobartian who demands to have AFL in their city or none at all .
I don't believe an AFL team would survive in Tassie no matter where it was based ..we seen how well the Devils went didn't we .
The Tasmanian government does not have 50 - 60 million dollars to throw at football..end of story.
If ..and it's a huge if ..there ever is a Tassie side then it will be located in Launceston, just pure and simple logic tells us this.

 

[TWillisetti7]

I have stated previously that I do not see a Tasmanian side as viable.
The experience with the Tassie Devils is a strong indicator. I don't believe having a stadium in Hobart would have much of an influence.
The Tasmanian population is such that it needs to be embraced by the ENTIRE state to have any chance of success.

I do not see where they could get funding for another stadium, there has been enough negative publicity about the current Hawthorn sponsorship.

There have been plenty of comments posted pushing Hobart but the reasoning behind York Park and the current deal is making it viable by having the games within 2 hours drive of 90% of the population

quote=TWillisetti7
Geelong population= 209,000
Hobart population =205,000...

Launceston population =68,000


source 2005 sensus

How is that relevant?
Geelong is also within 1 hour of millions from the greater Melbourne area.
You cannot compare Tasmania to Geelong unless you are asking why oranges are different to apples.[/quote]



It is a statement about the support base for a team given the established logic that most people won't consistantly travel an hour to support their home team at its home ground...

after all, would you travel to Hobart for home games?

 

[TWillisetti7]

Good to see somebody posting who has a little understanding of Tassie ..and is not just another hobartian who demands to have AFL in their city or none at all .
I don't believe an AFL team would survive in Tassie no matter where it was based ..we seen how well the Devils went didn't we .
The Tasmanian government does not have 50 - 60 million dollars to throw at football..end of story.
If ..and it's a huge if ..there ever is a Tassie side then it will be located in Launceston, just pure and simple logic tells us this.

I think you may have missed the point Nobbyiscool was making.

He was saying if Tassy wants to put in a competetive bid it would have much more chance if it had a stadium in Hobart.

 

[Father Jack]

Hey, I've got a great idea. lets make the main footy ground in Victoria at Ballarat! same principal

No it isn't. Not even close.

 

[nobbyiscool]

so is it relevant that u can get a $49 flight from melbourne to launceston and its only a one hour flight?

i'm not sure...


also, i don't think a team needs $50m in turnover to survive... a team could survive on $25m turnover - everyone was doing that 6 years ago... i would hazard a guess that the bulldogs, port and melbourne are still doing so now.

the devils argument is null and void here as well, except to prove that bellerive oval cannot be considered an option. the middle of the ground is a bog, the parking is horrible, and people won't go there. (i watch with interest the argument about who will travel where... because except for finals games, hobart people weren't even prepared to travel to the eastern shore to watch the devils)


i'm not sure if i even have a point... just some random musings...

i guess at the end of the day, i'd love to see it happen... but there's just too many reasons that it cant.

if it does happen, i do still think it needs to be in launceston based on the stadium... i think tassie would have more chance of getting a team (although perhaps not a succesful team) if hobart had a stadium... but i'm not really sure it makes a difference as to whether the team would survive, thrive, or be succesful...


edit: have many details of the tassie government submission been released down there? i'd love to know where the money is projected to come from... because i could see a situation where tassie would have to play "home" games against collingwood and essendon at the mcg just to raise the money...