Lewis Taylor vs Lachie Neale

[Dom PC]

Surely you can recognise the gulf in quality between the two?

Actually, comparing Neale and Beams might be a more worthwhile exercise, as they are actually similar types with similar output.

I never said Neale wasn't better - Taylor's output certainly doesn't match Neale's season. I wouldn't write off Taylor to reach Neale's current level however. If you check Neale's stats at the same age they are pretty much dead even.

Beams vs Neale. I think most would be hard pressed to pass up on Beams.

 

[Damon_3388]

I never said Neale wasn't better - Taylor's output certainly doesn't match Neale's season. I wouldn't write off Taylor to reach Neale's current level however. If you check Neale's stats at the same age they are pretty much dead even.

Well it would take a monumental shift in how Taylor plays the game, to become the rare beast that Neale is - a contested/clearance beast who is also an elite, damaging ball user. Taylor looks like he's almost scared of contact, and barely knows what a contested possession is at this stage. Even if he becomes an elite outside player, he'd need to improve his decision-making and increase his directness and general "hurt factor" a ton to get there.

 

[iBeng]

THIS JUST IN: Second year small forward/outside player not as good as a fourth year inside midfielder.

COMING UP: 10 Reasons why Jesse White could be the next Lance Franklin.

 

[Dom PC]

Well it would take a monumental shift in how Taylor plays the game, to become the rare beast that Neale is - a contested/clearance beast who is also an elite, damaging ball user. Taylor looks like he's almost scared of contact, and barely knows what a contested possession is at this stage. Even if he becomes an elite outside player, he'd need to improve his decision-making and increase his directness and general "hurt factor" a ton to get there.

Taylor is only getting 3 less contested possessions per game than Neale was at the same age. I think you might be exaggerating Taylor's apparent lack of contested game a little. Sure it's not perfect, but he certainly isn't afraid of the contest like you've suggested.

Taylor's skills are more than fine (kicks very accurately off both feet in fact), decision making will come with experience, directness will come when we have a key forward to kick to that isnt 19 years old and I'll suggest his hurt factor will improve drastically when he plays in a team that has a better win ratio than 15% and kicks more than 65 points a game.

Just to double confirm to anyone reading my posts, I'm certainly not suggesting Lewy is better than Neale, but I'd suggest he is on par with him at the same age in terms of output.

 

[The Joker]

Go watch the rd3 derby and look at how good Neale was, do you ever see Lewis playing like that? 42D 10M 3G.

I vote Lewis Taylor

 

[Bender571]

I don't think it's that unthinkable to compare different types of players. Recruiters have to do it every draft. If both players decided to nominate for the draft and you don't have to worry about team needs, I think you generally have to go with the player who has the runs on the board. Taylor looks like a handy player and could possibly play at a higher level than Neale currently is, but it's no guarantee.

Comparisons at the same age are understandable, but I think make just the issue more complex. Lewis has played every possible game (35) in a struggling Brisbane team. At the same age Neale was trying to break into the midfield of a grand finalist and only ended up playing 23 games in his first 2 seasons, often as the sub.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Neale has played with a successful team, Taylor with a rabble

 

[Yolo Swaggins]

Neale easily

 

[jakson68]

Neale and not even close. Close thread

 

[askdotcom]

agree close thread.

 

[Damon_3388]

Taylor is only getting 3 less contested possessions per game than Neale was at the same age. I think you might be exadurating Taylor's apparent lack of contested game a little. Sure it's not perfect, but he certainly isn't afraid of the contest like you've suggested.

