List Mgmt. List Management Discussion for 2021

[hfc70]

To a contender, he’d go.

I reckon Suns will be a contender next year

 

[KermitJagger]

Agree, but unfortunately those decisions may now prove to be the cautionary tales for any team looking at Mitchell.

Eh, you're talking like history is devoid of these cautionary tales and that Cameron is the first to ever backfire. Clubs will still go all in on a piece that they believe will help em win flags if they're available.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Eh, you're talking like history is devoid of these cautionary tales and that Cameron is the first to ever backfire. Clubs will still go all in on a piece that they believe will help em win flags if they're available.

Case in point - the insane price paid by the Eagles to get Tim Kelly that allowed the insane price paid for Cameron. Both teams funnily enough have regressed since both acquisitions.

 

[KermitJagger]

Case in point - the insane price paid by the Eagles to get Tim Kelly that allowed the insane price paid for Cameron. Both teams funnily enough have regressed since both acquisitions.

Funny how that works out a lot of the time, teams seem to improve after shedding a big name player as much as they improve after picking one up.

Dangerfield left Adelaide and their midfield started working better, made a grand final. Bulldogs cleared Griffen who was their #1 guy at the time and won a flag. We lost Buddy and won the next two flags more comfortably than we ever did with him in the team.

To me, continuity will always be the most important thing in the AFL. It's not like the NBA where 1 acquisition is changing 20% of your starting lineup, and you can rise and fall based on their performances alone - 1 acquisition in the AFL can never have that same positive effect, but it can have a net negative effect on the other 17 players on the field.

 

[arupist]

Not too many of these big trades have worked out all that well. Boyd won a flag for the Dogs, but no-one else has come close to making a difference. Bud got Swans close. One could argue a case for Lynch, but I think Tiges would have won without him.
As for the rest, pretty ordinary result for the buyers. You would have to question the need to chase these big names at high prices.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Titch is not leaving. Sam Edmund is the worst journo in terms of what he says, makes Caro look good. Has missed 3-4 times already this off-season. Said Chol was as good as gone to Essendon, Stephens aswell. Titch is the other, like fml.

 

[Holy Rioli]

Titch is not leaving. Sam Edmund is the worst journo in terms of what he says, makes Caro look good. Has missed 3-4 times already this off-season. Said Chol was as good as gone to Essendon, Stephens aswell. Titch is the other, like fml.

From what I've heard he's keen to get a better contract now the front loading of his contact is done. Problem is finding a club that's willing to part with the draft capital required to get a deal done. I think he stays, I think he'd prefer not to though.

 

[Steven Tyler]

From what I've heard he's keen to get a better contract now the front loading of his contact is done. Problem is finding a club that's willing to part with the draft capital required to get a deal done. I think he stays, I think he'd prefer not to though.

So he’s money hungry?

 

[Ned Ryerson]

So he’s money hungry?

Looking to get paid what he's worth while he can =/= money hungry. After this contract his best earning days will be behind him, and his leaner years on a front-ended contract would have likely been watered down even further with the covid issues - don't blame the bloke for trying to salvage some coin.

 

[Stratton24]

Looking to get paid what he's worth while he can =/= money hungry. After this contract his best earning days will be behind him, and his leaner years on a front-ended contract would have likely been watered down even further with the covid issues - don't blame the bloke for trying to salvage some coin.

A front ended contract in 2019 means less of a pay cut in 2020/2021

 

[Ned Ryerson]

A front ended contract in 2019 means less of a pay cut in 2020/2021

Yes, but would he still have had a reduction on an already reduced salary? If so, I don't blame the guy if he is trying to maximise value where he can. We all want players to be loyal foot soldiers who aren't in it for the money, but that's a far easier sell when you're contending for a flag. If Carlton were approaching his management with say a 3-4 year deal on significant coin, nobody could blame the guy for contemplating the switch.

