Speculation Liam Baker

[Jeremias]

Time for some house cleaning.

1) Do not drag discussions or individual posts over here from other threads or boards.

Feel free to respond to those posts wherever they were posted, if you so choose.

2) Enough with the personal attacks. It’s a long season and this one may go the distance, so if you want to remain a part of the discussion, do it respectfully.

We will use thread bans and infractions if necessary.

 

[docko911]

Doesnt that depend on the quality of the player being targeted at pick 3/4?

If it was a points trade alone you are correct. But it isnt.

The value which points dont take into consideration is the quality of rhe players being looked at. List strategy. And the number of picks you hold and how to best employ them.

Points aside - I don’t think your F2 and F3 is as valuable as Baker or pick 17.

I also don’t think the pick upgrade from 6 to 3 is worth Baker or pick 17 in this draft. You are guaranteed to get one of Smillie, FOS, Smith, Lalor, Draper, Reid or Langford at pick 6.

I think a more likely trade is Baker and pick 9 or 10 for pick 3. We may also trade you pick 21 for pick 30/Hawks F2 (if you get it from the Hawks) provided you get us band 3 compo for Graham….

And on that fancy new points table posted it values Baker around pick 18-19.

 

[Jugada]

No.

That is a different argument. A known player is different to a speculative pick, but you know this.

Do you reckon any club would give up pick 3 for pick 9 and a player who was a known quantity, that is something they want/require?

Its not a different argument. Its showing how pointless using a draft pick points calculator is for trading up at the elite end

 

[JackOutback]

Points aside - I don’t think your F2 and F3 is as valuable as Baker or pick 17.

I also don’t think the pick upgrade from 6 to 3 is worth Baker or pick 17 in this draft. You are guaranteed to get one of Smillie, FOS, Smith, Lalor, Draper, Reid or Langford at pick 6.

I think a more likely trade is Baker and pick 9 or 10 for pick 3. We may also trade you pick 21 for pick 30/Hawks F2 (if you get it from the Hawks) provided you get us band 3 compo for Graham….

And on that fancy new points table posted it values Baker around pick 18-19.

That's the point, we're not trading out of pick 3 without a guarantee of getting generally risk free proposition. Six gives us that. Why would we trade down to 9 when it starts to become a little more speculative. You may find pick 6 to be overpaying, in which case both sides walk away and we find another way to get Baker.

 

[WCE_authentic]

That's the point, we're not trading out of pick 3 without a guarantee of getting generally risk free proposition. Six gives us that. Why would we trade down to 9 when it starts to become a little more speculative. You may find pick 6 to be overpaying, in which case both sides walk away and we find another way to get Baker.

It's top three not six that are separated; Smith, Langford add Osullivan

Points aside - I don’t think your F2 and F3 is as valuable as Baker or pick 17.

I also don’t think the pick upgrade from 6 to 3 is worth Baker or pick 17 in this draft. You are guaranteed to get one of Smillie, FOS, Smith, Lalor, Draper, Reid or Langford at pick 6.

I think a more likely trade is Baker and pick 9 or 10 for pick 3. We may also trade you pick 21 for pick 30/Hawks F2 (if you get it from the Hawks) provided you get us band 3 compo for Graham….

And on that fancy new points table posted it values Baker around pick 18-19.

No, the top 3 (FOS, Smith, Langford) then has a massive gap (Draper, Reid) then basically everyone equal out to 25. I get Richmond need every player in the draft but you are dreaming comparing Baker the toyota carolla to the type of machines available in the top 3. The only way WCE trade out 3 is for a future first they know will be top 3 (ie only yours). Tell me which of FOS, Smith, Langford you are trading for Baker so I can remind you the next 15 years.

 

[docko911]

It's top three not six that are separated; Smith, Langford add Osullivan

No, the top 3 (FOS, Smith, Langford) then has a massive gap (Draper, Reid) then basically everyone equal out to 25. I get Richmond need every player in the draft but you are dreaming comparing Baker the toyota carolla to the type of machines available in the top 3. The only way WCE trade out 3 is for a future first they know will be top 3 (ie only yours). Tell me which of FOS, Smith, Langford you are trading for Baker so I can remind you the next 15 years.

It’s definitely not a top 3.

 

[garlic munchers]

He was in his second and third seasons of AFL. Across 2021 - 2024 he has averaged just under 20 disposals a game as a non-primary midfielder.

"Across 2021 - 2024 he has averaged just under 20 disposals a game as a non-primary midfielder".

Say it slowly and tell me it truly screams "middish 1st rounder" to you?

Then say out loud "West Coast, WC, WC", a club that is at least 3 years away from maybe, possibly, if it gets lucky, competing for finals........

Then just imagine trading for Baker with a Hopper 19 and 31 style trade, eeck.

If he was cracking over 20 possies a game you, would probably be suggesting a Taranto 12 and 19 style trade..... which would be doubly horrendous.

