List Mgmt. List Management Discussion for 2021

[Blackhawk42]

It is funny how worked up some people on here got over that. We are 17th and lost to 18th. Basically all he’s saying is he thinks North have a better list going forward right now. Not a huge stretch (albeit I do think we are slightly better off). Of course some people here keep making favourable comparisons with this current disaster of a list to our threepeat list (who have been reinvented as a bunch on duds who looked talentless until we started winning premierships).

Bottom line is this: the lowest this club has ever finished is 15th. We will finish lower this year. This is our worst ever side

Don't get worked up on the numbers. More teams are in the comp now. Second last is just second last.

Also, too late to trade for both Amon and Narkle? Watching Sparkle cleanly pick up ground balls under pressure and deftly handballing over the top to a team mate made me sad.

 

[Billyc]

Don't get worked up on the numbers. More teams are in the comp now. Second last is just second last.

Also, too late to trade for both Amon and Narkle? Watching Sparkle cleanly pick up ground balls under pressure and deftly handballing over the top to a team mate made me sad.

But that’s the point. More teams mean the talent pool is diluted further and the worse teams are worse than ever. It also means we are behind even more teams than ever before.

 

[dermott]

It is funny how worked up some people on here got over that. We are 17th and lost to 18th. Basically all he’s saying is he thinks North have a better list going forward right now. Not a huge stretch (albeit I do think we are slightly better off). Of course some people here keep making favourable comparisons with this current disaster of a list to our threepeat list (who have been reinvented as a bunch on duds who looked talentless until we started winning premierships).

Bottom line is this: the lowest this club has ever finished is 15th. We will finish lower this year. This is our worst ever side

I assume your comment re lowest finishes excludes the 12 team VFL where finishing last was only 12th.

 

[Billyc]

I assume your comment re lowest finishes excludes the 12 team VFL.

Well yes because there weren’t 18 teams diluting the talent. But I’ll also put my hand up that I’m 36 and never saw those teams! This is worst Hawks list in my life

 

[dermott]

Well yes because there weren’t 18 teams diluting the talent. But I’ll also put my hand up that I’m 36 and never saw those teams! This is worst Hawks list in my life

I am quite a bit older and can assure you there have been worse. However I agree last night’s effort was extremely disappointing.

 

[HairyO]

Big changes coming for this club. 10 players gone at the end of season is a must. Getting manhandled by the Suns is unacceptable I would have thought.
The playing list management strategy needs to extend to the coaching staff as well. The whole club is a shambles on field.

View attachment 1141123

2015 - 2021

How do you bring in 10 replacement players in 1 year ?

 

[HairyO]

Well yes because there weren’t 18 teams diluting the talent. But I’ll also put my hand up that I’m 36 and never saw those teams! This is worst Hawks list in my life

Im 48 and have seen far worse. We have been in similar situations with no talent coming through.

We have some good kids who are going to be blooded over the next 12 weeks. And 3 decent draft picks before trades and FA come in to it.

 

[PhatHQ]

How do you bring in 10 replacement players in 1 year ?

We can easily add 2 via mid season draft, draft 5 and add 3 via trade, DFA and FA.

RFA...

TO

Out of contract and not extend...

Nash
Pepper
Morris
Brooksby
Hartley

Retire...

Burgoyne
Scully - *Bramble
Patton - MSD

Trade... tap on shoulder whoever is needed to get at least another 2 picks inside the top 30 (with an early/mid first rounder a must). **naming names because** and out of contract next season

Mitchell
Gunston
Shiels
Cegs
Cousins
Breust
Lewis
Frost

God forbid but would still do it for the right draft haul....

Sicily - *LTI MSD
O’meara
Wingard

We can literally buy out way to the draft or the FA market.

That’s how I would cull 10 players from the team that got smashed buy the Gold Coast Suns and add top end talent. The guys that played last night become depth and the fringe players turned over.

 

[TallyHawk]

Graeme Wright stitched us up with the Tom Phillips acquisition, potato.