Taylor 2015 - 21.4 disposals per game, 24.1% contested possessions, 75.2% disposal efficiency, 3.1 clangers per game, 4.8 marks per game, 0.6 goals per game, 0.2 goal assists per game, 2.2 inside 50s per game, 1.6 rebound 50s per game, 1.0 clearances per game, 1.7 tackles per game, 81.8% time on ground, 73.6 Champion Data Player Ranking Score average

Neale 2013 - 19.8 disposals per game, 42.7% contested possessions, 77.2% disposal efficiency, 1.8 clangers per game, 3.3 marks per game, 0.7 goals per game, 0.6 goal assists per game, 1.9 inside 50s per game, 1.2 rebound 50s per game, 3.0 clearances per game, 1.7 tackles per game, 65.8% time on ground, 77.2 Champion Data Player Ranking Score average

Again, Taylor would have to change his entire game to emulate Neale, even if it was Year 2 Neale. Really not similar types of footballers at all, at any stage. I don't think Taylor will end up being the more effective footballer with his style than Neale is with his now, either.

 

[Dom PC]

Taylor 2015 - 21.4 disposals per game, 24.1% contested possessions, 75.2% disposal efficiency, 3.1 clangers per game, 4.8 marks per game, 0.6 goals per game, 0.2 goal assists per game, 2.2 inside 50s per game, 1.6 rebound 50s per game, 1.0 clearances per game, 1.7 tackles per game, 81.8% time on ground, 73.6 Champion Data Player Ranking Score average

Neale 2013 - 19.8 disposals per game, 42.7% contested possessions, 77.2% disposal efficiency, 1.8 clangers per game, 3.3 marks per game, 0.7 goals per game, 0.6 goal assists per game, 1.9 inside 50s per game, 1.2 rebound 50s per game, 3.0 clearances per game, 1.7 tackles per game, 65.8% time on ground, 77.2 Champion Data Player Ranking Score average

Again, Taylor would have to change his entire game to emulate Neale, even if it was Year 2 Neale. Really not similar types of footballers at all, at any stage. I don't think Taylor will end up being the more effective footballer with his style than Neale is with his now, either.

Those stats are very similar... except one is doing it in a struggling team.

I love how you turned the contested possessions into a % rather than simply acknowledge that Neale was only getting 3 extra contested possessions a game at the same age.

I'm not even arguing that Taylor will be the same type of player. I'm just saying your argument about Taylor having absolutely no contested game clearly is wrong (just look at your stats for evidence).

 

[Taylor]

Those stats are very similar... except one is doing it in a struggling team.

I love how you turned the contested possessions into a % rather than simply acknowledge that Neale was only getting 3 extra contested possessions a game at the same age.

I'm not even arguing that Taylor will be the same type of player. I'm just saying your argument about Taylor having absolutely no contested game clearly is wrong (just look at your stats for evidence).

Taylor is getting more outside ball and still turning it over more, even though his stats could be padded by long kicks (40m+) going to a contest or grass counting as effective.

 

[Damon_3388]

Those stats are very similar... except one is doing it in a struggling team.

You are taking into account that 2014 Neale still matches beats Taylor in nearly every category there (even the things a player of Taylor's type should be excelling in, like disposal efficiency, goals, goal assists, inside 50s, and avoiding clangers), despite playing 16% less time on ground each game, right?

I love how you turned the contested possessions into a % rather than simply acknowledge that Neale was only getting 3 extra contested possessions a game at the same age.

A percentage is a better indicator of how much of your possession is actually contested. Just using total and average doesn't really tell us anything as to what type of player they are. It's akin to saying "Player X got 25 disposals, therefore he must have had a great game". It's a dumb, unsophisticated assessment.

I'm just saying your argument about Taylor having absolutely no contested game clearly is wrong (just look at your stats for evidence).

It's not. Taylor gets barely any clearances, a low percentage of contested possessions, and hardly tackles. He's not a good inside/contested ball player. Nothing wrong with that, but until he improves his hurt factor on the outside (and he's got plenty of time to do it), he won't really be anything more than an average footballer overall.

 

[Dom PC]

You are taking into account that 2014 Neale still matches beats Taylor in nearly every category there (even the things a player of Taylor's type should be excelling in, like disposal efficiency, goals, goal assists, inside 50s, and avoiding clangers), despite playing 16% less time on ground each game, right?

