Liam Jurrah being held by police -Sen

[westie88]

Where is the idea the victim was a 15 year old kid coming from? All the news reports are saying it was a 35 year old man. Liam Jurrah is a fit AFL footballer and no doubt experienced in the use of a machete. If he wanted to kill the man, he would have. That is probably why he hasn't been charged with attempted murder.

 

[Mofra]

Actually I do.

This attitude is the problem. You need to accept that you are a part of Australia and have to abide by the Australian laws.

Strong irony is strong.

A little research on the concepts of duplicity of identity and the parallels between crime & entrenched poverty works wonders.

 

[sTeeL]

If we want them to abide by our laws, we have to give them every chance to succeed in our country.

That might even mean that we advantage the aboriginal community in some areas (specifically education) for a while.

In general, they are though. They are paid more than us simple white Australians to attend school/university. They are given special housing dispensations. When it comes to criminal law, a close friend of mine who is a police officer states that they get off/slap on the wrist far more often. They get given free legal aid of a quality far superior than the standard bloke.

I recently was asked to attend court and there several aboriginals there clearly in some form of completely alcohol smashed state(or perhaps worse).

Three times I have been stopped by strangers walking down a street in my life trying to take my possessions. All 3 times were by Aboriginals. Its a cultural problem.

I dont know what the solution is, but I understand the problem. Its cultural. A lack of respect for the opportunities they are given, and watching all their fellow aboriginals walk around like they own everything and trashing what they like, and hassling random people walking down the street. Its an endless cycle. The kids see their parents and cousins do it. They follow suit.

 

[TradeDraft]

With him being Charged his AFL Career is Over and Dees have no Choice to Sack Him.

IF he is guilty he be in Jail for a very long time

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Not quite. The Jurrah incident includes the all-in brawl, the machete and a 35 year old man with serious head injuries. The other incident involves head injuries to a 15 year old, for which a 30 year old woman is being held.

Tragic for all concerned, football stars or not.

Yeah on further information coming to light it is obvious I got that one wrong. With the offences Jurrah and the other man have been charged with it is obviously more than just being caught up in a brawl.

Horrible for all concerned and as nobby said, this isn't a football story and I hope the media realise this and act mature enough for a change to not treat it in the same senationalist tabloid manner that they usually try to just to get the headline/keep the story going (I'm looking at you Hutchy and Barrett).

 

[MrPresident]

It makes me sick to think some people are trying to justify a machete attack based on 'culture'. FFS, sometimes there is no shade of grey. Sometimes it is black and white. Some things are universal sins.

A machete to the head is one of them. There is no justification for it. Whoever did it should and will spend years in jail.

I have a question for those of you who are arguing 'culture' with your twisted logic. When a muslim man murders his daughter right here in Australia because she dared to look at the wrong bloke, he'd argue in his culture his actions were perfectly justifiable.

According to the logic used by some here, we should just accept that and move on.

I respect different cultures, I'm a fan of this multicultural country. But 'culture' is secondary to the legal system. The legal system is above anything else. If it isn't, that's the first step to anarchy. Anyone who goes at someone with a machete deserves to spend years in jail.

For the sake of footy, I hope Jurrah is innocent.

 

[Higgs Boson]

A MUST listen! http://chirb.it/O1z82v

Cliffs? I can't access the link from work.

 

[westie88]

It makes me sick to think some people are trying to justify a machete attack based on 'culture'. FFS, sometimes there is no shade of grey. Sometimes it is black and white. Some things are universal sins.

A machete to the head is one of them. There is no justification for it. Whoever did it should and will spend years in jail.

I have a question for those of you who are arguing 'culture' with your twisted logic. When a muslim man murders his daughter right here in Australia because she dared to look at the wrong bloke, he'd argue in his culture his actions were perfectly justifiable.

According to the logic used by some here, we should just accept that and move on.

I respect different cultures, I'm a fan of this multicultural country. But 'culture' is secondary to the legal system. The legal system is above anything else. If it isn't, that's the first step to anarchy. Anyone who goes at someone with a machete deserves to spend years in jail.

For the sake of footy, I hope Jurrah is innocent.

The difference is, the muslim man CHOSE to come to Australia and join Australian society, and should therefore be subject to Australian law.
Indigenous people didn't exactly choose to be invaded and have colonial law imposed on us...

