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Let's agree to disagree then.
Lillee, McGrath..... Cummins ?
- Thread starter cricketnut14
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Let's agree to disagree then.
Marshall was very very good. I have him probably second to Michael Holding as best West Indies fast bowlers I seen.
Andy Roberts and Marshall I rate about the same. Marshall tended to swing it more. Then Joel Garner and then Ambrose.
I have Marshall ahead of McGrath but probably just behind Wasim Akram. Maybe Marshall about same level as Imran Khan. There no much between Imran and Marshall. I'd pick Imran before McGrath too. For me, the best pace bowlers I rate that I seen go in order of Lillee, Hadlee and Wasim Akram. Holding next and not much difference to Marshall at all. All great bowlers.
philreich
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I like the story of David Boon facing up to Marshall, who simply said to him, "David - are you going to get out now, or will I be forced to come around the wicket and kill you?" 
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Ryan Harris would be in the conversation if his body was even remotely close to durable
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Agree with that.
philreich
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That ball that bowled Cook in Perth (first ball of the second innings I think) was one of the best deliveries I've seen.
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That it was the first ball of ENG's second innings, in the match which ultimately secured The Ashes after over 4 years, just made it even greater.
In context, arguably the best ball bowled since 2000.
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Yep.
The most skilful quick AUS have had since McGrath's retirement.
On that line of conversation, I consider James Pattinson to be one of the great what-ifs of Australian cricket. Early Pattinson could generate prodigious movement (both conventional/reverse) at express pace, and could use cutters as well. That made him almost as dangerous on the subcontinent as it did here. When he was fit for a relatively prolonged period in 2019/20, he was more consistent, but he lost some of that pace that made him so dangerous.
has to be up with greatest ever deliveries, i know that starc one in 17 at perth was insane as well but that hit the crack while harris one missed it.
Outswingers and Inswingers seemingly at will.
Love it.
Love it.
CURVE
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Whispering Death was the scariest bowler I saw growing up, he was a little robotic like McGrath yet about 15-20 kms faster. Like you I rate him just ahead of Marshall and Roberts with Garner, Ambrose, Croft and Walsh not far behind.
Alderman was a nightmare to face in England. I think he twice got over 40 wickets in a series the two times he went there.
Ha ha.
Robotic is one word I never associate with Holding.
Gethelred
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- #39
I just had a look:
Terry Alderman - Test Cricket - Performance Analysis by Country
Alderman, T M - Test Cricket - Summary of performances in each country
www.howstat.com
Glenn McGrath - Test Cricket - Performance Analysis by Country
McGrath, G D - Test Cricket - Summary of performances in each country
www.howstat.com
That is both Alderman's and McGrath's stats by country; location rather than opposition. Both average - ironically enough - 19.34 in England and Wales, but McGrath has a strike rate of 39.47 compare to Alderman's 42.96.
Suffice to say, both were brutal in England, but even then McGrath was more likely to get you out.
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Yeah, some of McGrath best bowling was in England.
He loved their pitches.
He loved their pitches.
Gethelred
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And 42 and 41 wickets are absolutely ****ing amazing, 1981 and 1989 respectively. But McGrath got 36 at 19.47 in 1997, 32 at 16.94 in 2001n and 19 at 23.16 in 2005.
There's also the fact that there's only 10 wickets in each innings available to bowlers, and in the same series McGrath played Warne took 24 at 24.04, 31 at 18.71, and 40 at 19.93. As far as I know, there was no equivalent to Warne in the Australian side at the time for Alderman to compete with.
McGrath would be inside my first 2 players picked for an all time XI, with the first being Bradman.
There's also the fact that there's only 10 wickets in each innings available to bowlers, and in the same series McGrath played Warne took 24 at 24.04, 31 at 18.71, and 40 at 19.93. As far as I know, there was no equivalent to Warne in the Australian side at the time for Alderman to compete with.
McGrath would be inside my first 2 players picked for an all time XI, with the first being Bradman.
sherb
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I saw Lillee's entire Test career, from 70-71 to 83-84.
For mine, the greatest fast bowler this country has produced.
For mine, the greatest fast bowler this country has produced.
sherb
Hall of Famer
Don't forget 31 wickets in 1972 as well.
This was just before his back injury, he was a tearaway - fast and ferocious. Many wouldn't know just how quick and intimidating he was at this time.
Never saw the young raw tearaway version of Lillee so wonder how quick he was in comparison to Thommo at their peak.
I've always thought the young version of Lillee was probably as quick as Brett Lee at top pace but I assume Thommoa was another 10km/h quicker than anyone at their top pace. Wish I'd had seen the quickest of both, although I am certain the older version of Lillee I saw was a more skilled version than the young raw one. I wonder if Lillee never got injured if that greatness fully would have been unpacked to see all those different style of swing, seam and cutters he could do when I saw him.
- Jan 13, 2015
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i'm talking all round package.
aldermans 2 awesome series in england yielded 12 tests 83 wickets @ 19
the rest of his career yielded another 29 tests 87 wickets @ 34
he's definitely a tier or 2 below lillee & mcgrath.
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Asked this of a friend of mine who has been obsessed since his youth.
He had Marshall out in front of everyone, then Wasim, Steyn, Holding, Lillee, McGrath, Imran. I'm probably missing one or two there that he mentioned. He was clear on Marshall being out in front.
Edit: Alan Donald was in there somewhere.
I agree with him on Steyn too. His strike rate during an era of flat pitches was phenomenal.
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- Jan 13, 2015
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lillee 70 tests / 355 @ 24
cummins 36 tests / 174 @ 21
cummins is now half way to lillee's career and number's are strikingly similar and well on track to match him providing he can play another 40 odd tests.
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- #49
Ambrose and Walsh were fun too
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For me, Marshall was clearly the best of the Windians. Not the fastest (Holding), nor the meanest (Roberts, Croft) but the best.
He was an exceptionally adaptable bowler too; unlike most quicks he was also deadly on slower pitches. His record on the sub-continent is brilliant.
He was an exceptionally adaptable bowler too; unlike most quicks he was also deadly on slower pitches. His record on the sub-continent is brilliant.