 

[rei154]

Really don't see the issue with a player looking to get a trade/deal done to get more money. A lucrative AFL career can set you up financially for life.
If Tom's looking around to see if he can get more money because the lean years on his contract with us are upon him I'm ok with that, because we hold the power.

 

[cryptor]

Looking to get paid what he's worth while he can =/= money hungry. After this contract his best earning days will be behind him, and his leaner years on a front-ended contract would have likely been watered down even further with the covid issues - don't blame the bloke for trying to salvage some coin.

I think he's been very fairly compensated. It's not black and white though. He's won a Brownlow but missed a year with a broken leg, plus an additional year working back from it. Breaking his leg is hardly his fault but the fact is that both he and the club take on risks with a bigger deal like his. Maybe he performs better than expected and could have got more. Maybe he under performs or gets unlucky with injury and its the club that loses out a bit.

Whatever the case, he agreed to his current terms. If the only or primary reason he's potentially looking to leave now is because the lucrative years of his deal are over and he's looking to make more money then yes, he's money hungry. I don't necessarily blame him though as the goal posts have shifted somewhat with the direction of the list and the coaching changes.

Personally, if we have heaps of cap space and he's part of Sam's vision for the future then I would give him a bit of a raise. Give him a boost and the rest of it can be performance based.

 

[Milkshaker]

Neale and TOM ringing the death knell for front loaded contracts?

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I think he's been very fairly compensated. It's not black and white though. He's won a Brownlow but missed a year with a broken leg, plus an additional year working back from it. Breaking his leg is hardly his fault but the fact is that both he and the club take on risks with a bigger deal like his. Maybe he performs better than expected and could have got more. Maybe he under performs or gets unlucky with injury and its the club that loses out a bit.

Whatever the case, he agreed to his current terms. If the only or primary reason he's potentially looking to leave now is because the lucrative years of his deal are over and he's looking to make more money then yes, he's money hungry. I don't necessarily blame him though as the goal posts have shifted somewhat with the direction of the list and the coaching changes.

Personally, if we have heaps of cap space and he's part of Sam's vision for the future then I would give him a bit of a raise. Give him a boost and the rest of it can be performance based.

I'm not suggesting he's been hard done by. I mean for the vast majority of us it is hard to imagine why you'd quibble when you earn many multiples more than what us regular punters do. That said, their high-earning years may only last so long (unless you're a high performing head coach or media personality you won't ever come close to the playing career money) so I am somewhat understanding of why players are at least somewhat motivated by money and don't automatically write off their motives when they are doing something I would happily do to if a rival employer came to me and offered me a fair deal more salary-wise.

 

[Mercy Seat]

If we lose TOM I am worried.

JOM, Shiels (now depth), Worpel, Nash (developing unknown long-term),Wingard (doubts over his durability playing primarily as a mid). Throw some developing kids into this mix with tempered expectations (Newcombe, Bramble). That is as good as it gets for our midfield atm.

Without Mitchell and a long term injury to JOM or Worps then we will soon be asking who is the most promising midfielder in next years draft/free agent/trade period. Start that thread now.

If we lose TOM the club needs to hose down expectations for next year and embrace a rebuild. Our midfield will battle against every side in the league.

All indications are that we are embracing the rebuild.

 

[cryptor]

I'm not suggesting he's been hard done by. I mean for the vast majority of us it is hard to imagine why you'd quibble when you earn many multiples more than what us regular punters do. That said, their high-earning years may only last so long (unless you're a high performing head coach or media personality you won't ever come close to the playing career money) so I am somewhat understanding of why players are at least somewhat motivated by money and don't automatically write off their motives when they are doing something I would happily do to if a rival employer came to me and offered me a fair deal more salary-wise.

He's a smart fella who's been on healthy deals even before he was a regular 22 player at the Swans. He's made plenty of smart investments and got himself some lucrative sponsorships. He could play out the rest of his playing days for free and he would retire very financially well off. But like I said, if we really do have plenty of cap space free I'm not against giving him a raise if it's just a matter of money.