 

[fushy]

With him being Charged his AFL Career is Over and Dees have no Choice to Sack Him.

Yea i mean who needs to go to court or anything.

 

[MaddAdam]

You do get the irony of this post right? "the danger of other cultures' values being super-imposed onto our own in a legal sense."
What do you think has been done to Indigenous nations for the last 224 years???

Oh, of course. Don't for a second think I'm not intimately aware of all this and the utterly depressing realities that indigenous people live.

My point is though that the law has to be applied equally or it may as well not be applied at all.

Now obviously there's shades of grey: am I some Andrew Bolt comment leaver who talks about how "they" get all this extra funding and welfare and they should just act like us and that?

No, of course not. The level of disadvantageand historical injustice requires us at many, many levels to try and address some of those problems and if that means I don't get a 100 per cent return on my taxes, then I'm happy to pay it.

But I'm afraid when we start talking about crimes against the person, very serious crimes of violence, I'm very wary of various stuff that gets bandied about "how it is different in those cultures".

There's very high levels of domestic violence in indigenous communities: I don't see many indigenous women just accepting it part of the culture. No, I see them, quite rightly, demanding the same protection as available elsewhere and for their menfolk to realise what they are doing is wrong an unacceptable.

The same with this: a "tribal" conflict or ongoing honour system is not an excuse to start macheteing someone in the head.

When Serb and Croat fans fight at soccer games do say "Oh, but this an ancient conflict etc".

I'm sorry but when we start talking about serious crimes of violence, the law must be applied equally for all.

(Even if I recognise that, especially for indigenous people, this doesn't always happen.)

 

[Ron The Bear]

It is handed down by oral tradition, and yes, as with the laws of every other nation on earth, it does change and adapt to suit changing circumstances. Indigenous culture is not a stagnant thing from 224 years ago, it is a living, changing reality of life for us today.

I understand the Australian legal system recognises Aboriginal law to an extent, and more so in NT than anywhere else. If this incident is deemed by elders to be subject to tribal law, do you think there is a possibility that such a high profile case will be left to the elders to settle?

 

[Simpleskills]

The difference is, the muslim man CHOSE to come to Australia and join Australian society, and should therefore be subject to Australian law.
Indigenous people didn't exactly choose to be invaded and have colonial law imposed on us...

Wow you are missing the point completely. It honestly seems like you are trying to defend this attack using "Aboriginal Law" and "Tribal traditions"? Everyone knows these traditions arn't held in any regard by 90% of Aboriginal's these days and are just used as an excuse to get what they want.

The point of the matter here is someone has been attacked with a machete. White or black, if Jurrah done it he needs to be locked up.

 

[Rumblah#16]

Wow you are missing the point completely. It honestly seems like you are trying to defend this attack using "Aboriginal Law" and "Tribal traditions"? Everyone knows these traditions arn't held in any regard by 90% of Aboriginal's these days and are just used as an excuse to get what they want.

The point of the matter here is someone has been attacked with a machete. White or black, if Jurrah done it he needs to be locked up.

+1.

6 machetes.

 

[TradeDraft]

Yea i mean who needs to go to court or anything.

Well sounds very Bad for Liam and Highly Doubt he did not do it

 

[westie88]

Wow you are missing the point completely. It honestly seems like you are trying to defend this attack using "Aboriginal Law" and "Tribal traditions"? Everyone knows these traditions arn't held in any regard by 90% of Aboriginal's these days and are just used as an excuse to get what they want.

The point of the matter here is someone has been attacked with a machete. White or black, if Jurrah done it he needs to be locked up.

I'm not defending any attack. I'm saying that if this incident is Liam Jurrah fulfilling his role as a senior lawman in the Warlpiri nation, and is based on a decision made by the council of elders to end the cycle of violence between the Warlpiri families that has been going on for 18 months, the law of the sovereign Warlpiri nation takes precedence over the imposed colonial law of the Australian/NT Governments.
Aboriginal people who are disconnected from their traditional nation and stuck in a no-man's land between their nation's culture and Australian culture tend to ignore both tribal and Australian laws. For Indigenous people who are connected to their nation and its culture, the law passed down by our elders takes absolute precedence over any Australian law.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Well sounds very Bad for Liam and Highly Doubt he did not do it

you're a clown. If it was a Collingwood player you'd be defending him to the nth degree; but because it's a Melbourne player you don't even think due process is appropriate. You've judged him on media reports.

