Lions are "the League's Strategic Disaster"

[patfullfankezz]

Winning fixes everything. If we didn't have the promising squad then I would be worried. As long as we are learning from our mistakes, don't make them again and start winning games we will be fine.
The last 8 odd years have felt like the perfect storm scenario. Expansion teams taking quality players from our squad, recruitment disasters (we all know that is an understatement), bottom 6 finishes not resulting in the deserving top 5 draft picks, horrible off field management, valuable and scarce top draft picks requesting transfers, greenhorn coach, under resourced facilities and staff and a partridge in a fricken pear tree... I am sure I have missed something.

I think us being "the leagues strategic disaster" is a bit extreme.

What happens then when the inevitable happens and we stop winning again? Every team has to go through cycles of winning and losing, and we can't continue to bleed during the lean years - because who knows how long they will be?

Whatever members we manage to snaffle in our next winning cycle need to be made to want to stay during the lean years. Because right now when we're losing everyone is jumping ship.

 

[chopperduck]

We will always struggle to keep members when we arent playing finals. Its important though wethat we prepare for the lean years by using money from the good years well. We would be in a much better position if we didnt lose our dollars from the threepeat. That money needes to be invested into things like facilities and social club, instead we lost it, fell to the bottom in facilities and footy dept spend and had to borrow money for the social club. The flow on affect is that things like the social club bring in income, and if we dont ignore the footy department, we will probably remain more competitive on field, meaning more members and sponsors.

We dont need 3 flags to get some good membership numbers, after we hit finals last time we had a good spike. Just being able to keep in the mix and playing finals more often will be of significant help.

 

[GumbyRules]

Not according to this

You are right, they have only been digging test bores in the Brisbane river for final placement. Project commences 2015.

 

[MSB ROYS]

The worry is that the Reds will be strong again this year and I think that we have lost people to the Reds and some to the Suns. Just have to start winning, especially big games!

 

[Judge]

The worry is that the Reds will be strong again this year and I think that we have lost people to the Reds and some to the Suns. Just have to start winning, especially big games!

MSB, I wouldn't be too worried about losing fans/members to the Reds regardless of how the Reds go this year.

I'm a Reds member as well as a Lions member (with Lions games always taking precedence) and in my experience you don't see much cross-pollination between the followers of these codes. With Broncos supporters on the other hand, if the Broncos are poor again and we start to win a few games you could easily see a few thousand extra bandwagoners at the Gabba - winning beats the hell out of losing for entertainment

I used to run into a lot of rugby people in the Gabba Trust area back in the premiership era whom I wouldn't have seen there for the last 10 years. Mind you, I didn't see many of these guys at Suncorp either before the Reds started to turn the corner in 2010. The Reds members area was a wasteland in those days, which just shows how imperative (not just important) winning games is to our bottom line.

 

[western royboy]

There is/was definately a different culture from the traditional footy states vs the northern states in terms of memberships and turning up religously each week. I used to theorise it was due to the leagues club phenomena of the northern states which meant the clubs were less reliant on members paying for attendance membershios because the one armed bandits used to ensure financial prosperity, thus there was less of a requirement to push hard for attendance. During my one year of religous attendance as a Fitzroy supporter in the early 90's, it definately became a ritual. Seeing and sitting with the same fans each week - the only common thread between us being the support of our club was certainly a very enjoyable time (despite the onfield results).

When I moved to Sydney in the middle 90's pre and post the execution of the Roys, I became dismayed at the "bandwagon" jumping Sydney folk. Early in the year I could pay my money and sit wherever I wanted - by round 16 and the Plugger lead Swans on top of the ladder and Gary Ablett Snr coming to town I had to book seats three weeks in advance and queue for 90 minutes to get in!

So I guess that type of experience is where a large portion of the Brisbane population sit as well, although never to the extent of sin city but there are major similarities in terms of codes and access to the ground that act as a deterrents as well.

 

[morsie]

according to the Oz this morning, our financial situation is the worst by quite a few million.Bit depressing really

 

[Chezzalenko Reborn]

What happens then when the inevitable happens and we stop winning again? Every team has to go through cycles of winning and losing, and we can't continue to bleed during the lean years - because who knows how long they will be?

Whatever members we manage to snaffle in our next winning cycle need to be made to want to stay during the lean years. Because right now when we're losing everyone is jumping ship.

Problem I find is its going to be tough for the good teams to fall back now. Look at the Swans, they have only missed finals once since I think 2003, have nabbed 2 flags and have rejuvenated through good list management (assisted through COLA?). My biggest fear iw that free agency is cementing the big clubs as top 8, leaving the smaller clubs next to no chance to retain competitive lists

As much as I want their slides to come, teams like the Hawks will be able rejuvinate successfully through free agency. Its hard to see any professional footballern turning down an opportunity to go a strong performing club when they go shopping for replacements.