I'd just have more understanding if it was a player like CJ for example. He's technically still on a rookie list wage for next season yet his performance is that of a top 10 player on our list and someone who might have been AA if not for injury. The club will no doubt look after CJ in this regard, but if he was in a situation where he looking at being locked in for the next 2 years at rookie salary while he's playing AA quality football it would be completely understandable for him to go seeking more money.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

He's a smart fella who's been on healthy deals even before he was a regular 22 player at the Swans. He's made plenty of smart investments and got himself some lucrative sponsorships. He could play out the rest of his playing days for free and he would retire very financially well off. But like I said, if we really do have plenty of cap space free I'm not against giving him a raise if it's just a matter of money.

I'd just have more understanding if it was a player like CJ for example. He's technically still on a rookie list wage for next season yet his performance is that of a top 10 player on our list and someone who might have been AA if not for injury. The club will no doubt look after CJ in this regard, but if he was in a situation where he looking at being locked in for the next 2 years at rookie salary while he's playing AA quality football it would be completely understandable for him to go seeking more money.

Agree whole-heartedly with the CJ comparison. I would much rather see the club retaining CJ, Day and similar younger players with the cap space as opposed to appeasing Mitchell if he feels he needs to cash in. Those players are far more integral to our future success so their retention should be high priority.

 

[TylerDurden]

If Tom wants a thumper, then send him to GC for pick 3. Where do I sign??

 

[danielG]

If Tom wants a thumper, then send him to GC for pick 3. Where do I sign??

Quite amazingly GC are not blessed with cap space !!! But I am with you, give me GC's pick three for TMitch and I will pack his bags myself...Sorry Tommy but we need high end picks more than your ineffectual cheapies !

 

[Stratton24]

If Tom wants a thumper, then send him to GC for pick 3. Where do I sign??

You can't "send" a player to a team in the AFL

Imagine if you can if Tassie do get a team!

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Really don't see the issue with a player looking to get a trade/deal done to get more money. A lucrative AFL career can set you up financially for life.
If Tom's looking around to see if he can get more money because the lean years on his contract with us are upon him I'm ok with that, because we hold the power.

Lean years? He agreed to the deal. So what he wants is to have been paid above market value for the seasons his contract is front loaded and then leave to try and get market value again. That's bad karma stuff.

The only benefit to us is that because his contract is at a lower rate the next few seasons it isn't a barrier to trading him for other clubs. If he was part of a player swap we could asking the receiving club to pay part of the players wage that we receive or we have a win with draft capital in a trade.

If he is chasing the dollar then boot him.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

You can't "send" a player to a team in the AFL

Imagine if you can if Tassie do get a team!

Maybe they AFL will be so pissed off at the Tassie team getting up that they'll pull a Brisbane Bears and just let every side send them two players which invariably turned into duds/injured blokes who are past it.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Lean years? He agreed to the deal. So what he wants is to have been paid above market value for the seasons his contract is front loaded and then leave to try and get market value again. That's bad karma stuff.

The only benefit to us is that because his contract is at a lower rate the next few seasons it isn't a barrier to trading him for other clubs. If he was part of a player swap we could asking the receiving club to pay part of the players wage that we receive or we have a win with draft capital in a trade.

If he is chasing the dollar then boot him.

It's worth remembering that this is all entirely speculative and the record/word from both his camp and the club's camp is Tom is more than happy to see out his contract. It's more if an opportunity arises that benefits both club and Tom that he could move on for more money.

Maneuvering to get more money is becoming more and more common in the AFL (as we saw a week ago with Neale, or a month ago with Clarko) and seems to be following American sports in that regard.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. If the club can't get a deal they like for Tom, he can't do much about getting a payrise. I'm sure he's a professional and will be great for the team going forward if he doesn't find a suitable destination. He gets along well with the playing group too.

 

[moginie]

Maybe they AFL will be so pissed off at the Tassie team getting up that they'll pull a Brisbane Bears and just let every side send them two players which invariably turned into duds/injured blokes who are past it.

So we're sending Carlton there?

Sounds good to me.