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[Brant]

We can easily add 2 via mid season draft, draft 5 and add 3 via trade, DFA and FA.

Drafting 5 (I'm assuming with our first 5 picks) means we're using Richmond's 4th & something later than that.

8-10 all up, sure but that'll include Rookie Picks.

 

[PhatHQ]

Drafting 5 (I'm assuming with our first 5 picks) means we're using Richmond's 4th & something later than that.

8-10 all up, sure but that'll include Rookie Picks.

I’d offload the late picks and only take players inside the top 30. Bundle whatever together to get additional picks for 2022 as well.

 

[Come back Cyril]

If a team came to us that was very tight in the cap and said we will get you 2 first round picks for Mitchell if you agree to pay 300 of his 850 a year wage for the next 3 years you have to seriously look at it.

I would be over the moon if we could get even one first round pick for Mitchell. Unfortunately I think we now have enough evidence to assume that this is who he is post injury and it isn't the same player as Brownlow Titch. He has lost his explosiveness, and a step of pace. This means he can't get any seperation to get clearances and needs to rush possessions. He is still incredibly smart and can find the ball as well as anyone else in the AFL, but that also describes Tom Rockliff who can't get a game in a competitive team.

I love Titch and rate the 2017-18 Titch in the top 10 mids in the game, but for this version, I would happily take anything better than a late second round pick.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Graeme Wright stitched us up with the Tom Phillips acquisition, potato.


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Cost us nothing. Hasn't been our worst. Just a better player in a stronger side. Won't be the difference or a genuine star.

 

[Davo-27]

Going over our list as it stands in 2021 i tried breaking it up into groupings compairing it to other players in the AFL

Elite: .....

Top Tier: Sicily, Gunston, Day (all 3 are injured)

AFL Standard: McEvoy, Breust(close to list clogger), Wingard, T.Mitchell, Impey, Frost, JOM, Phillips, Hardwick, Worpel, Scrimshaw

VFL Standard: Hartigan, TOB, Howe, Hartley, Morrison, Cousins, Hanrahan, Morris, Maginness, Brooksby, Pepper, Saunders, Greaves(Greaves could be developable also?)

Developable: Lewis, DBG, Jeka, S.Mitchell, Downie, Bramble, CJ, Reeves, Kosi, Moore, Brockman(some not all will make the step up one day, need to invest in this group as much as possible imo)

List Clogger: Burgoyne, Shiels, Ceglar, Nash

We have 14 quality players and a few youngsters fiinding their feet at the AFL level, doesnt help our only 3 top tier players are all injured.

 

[Wingnut19]

How do you bring in 10 replacement players in 1 year ?

Start with 2 picks in MSD

 

[Wingnut19]

I’m leaning towards a full rebuild with Blake Caracalla as coach? I think he’s the best out there. Wouldn’t be too disappointed with Mitchell but it kind of never works out too well with favourite sons taking over. Think the whole place needs a fresh look.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Cost us nothing. Hasn't been our worst. Just a better player in a stronger side. Won't be the difference or a genuine star.

He's an absolute spud and just another player we need to clear, I actually thought he could be a role player but I was wrong he's a dirt pounder.

Billyc I was talking with mates last night about if this is the worst side I've seen, I'm only marginally younger than you and it's a tossup between 04 and this season, 2004 I think we went 4-18 percentage around 70.

 

[Stratton24]

It is funny how worked up some people on here got over that. We are 17th and lost to 18th. Basically all he’s saying is he thinks North have a better list going forward right now. Not a huge stretch (albeit I do think we are slightly better off). Of course some people here keep making favourable comparisons with this current disaster of a list to our threepeat list (who have been reinvented as a bunch on duds who looked talentless until we started winning premierships).

Bottom line is this: the lowest this club has ever finished is 15th. We will finish lower this year. This is our worst ever side

Lol you know we had sides that didn’t win a game when we started. Last is worse than second last.