That said, here is hoping Collingwood continues to slide. Eddie will probarbly blame everyone else, but it will be nice to see them outside of finals

Sent from my GT-N8010 using Tapatalk

 

[Roys]

My understanding of the situation is this - post 1997 - AFL goes in heavy helps negotiate Lethal as coach and sponsorship CUB & Coke from memory. 2001-2003 Triple premiership Era - rivers of cash - strong balance sheet - good corporate support - AFL pats itself on the back "Our work here is done". Bowers appointed CEO at end of 2001, immediately gets AFL offside by attempting to sell pourage rights at Gabba to Schweppes over AFL corporate partner Coke (and our one time saviour) Immediate post 3peat era - Corporate support drops off significantly - initially corporate boxes, then extends further through all levels. AFL doesn't see warning signs - neither does club. 2007 GFC - Investment made from golden era turn to dust, on field and off field things turn to shit - AFL announces entry of Suns. 2010 - Rock bottom - the Fevolution and Paddlepop are introduced in an attempt to turn the tide, but like the floods that would engulf the city early the next year, rather than turn the tide it merely provided more rubbish to clean up later on.
2013 AFL finally realises they have a serious problem - Internal Board infighting, the threat of an EGM - AFL intereference - "negotiated settlements".

It's hard to disagree with Jake Niall's assessment - certainly those journo's close to Vlad (of which Jake is not one) up until very recently would not hear anything to the contrary that all responsibility lay at the foot of the administration. Certainly the club must take a large part of the blame, but the AFL continues to underestimate what a tough environment the club operates in. As a guide if you watch Fox Sports News there is very little coverage givejn to the Lions compared to the Broncos or the Reds. Growing up in Brisbane and playing aussie rules doesn't mean you barrack for the Lions, but in Perth its predominantly the West Coast and to a lesser extent Freo.

With the suns down the road all the afl have done is splinter the support for the club. They will never admit it but internally they know they have. Propping us up they must do, but they didn't factor it in hving to do so in anyway shape or form.

Can I add ... serious neglect of the supporter base in Victoria also lack of engagement with local football in Brisbane and surrounds !!!!!

 

[Balony_pony16]

Money conquers all. We need some big corporate sponsors on board, bringing with them the big dollars.

The main reason there isn't an AFL side in Tassie is that there is simply not enough corporate support there [I could go on to my usual rant about the Greens at this point but I will resist]. This is not the case in Qld.

For heavens sake, the two States doing best by far are WA and Queensland. Sponsorship should be far easier here as a consequence, what with $ billions being invested right now by multinationals.

Our game offers national coverage with excellent media support [Brisbane excepted] in every capital city. This is our key selling point when compared to alternative codes.

We will never be able to compete with Collingwood, Essendon, Hawthorn etc in basic membership numbers, and while there might be some form of equalisation put in place, while Eddie's arse points to the ground we will never get anything like a fair share of the total revenue cake to offset the difference. Why would the major power players give us a fair leg up? It's just not in their interests.

Lastly, as is recognised here, we need to sort out the Gabba rental rip-off. How is that the Lions provide most of the moola to keep the place running while at the same time we are told what sort of surface we will play on.

Lions will always struggle for corporate support in Brisbane despite the huge quantities of corporate companies. Brisbane is a Rugby league city and yet it can only support 1 Rugby league team which subsequently appeals much greater to corporate companies! The Lions will never be a big corporate success in Brisbane... IMO

 

[POBT]

The Lions will never be a big corporate success in Brisbane... IMO

The thing is, we were. Every corporate box was sold for almost every game. We had high profile sponsors fighting to get on board. But at the time we were seen a successful team, a well-run club, a wholesome but winning brand and had enormous national exposure (compared to now anyway).

 

[western royboy]

The thing is, we were. Every corporate box was sold for almost every game. We had high profile sponsors fighting to get on board. But at the time we were seen a successful team, a well-run club, a wholesome but winning brand and had enormous national exposure (compared to now anyway).

And since that time the sporting landscape in SEQ has added, The Roar, The Titans, The Heat, The Suns and for a period GCU. Call me an idiot but it's not too hard to see the problem here is it?

 

[POBT]

And since that time the sporting landscape in SEQ has added, The Roar, The Titans, The Heat, The Suns and for a period GCU. Call me an idiot but it's not too hard to see the problem here is it?