Are you taking into account this:-
Neale in 2013 - Freo averaged 93 points for and 74 points against vs Taylor in 2015 - Bris average 70 points for and 107 against.

In other words, you're saying a player in the grand final team would have the same disposal efficiency, goals, goal assists, inside 50s and less clangers than a team coming last on the table? Your joking right?

As for time on ground, I agree that is a factor. But it can be interpreted any which way. Maybe Neale was good enough to be in the team, but not durable or fit enough for example.

A percentage is a better indicator of how much of your possession is actually contested. Just using total and average doesn't really tell us anything as to what type of player they are. It's akin to saying "Player X got 25 disposals, therefore he must have had a great game". It's a dumb, unsophisticated assessment.

So a player who gets 40 disposals (15 contested and 25 uncontested) in a game is a worse contested player than one who gets 20 disposals (10 contested and 10 uncontested possessions). I.e. 37.50% contested vs 50% contested. You might want to think that logic over...

It's not. Taylor gets barely any clearances, a low percentage of contested possessions, and hardly tackles. He's not a good inside/contested ball player. Nothing wrong with that, but until he improves his hurt factor on the outside (and he's got plenty of time to do it), he won't really be anything more than an average footballer overall.

So he has no contested game what so ever and yet he is averaging only 3 less contested possessions and the same amount of tackles as Neale was at the same age. Okay.

 

[Damon_3388]

So a player who gets 40 disposals (15 contested and 25 uncontested) in a game is a worse contested player than one who gets 20 disposals (10 contested and 10 uncontested possessions). I.e. 37.50% contested vs 50% contested. You might want to think that logic over...

I'm not saying better or worse as overall players in that regard. Being a contested ball player doesn't necessarily make you a good or better player. Just simply stating that Neale at all stages has clearly been a much superior contested ball winner, and that Taylor has a fairly low percentage of contested ball (compared to most other players), which tends to indicate that it's not an area of strength in his game.

So he has no contested game what so ever and yet he is averaging only 3 less contested possessions and the same amount of tackles as Neale was at the same age. Okay.

Taylor is playing far more gametime (for less than two possessions per game more overall), and getting a far lower percentage of contested footy at the same age.

Not sure why the obvious difference is so hard for you to comprehend.

 

[Dom PC]

I'm not saying better or worse as overall players in that regard. Being a contested ball player doesn't necessarily make you a good or better player. Just simply stating that Neale at all stages has clearly been a much superior contested ball winner, and that Taylor has a fairly low percentage of contested ball (compared to most other players), which tends to indicate that it's not an area of strength in his game.

Taylor is playing far more gametime (for less than two possessions per game more overall), and getting a far lower percentage of contested footy at the same age.

Not sure why the obvious difference is so hard for you to comprehend.

I'm not even arguing that Taylor has a better contested game than Neale I think you should re-read my posts to better "comprehend" what points I was making.

 

[Damon_3388]

I'm not even arguing that Taylor has a better contested game than Neale I think you should re-read my posts to better "comprehend" what points I was making.

The fact that you're implying that Taylor's contested game is anything above "average-to-poor" at this stage is stupid.

 

[Dom PC]

The fact that you're implying that Taylor's contested game is anything above "average-to-poor" at this stage is stupid.

I think average-to-poor is a good way to put it I was never was suggesting it was good, more that it wasn't non-existent.

 

[Damon_3388]

I think average-to-poor is a good way to put it I was never was suggesting it was good, more that it wasn't non-existent.

I think you're being pretty pedantic and literal to be arguing over it. I would think it was obvious that saying "non-existent" in this context is relative, not meaning literally "zero".

 

[askdotcom]

I think you're being pretty pedantic and literal to be arguing over it. I would think it was obvious that saying "non-existent" in this context is relative, not meaning literally "zero".

im pretty sure he had a contested possesion a few weeks back.