Liam Jurrah being held by police -Sen

[nobbyiscool]

props where it's due - at least 80% of this thread, even the bits I don't agree with, has been really mature.

it's important that this story isn't sensationalized as a football story, because it's not. it's actually a story of Australia, of tribalism and of family.

the majority of us can't understand this - so I think it's important that we don't try to and use our own values to judge. especially not before the facts are clear.

 

[dutchy12]

props where it's due - at least 80% of this thread, even the bits I don't agree with, has been really mature.

it's important that this story isn't sensationalized as a football story, because it's not. it's actually a story of Australia, of tribalism and of family.

the majority of us can't understand this - so I think it's important that we don't try to and use our own values to judge. especially not before the facts are clear.

Exactly my feelings.

It truly is just shattering

 

[Mr Crow!]

Unfortunately events like these occur when they have had too much "lady in boat".

 

[roostersgal4eva]

props where it's due - at least 80% of this thread, even the bits I don't agree with, has been really mature.

it's important that this story isn't sensationalized as a football story, because it's not. it's actually a story of Australia, of tribalism and of family.

the majority of us can't understand this - so I think it's important that we don't try to and use our own values to judge. especially not before the facts are clear.

Couldn't agree more

On the law side I would think the NT justice system would be aware of cultural differences and how to act - I hope

 

[Skids]

Just read on the Age website that Jurrah has been charged. This is selfish, but I was hoping that he was just caught up in it so he'd return to the field. I guess that won't happen until after the court case. And football is pretty insignificant given that a person has been seriously wounded...

As I said last night, I'm totally against tribal justice. An eye for an eye just ends up with everybody blind. But we don't know the full details in any case, that's for a trial, if there is one.

It's just a sad story all around. Looks like a community has been ripped apart.

 

[donbooger]

No, like it or not aboriginals live under the same laws we all do, if they get the benefits they get the punishments. You cant go cutting people up with machete.

 

[MaddAdam]

He has been charged with some VERY serious offences. This is not good for him.

He is - obviously - innocent until proven guilty.

But these legal matters are going to massively disrupt his season and its pretty clear that his personal affairs are already in a very serious state (having to leave work to attend to such matters).

I hope if he is indeed innocent he gets off. If he did do it though, well, bad luck.

Either way I doubt we'll be seeing much of him playing this year.

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

Liam has done both levels of initiation. I wouldn't call him an Elder but he has always had a lot of respect because of how seriously he takes the culture. He is well on his way to be considered a leader of the community though.

I married into the Warlpiri over a decade ago. I've only visited Yuendumu once though as my ex was from the other main town called Lajamanu where I have stayed a few times. I have a young man from Lajamanu, my nephew, come and stay with me to play footy in Melbourne so I'm still connected to the community. I also raise all the kids from my marriage so will always have a strong connection anyhow.

The Warlpiri take their culture very seriously and though they are mostly members of the Baptist church still practice all the traditional ceremonies and believe in the old spirituality/religion as well as the superstitions that go with that. There is a very rigid kinship system that is complicated for us as outsiders to understand at first but it makes perfect sense to them and really is an ingenious way to avoid in-breeding in a people of a small population.

This kinship system has all sorts of obligations tied to it and certain people have to administer punishment to certain people. Of course payback and punishment for breaking the law get muddled up often. Liam could have had his hand forced to be involved in this. Unfortunately white law doesn't allow this to occur off their land, and Alice Springs isn't their land. In their communities the police will often turn a blind eye to certain punishments, even on occasion capital punishment.

Of course there is an investigation going on and I've heard nothing from my nephew or sister-in-law so I'd only be speculating like the rest of you. So there is a good chance that Liam has done nothing wrong at all. Also he may just be an accessory after the fact if he was asked to watch the machete for someone else.

I'm not sure what is going on with Liam at the moment. I will say that Yuendumu has been in a bad way lately. Anyone on here who is from North Adelaide will know that as many people left the violence and went to Adelaide last year or the year before. I also know for a fact that every chance he's had Liam has been in Alice Springs drinking it up in these town camps and that didn't augur well for this season even without this latest incident.