I personally think there is still room for us to make our mark in the corporate setting. Our biggest trump card is the national exposure that our code brings, particularly in markets away from Qld and NSW. That's something the Reds and Broncos can't offer. On top of that, the AFL is easily the most proactive and well organised code in terms of engagement with kids.

If we can somehow get ourselves sorted out across a range of areas, then I think the opportunities will flow. But you are right - the market is more crowded than before and, as I said earlier in this thread, potential sponsors are a lot more demanding/choosy than they have ever been.

 

[Balony_pony16]

The thing is, we were. Every corporate box was sold for almost every game. We had high profile sponsors fighting to get on board. But at the time we were seen a successful team, a well-run club, a wholesome but winning brand and had enormous national exposure (compared to now anyway).

More clubs are around (roar, suns etc... now), but I see your point. I do see some improvement, but I disagree with a previous post that because QLD has more corporate companies then Tassie it means we can be successful... In the past it was certainly easier winning 3x prems and a 4th GF, whilst much less sporting competition. Sure we can make in-roads but I don't see us being a corporate success much beyond breaking even on the books

 

[Balony_pony16]

I personally think there is still room for us to make our mark in the corporate setting. Our biggest trump card is the national exposure that our code brings, particularly in markets away from Qld and NSW. That's something the Reds and Broncos can't offer. On top of that, the AFL is easily the most proactive and well organised code in terms of engagement with kids.

If we can somehow get ourselves sorted out across a range of areas, then I think the opportunities will flow. But you are right - the market is more crowded than before and, as I said earlier in this thread, potential sponsors are a lot more demanding/choosy than they have ever been.

A bit over-rated in terms of the Lions. The broncos get exposure in NZ, QLD, NSW, Vic, and to a lessor extend Australia wide with QLD players playing in State of Origin. So the impact the Lions exposure in SA and WA is near non-existant, with near no media coverage apart from brown on the footy show

 

[Haso]

A bit over-rated in terms of the Lions. The broncos get exposure in NZ, QLD, NSW, Vic, and to a lessor extend Australia wide with QLD players playing in State of Origin. So the impact the Lions exposure in SA and WA is near non-existant, with near no media coverage apart from brown on the footy show

I think he means when the Lions play those teams in SA, WA, NSW and Vic. Club sponsorship = exposure in those locations. But the Broncos only play on the East coast, and don't get down to Vic nearly as many times as the Lions do.

 

[James North]

Is this the place where we talk about the Lions being a strategic disaster?

Oh .. the LEAGUE's strategic disaster. Cya.

 

[edgar britts]

More clubs are around (roar, suns etc... now), but I see your point. I do see some improvement, but I disagree with a previous post that because QLD has more corporate companies then Tassie it means we can be successful... In the past it was certainly easier winning 3x prems and a 4th GF, whilst much less sporting competition. Sure we can make in-roads but I don't see us being a corporate success much beyond breaking even on the books

Hence why we struggle to keep players , they all come from strong football states and realize once they get to Brisbane they have no coverage , very small supporter base , no money, no training base , and very little chance of making money outside of footy. THE AFL has a lot to answer to I feel GWS,GCS, should never have entered the comp while the lions still have not got a home base to operate from , if you where a player today the one club you would not want go too would be us. We need more than money I feel.

 

[Dylan12]

THE AFL has a lot to answer to I feel GWS,GCS, should never have entered the comp while the lions still have not got a home base to operate from.

But you are forgetting that Andy D has a legacy to forge here?

 

[POBT]

I personally think the decision to add two new teams was the right one. To me, Western Sydney is effectively a metropolis on its own. A major sporting code can't afford not to be represented.

I also think a 2nd Qld side is the right move although the timing is certainly questionable.

To me, the issue is not the expansion but that they failed to see the consequences for the Lions. So much support for the Suns either came at the expense of or cannibalised an advantage that the Lions had. It took away strengths and magnified weaknesses. Yet, they (the AFL) sat on their hands while a once stable club imploded. For us, expansion was just another kick in the guts, among many kicks (some which were self-inflicted, if you can somehow kick yourself in the guts). But a bit more forethought from the AFL could have helped mitigate the effects of expansion on us, whilst still allowing them to get to 18 teams and reap the benefits that followed.

I mean, Sydney must look at the timing of the expansion and give a great sigh of relief that it came at a time when they had their shit sorted. They obviously are a well run organisation (and we haven't been) but the introduction of GWS came at a time when they were a consistent top 4 side. That had to have helped.

 

[chopperduck]

I personally think the decision to add two new teams was the right one. To me, Western Sydney is effectively a metropolis on its own. A major sporting code can't afford not to be represented.

I also think a 2nd Qld side is the right move although the timing is certainly questionable.