What a joke

 

[TAITA]

The difference is, the muslim man CHOSE to come to Australia and join Australian society, and should therefore be subject to Australian law.
Indigenous people didn't exactly choose to be invaded and have colonial law imposed on us...

You make it sound like the invasion happened to you, personally, just yesterday.

It was 224 years ago - time to move on.

The man who has both eyes focused on the injustices of the past never gets an opportunity to look at the future.

 

[Crows4Eva]

The problem is that Indiginous law is not recognised on any level as official, and under the Australian justice system, is rendered vitually non-existant, the elders laws might take precedance within the culture of the indiginous people, but the laws of the country as a whole over-ride that in the eyes of the government.

Is it fair? Perhaps not, but that's how the world works and no-one ever said the world is fair.

 

[Simpleskills]

]\

I'm not defending any attack. I'm saying that if this incident is Liam Jurrah fulfilling his role as a senior lawman in the Warlpiri nation, and is based on a decision made by the council of elders to end the cycle of violence between the Warlpiri families that has been going on for 18 months, the law of the sovereign Warlpiri nation takes precedence over the imposed colonial law of the Australian/NT Governments.
Aboriginal people who are disconnected from their traditional nation and stuck in a no-man's land between their nation's culture and Australian culture tend to ignore both tribal and Australian laws. For Indigenous people who are connected to their nation and its culture, the law passed down by our elders takes absolute precedence over any Australian law.

Like I said, they shouldn't be using archaic laws to justify anything in our country.

 

[Bigeasy1]

Posters on here can shout "Tribal Law" or "Elders Law" until they are blue in the face.

Doesn't change the fact that he is sitting in a white mans jail right now and will be judged by a white man's court.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I'm not defending any attack. I'm saying that if this incident is Liam Jurrah fulfilling his role as a senior lawman in the Warlpiri nation, and is based on a decision made by the council of elders to end the cycle of violence between the Warlpiri families that has been going on for 18 months, the law of the sovereign Warlpiri nation takes precedence over the imposed colonial law of the Australian/NT Governments.

But now that Jurrah has been accused of hacking someone with a machete, the law of Australia takes precedence over Warlpiri law. And the vast majority of Australians would accept no other solution, because Australian justice is not about violence and retribution. Civilization has allowed us to evolve and change our attitudes and moral values. Islamic fundamentalism allows for no such learning process and remains out of touch with modern thinking on the question of justice. Aborigines cannot expect us to allow the practice of traditional but violent justice no matter how many centuries it may have been used to settle disputes.

 

[MaddAdam]

I'm not defending any attack. I'm saying that if this incident is Liam Jurrah fulfilling his role as a senior lawman in the Warlpiri nation, and is based on a decision made by the council of elders to end the cycle of violence between the Warlpiri families that has been going on for 18 months, the law of the sovereign Warlpiri nation takes precedence over the imposed colonial law of the Australian/NT Governments.

Aboriginal people who are disconnected from their traditional nation and stuck in a no-man's land between their nation's culture and Australian culture tend to ignore both tribal and Australian laws. For Indigenous people who are connected to their nation and its culture, the law passed down by our elders takes absolute precedence over any Australian law.

An interesting point.

I have often wondered why indigenous people have not conducted modern day armed resistance to white rule. Seriously - I wonder why there haven't been bombs at Flinders Street station type of thing. Organisations along the lines of Palestinian resistance or the IRA. For mine the justifactions are there.

The problem with declaring sovereign states is that the existing power structure responds with violence.

But the reality

 

[Arwib]

There's a difference between understanding and justifying.

There's a difference between empathising and excusing.

There's a difference between contextualising and defending.

I wish some people in this thread would understand that. This is a terrible situation, a complete mess, and all the "well everything would be fine if everyone just acted like white people" wishful thinking in the world helps precisely nobody.

 

[Forward Press]

I knew this thread would eventually descend into this racist and biased rubbish. It always happens the longer the discussion continues.

 

[evo]

An interesting point.

I have often wondered why indigenous people have not conducted modern day armed resistance to white rule. Seriously - I wonder why there haven't been bombs at Flinders Street station type of thing.

Low 'Will to Power'.