I sincerely hope there is not much to this. Liam's involvement in AFL football has had a very positive effect on the community. Lots of boys are taking footy much more seriously and can imagine themselves playing at the highest level. Liam Patrick only took up footy again because of his success, for example.

thanks for the insight. the more we try to "walk a mile" in others shoes, the quicker the gap will be closed.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

What people don't seem to realize is that the aboriginal communities are like having a country within a country; they are completely different ways of life despite white people trying to 'fix' them...

Although a lot of 'retribution' is barbaric, I don't feel that we can judge the issue based on our morals.

Realistically it's immoral that we expect aboriginals to abide by our law.

Either way, I think that I can understand Liam's alleged actions... not completely obviously, but I can acknowledge some validity to them.

However...

Liam should realize that he is of much more value to the indigenous community as an AFL player than as an 'arm of the law'.

 

[KillaKanga]

Nar, he'll probably head back to and stay at the Mackinnons' again. That or hunker down at Aaron Davey's. He's done both before.

The media will be awful, but at the same time he's useless to interview. Ever watched an interview with LJ? Two years ago he could barely speak a word of English, and even now it's one-word answers. The only news value is in getting him on camera, and even that will be avoided - rear entrances, darkened windows, media kept away from training involving Liam. They might chuck a Storm or Victory shirt on him and get him to do his rehab with them inside AAMI Park rather than around Gosch's, since all the footy media will be lurking there.

We had a year of Tom Scully staying out of the public eye despite being the most questioned man in football. The only people who are ruthlessly pursued with media success have been those without a support network around them - Fevola, Nixon, Ablett Snr at times. Even Ben Cousins didn't really get photographed apart from the Such Is Life pictures. The support network will close down all the media trying to get to him, issue statements on his behalf and that will be it until it blows over.

Maybe he'll stay at Carey's????

 

[00Stinger]

No, like it or not aboriginals live under the same laws we all do, if they get the benefits they get the punishments. You cant go cutting people up with machete.

Couldn't agree more

 

[UpTheGuts]

I can't see the Melbourne official in his MFC polo changing much, but good that they are there to support their player.

Terrible set of events

 

[donbooger]

What people don't seem to realize is that the aboriginal communities are like having a country within a country; they are completely different ways of life despite white people trying to 'fix' them...

Although a lot of 'retribution' is barbaric, I don't feel that we can judge the issue based on our morals.

Realistically it's immoral that we expect aboriginals to abide by our law.

Either way, I think that I can understand Liam's alleged actions... not completely obviously, but I can acknowledge some validity to them.

However...

Liam should realize that he is of much more value to the indigenous community as an AFL player than as an 'arm of the law'.

A line has to be drawn on how much latitude you allow different cultures under a countries power and care. We dont yet know what the attack was about it could be as simple as a cheating spouse, there are reasons that the law intervenes.

 

[ApplecrossWC]

I read somewhere earlier in the thread that he could barely speak English a couple of years ago. Is this correct?

 

[Ando727]

I read somewhere earlier in the thread that he could barely speak English a couple of years ago. Is this correct?

It's true.

 

[WALL-e]

Being officially charged brings it up a notch unfortunately, though presumption of innocence will remain until proven otherwise. None the less, I'd be surprised to see him on the field this year innocent or not, too big of a mental cloud either way and the Melbourne media will rip him apart.

There's been some very good posts among the trolling (funny and not), both sides or the 'arguement' have presented good cases and raised good points.

While I respect and understand the differences in culture, and realise just how separated some communities can be from 'western law', Jurrah has a lot less separation about him. He's been heavily involved in he modern Australian community, law and all that comes with it for some time now and as a smart kid (being an elder of his community), he would understand the ramifications this would have. Secondly, cultural differences or not, I don't subscribe to an eye for an eye, especially when you're talking about knifing someone. These situations can escalate quickly, but there is always an option. I don't believe cultural differences can apply in bludgeoning (whether he did it or someone else) someone near death.

I really hpe he's innocent as not only will we miss his football, but this would do damage to the community, future prospects and will envoke an amazing amount of racist connetations in the future.