To me, the issue is not the expansion but that they failed to see the consequences for the Lions. So much support for the Suns either came at the expense of or cannibalised an advantage that the Lions had. It took away strengths and magnified weaknesses. Yet, they (the AFL) sat on their hands while a once stable club imploded. For us, expansion was just another kick in the guts, among many kicks (some which were self-inflicted, if you can somehow kick yourself in the guts). But a bit more forethought from the AFL could have helped mitigate the effects of expansion on us, whilst still allowing them to get to 18 teams and reap the benefits that followed.

I mean, Sydney must look at the timing of the expansion and give a great sigh of relief that it came at a time when they had their shit sorted. They obviously are a well run organisation (and we haven't been) but the introduction of GWS came at a time when they were a consistent top 4 side. That had to have helped.

Agree with POBT, 2nd teams in NSW and QLD was the correct move, but I think they took their eye off the lions. They have now stepped in and given us 1.2mil or whatever but really, we should have got this the same time the Suns entered to make sure any impact would be kept to a minimum. As much as it sucks, being a frontier club means we need the AFL to stay involved in our club until we are at a point that we can stand on our own. I believe the springwood social club and springfield admin base are steps to allow this to happen, and thats why the afl are so happy for them to happen. Suns have a massive leg up having their own stadium and the extra revenue that comes with it. The AFL needed to identify that we werent in a good position as a club for a rival to enter the competition. We were ransacked with big losses in players and staff, along with losing our grip on top local talent. I think the staff we lost had a big impact, more so than the players we lost.

 

[Crawb]

I'm cool with the two new teams and where they are located, but fact of the matter is the Lions were not receiving enough support from the AFL before the expansion, and we certainly haven't seen the required amount of support in the last three years. Hopefully that we change. We have it much harder than most other clubs, the AFL seem to have only just realised that. But knowing them they'll probably just be more content to play with their new toy and giving them help they don't need. Only 1 finals series in 9 years too

 

[western royboy]

I'm cool with the two new teams and where they are located, but fact of the matter is the Lions were not receiving enough support from the AFL before the expansion, and we certainly haven't seen the required amount of support in the last three years. Hopefully that we change. We have it much harder than most other clubs, the AFL seem to have only just realised that. But knowing them they'll probably just be more content to play with their new toy and giving them help they don't need. Only 1 finals series in 9 years too

The problem - as 17 other AFL teams see it and to a lesser extent the AFL is that the last time they stepped in, we gorged ourselves and won three flags in a row and didn't thank them enough for their assistance. Eddie claimed excess and so we lost our COLA, that coincided with us being at the end of the cycle, a shitload of back ended contracts, some poor management and odinaryr recruiting / drafting. Instead of being "the" place to be, we have been the last place to be.

If, the AFL medicated us like we need to be, there would be that much bleating from Eddie and Co. it would send you deaf. Finals once in 9 years is a small price to pay supporters of the Dogs, Saints, Demons etc would say as most have never seen a premiership in their lifetime, let alone three in a row.

That doesn't mean we don't need (we bloody well do) but getting acceptance will be nigh on impossible I would have thought.

 

[Crawb]

The problem - as 17 other AFL teams see it and to a lesser extent the AFL is that the last time they stepped in, we gorged ourselves and won three flags in a row and didn't thank them enough for their assistance. Eddie claimed excess and so we lost our COLA, that coincided with us being at the end of the cycle, a shitload of back ended contracts, some poor management and odinaryr recruiting / drafting. Instead of being "the" place to be, we have been the last place to be.

If, the AFL medicated us like we need to be, there would be that much bleating from Eddie and Co. it would send you deaf. Finals once in 9 years is a small price to pay supporters of the Dogs, Saints, Demons etc would say as most have never seen a premiership in their lifetime, let alone three in a row.

That doesn't mean we don't need (we bloody well do) but getting acceptance will be nigh on impossible I would have thought.

Saints finished Top 6 every year for like a decade (apart from two years where they finished 9th). And the Bulldogs made 3 preliminary finals in a row (not to mention the 97/98 GFs for both). They've both had as much chances as glory (if not more) as we have since our the Brisbane Lions inception. But I'll concede on the Demons.

 

[western royboy]

Saints finished Top 6 every year for like a decade (apart from two years where they finished 9th). And the Bulldogs made 3 preliminary finals in a row (not to mention the 97/98 GFs for both). They've both had as much chances as glory (if not more) as we have since our the Brisbane Lions inception. But I'll concede on the Demons.

Would you be content to have played in four Grand Finals and lost them all? To quote a famous Abba tune "The Winner Takes it All" - the loser hides in shame. No comparison I'm afraid.