 

[Billyc]

He's an absolute spud and just another player we need to clear, I actually thought he could be a role player but I was wrong he's a dirt pounder.

Billyc I was talking with mates last night about if this is the worst side I've seen, I'm only marginally younger than you and it's a tossup between 04 and this season, 2004 I think we went 4-18 percentage around 70.

I will be surprised if we win 4 games. Collingwood might be 50/50 at this point (they stink too) but I don’t see any other wins. Our 2 actual wins this year could easily have gone the other way too.

In 2004 we at least had Crawford, Hodge as pick 1 from the super draft and Mitchell as a Rising Star winner. There was greater upside, even before the 2004 draft where we had the benefit of priority picks to accelerate us (and of course nailed those picks). We also had a bad coach which made performance worse. The club is probably in better shape off the field at the moment (though Kennett seems determined to light a match under it) but talent wise I am firmly of the view this is the worst I’ve seen. Late 90s was pretty shite too but this is worse.

Just need to load up on picks over the next 2 drafts and hope to nail them like we did in 01 and 04

 

[Billyc]

Lol you know we had sides that didn’t win a game when we started. Last is worse than second last.

Are you 80? I conceded worst in my life time, which is all I can judge, as above.

 

[Davo-27]

Going over our list as it stands in 2021 i tried breaking it up into groupings compairing it to other players in the AFL

Elite: .....

Top Tier: Sicily, Gunston, Day (all 3 are injured)

AFL Standard: McEvoy, Breust(close to list clogger), Wingard, T.Mitchell, Impey, Frost, JOM, Phillips, Hardwick, Worpel, Scrimshaw

VFL Standard: Hartigan, TOB, Howe, Hartley, Morrison, Cousins, Hanrahan, Morris, Maginness, Brooksby, Pepper, Saunders, Greaves(Greaves could be developable also?)

Developable: Lewis, DBG, Jeka, S.Mitchell, Downie, Bramble, CJ, Reeves, Kosi, Moore, Brockman(some not all will make the step up one day, need to invest in this group as much as possible imo)

List Clogger: Burgoyne, Shiels, Ceglar, Nash

We have 14 quality players and a few youngsters fiinding their feet at the AFL level, doesnt help our only 3 top tier players are all injured.

In addition to this i wanted to add, to challenge for premierships you need approx 30 AFL Standard players and to play a good style ect, we are a long way from that mark atm with 14 and some guys developing.

 

[rei154]

In addition to this i wanted to add, to challenge for premierships you need approx 30 AFL Standard players and to play a good style ect, we are a long way from that mark atm with 14 and some guys developing.

Considering 4/14 are probably going to be off our list for various reasons in the next year or so we're in a really rough spot.
I'm interested: of your VFL standard players do you see them having the ability to develop into afl/top/elite too? Or are they split out from the developable players because they're closer to their ceiling.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

In addition to this i wanted to add, to challenge for premierships you need approx 30 AFL Standard players and to play a good style ect, we are a long way from that mark atm with 14 and some guys developing.

I reckon you're being generous on that also, having Phillips where you do.

 

[Davo-27]

Considering 4/14 are probably going to be off our list for various reasons in the next year or so we're in a really rough spot.
I'm interested: of your VFL standard players do you see them having the ability to develop into afl/top/elite too? Or are they split out from the developable players because they're closer to their ceiling.

I think in that VFL group there could always be an exception to the rule where they step up to the level, but i think most are at their ceiling.

 

[rei154]

I think in that VFL group there could always be an exception to the rule where they step up to the level, but i think most are at their ceiling.

Interesting, I've got five differences to your list as it stands. I'm weirdly excited for this rebuilding process because I think we've got a few uncut gems on our list that will start to shine over the next year or two that'll surprise a few.
I think we're at the point where we've got to stop giving games to a few of our experienced heads purely because they provide structure for those around them- I think we can have the same impact from fewer experienced player tbh.