Also hope the victim will survive.

Not good news for anyone.

 

[The Fact]

IMO if jurrah Is guilty he needs to be delisted by the dees no matter who u are or what laws u may follow, this is a very serious crime and it can't just br blown off with "o that's just the way they have been dealin with thing" that's doesn't make it ok. The dees should still support him IMO but this is not the conduct of an afl player and that's the bottom line.

 

[Piss Poor]

Melbourne bad culture.

 

[Butts_JZZ30]

I love watching Jurrah would be a shame to lose him if he is convincted, but if he did it...I hope he receives the full punishment.

I couldn't really give a stuff about aboriginal tribal laws, Australia is a nation, we have our own laws and as far as I'm concerned you cant go around settling family feuds and tribal rivalries.

It doesn't even make sense...we will reject the colonial rules and legal system, we reject the white man ways but we will use a metal, manufactured crafted weapon to carry out our punishment?

Right.......

At least use a spear or something

 

[Crows4Eva]

What people don't seem to realize is that the aboriginal communities are like having a country within a country; they are completely different ways of life despite white people trying to 'fix' them...

Although a lot of 'retribution' is barbaric, I don't feel that we can judge the issue based on our morals.

Realistically it's immoral that we expect aboriginals to abide by our law.

Either way, I think that I can understand Liam's alleged actions... not completely obviously, but I can acknowledge some validity to them.

However...

Liam should realize that he is of much more value to the indigenous community as an AFL player than as an 'arm of the law'.

If you live in any country on this planet, you have to abide by that countries laws. More often than not, authorities give certain latitude for cultral differences and beliefs, and in general will leave communities to themselves, as long as they stay within the law.

Saying that aboriginal people souldn't have to be bound by our laws, when at the same time they are given the same rights as the rest of us under our government is stupid and the reason why there will never be true equality.

 

[Martyn_30_]

Yes it is savage. However, I feel that their land is their land these are the people that have survived the invasion. I think they should decided what is savage or not in their land. If you give them time they will move away from those sorts of punishments. I also feel that they should not get away with doing that away from their community. Just like ignorance should be no excuse for a white man or woman out in their community. We should be punished in their law if we break it.

The invasion as you put was people moving from certain parts of the world to Australia exactly what people did as they moved from Africa through Asia and eventually to Australia becoming the first aboriginals. Was it their land when it was sitting there for millions of years uninhabited? The whole of Australia is owned by the people/ government not certain groups and until this attitude is changed which I doubt will happen any time soon the gap will still be there

 

[George Washington]

Although a lot of 'retribution' is barbaric, I don't feel that we can judge the issue based on our morals.

Realistically it's immoral that we expect aboriginals to abide by our law.

Yes we can and no it's not. If you want to live in Australia and enjoy all the benefits that come with it you can't go around chopping people up with machete's to settle personal disputes. That's not on, and those responsible should cop the full force of Australian law.

 

[boat13]

Sad to hear about these events, i can only hope the liam was not directly involved with the violence, time will tell though

hopefully this will not mean the end to the jurrahcane playing footy, he truly could do some wonderfull things

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

A line has to be drawn on how much latitude you allow different cultures under a countries power and care. We dont yet know what the attack was about it could be as simple as a cheating spouse, there are reasons that the law intervenes.

I agree. I'm just speaking in realistic terms.

It's a very delicate situation because you're right, we can't have a group of our citizens (whether they wish to be or not) running amok doing as they please.

However, I also can understand how Aboriginal people may feel aggrieved at being forced to follow our laws.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

If you live in any country on this planet, you have to abide by that countries laws. More often than not, authorities give certain latitude for cultral differences and beliefs, and in general will leave communities to themselves, as long as they stay within the law.

Saying that aboriginal people souldn't have to be bound by our laws, when at the same time they are given the same rights as the rest of us under our government is stupid and the reason why there will never be true equality.

I didn't actually say that they "shouldn't", just that it is "immoral".

Realistically, this wouldn't be our country if we didn't piss on the laws and traditions of it's native people.