 

[eaglespremiers]

Please nominate Fremantle Please nominate Fremantle

EFA

 

[fargothegreat]

Not to mention that we're supposed to be happy with 12 + F2 from Hawthorn but for Gold Coast its pick 6 or bust. Same value but the carry on has been beyond ridiculous.

If Hawks pay more than that for a bloke turning 30 next year they're crazy.

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

Its not a different argument. Its showing how pointless using a draft pick points calculator is for trading up at the elite end

It's absolutely a different argument.

Do you want pick 25, or a bloke that will give you a guaranteed 100 games?





Sheesh.



Pick 25 is dartboard material.

Ask any half competent recruiter, pick 25 or Liam Baker for 6 seasons, and see what answer you get.

 

[Jugada]

It's absolutely a different argument.

Do you want pick 25, or a bloke that will give you a guaranteed 100 games?





Sheesh.



Pick 25 is dartboard material.

Ask any half competent recruiter, pick 25 or Liam Baker for 6 seasons, and see what answer you get.

You are making my point for me. You wouldn't swap Liam Baker for pick 25 so the fact that the pick upgrades come out on the calculator as pick 25 and you are happy with that should show how flawed the draft points system is

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

You are making my point for me. You wouldn't swap Liam Baker for pick 25 so the fact that the pick upgrades come out on the calculator as pick 25 and you are happy with that should show how flawed the draft points system is

Ummm, no.

I think pick 25 is fair for Baker.

I'm not one of these unrealistic supporters. He's a good player but a 2nd rounder is fair.

Nice try.

 

[Jugada]

Ummm, no.

I think pick 25 is fair for Baker.

I'm not one of these unrealistic supporters. He's a good player but a 2nd rounder is fair.

Nice try.

Lol what the **** are you even arguing then? All over the shop

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

Lol what the **** are you even arguing then? All over the shop

You argued it mate, not me.

I was commenting on other scenarios.

Get yourself together.

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

Lol what the **** are you even arguing then? All over the shop

Picks v players is a different argument.

End of.

Anyone who thinks picks are the same as established players is an idiot.

Are you an idiot?

 

[Jugada]

Picks v players is a different argument.

End of.

Anyone who thinks picks are the same as established players is an idiot.

Are you an idiot?

You are a strange unit mate

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

You are a strange unit mate

No, I'm not.

You're a strange unit if you're taking pick 25 ahead of a GUARANTEED player that will give you 6 yrs service

Glad you're not running my club

 

[King Huskii]

No, I'm not.

You're a strange unit if you're taking pick 25 ahead of a GUARANTEED player that will give you 6 yrs service

Glad you're not running my club

6 years is a stretch but I take your point

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

It's absolutely a different argument.

Do you want pick 25, or a bloke that will give you a guaranteed 100 games?





Sheesh.



Pick 25 is dartboard material.

Ask any half competent recruiter, pick 25 or Liam Baker for 6 seasons, and see what answer you get.

But the points system doesnt equate to actual trade value. Pick 3 gives WC perhaps the player they rated 1 and a midfield gun.

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

But the points system doesnt equate to actual trade value. Pick 3 gives WC perhaps the player they rated 1 and a midfield gun.

It's situation dependent, no doubt.

FWIW I don't think 3 will be involved. This all started when I had to explain to someone the (clickbait media) proposal involved a pick swap, not just pick 3.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

It's absolutely a different argument.

Do you want pick 25, or a bloke that will give you a guaranteed 100 games?





Sheesh.



Pick 25 is dartboard material.

Ask any half competent recruiter, pick 25 or Liam Baker for 6 seasons, and see what answer you get.

Would you give us pick 21 for Liam Duggan? Same concept... I doubt it

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

Would you give us pick 21 for Liam Duggan? Same concept... I doubt it

He's about to turn 28, so probably not.

A year or two ago, when we still were trying to hang on, yep, no problem. Real good player, always liked him. Dependable and consistent.

And I'm not the one saying Baker is worth X.

I'm on record (in here) as saying I think Richmond fans will be disappointed with what we end up getting.

 

[Tonythetiger]

No, I'm not.

You're a strange unit if you're taking pick 25 ahead of a GUARANTEED player that will give you 6 yrs service

Glad you're not running my club

We are all on a forum arguing about football. I think we are all pretty strange units.

 

[4Seasons]

Does anyone else's eyes glaze over when they see points being used as basis for a trade when neither team has anyone to match a bid on? Or is it just me?

No.
I also don't understand the stupidity of it.

 

[fnerd]

Can't wait to see who we pick with pick 3

Might even pick the next Liam baker!

 

[TY24]

No, I'm not.

You're a strange unit if you're taking pick 25 ahead of a GUARANTEED player that will give you 6 yrs service

Glad you're not running my club

Nothing is guaranteed in footy. Nothing.

Liam Baker could have a career ending head knock in his first game as an Eagle.

We could get 6 years out of him, we could 0 games out of him.

Established players are no more certain than draft picks.