List Mgmt. List Management Discussion for 2021

[hawkmang]

Some seriously whacky sh*t being thrown around here since yesterday

Everyone deals with loss differently

 

[Delecate Des]

Just wait for the week or two before trade time.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Surely Mitchell will have more of a say around the year's end?

Would expect he would be happier to trade out the older players for picks.

 

[Ceej Mentality]

Surely Mitchell will have more of a say around the year's end?

Would expect he would be happier to trade out the older players for picks.

Confirmed yesterday that Sam would have more of a say on list management.

 

[BurnaHawks]

And who are our internal leaders to support the full rebuild once we get rid of all of our senior players?

And who are our internal leaders to support the full rebuild once we get rid of all of our senior players?

I said do anything to get 2 extra top 10 picks. I didn’t say anything about trading ALL of our senior guys. We have a heap of senior guys on our list.

Ben McEvoy, Liam Shiels, Jack Gunston, Luke Breust, Sam Frost, Jaeger, Jarman Impey, Daniel Howe, Tom Phillips, Blake Hardwick,

Tom Mitchell and Wingard are not on this list. Just these two alone could get us what I suggested.

 

[BurnaHawks]

And who are our internal leaders to support the full rebuild once we get rid of all of our senior players?

Our 2008 premiership list had the following players over 26 years old - Crawford, Bateman, Croad, Dew.

LOL we have a heap more that 4 on our list, even after we trade out Tom Mitchell & Wingard....

 

[BurnaHawks]

Our 2008 premiership list had the following players over 26 years old - Crawford, Bateman, Croad, Dew.

That's it.

Jacobs had retired in March before the season started. We had Guerra and Osborne as 26 year olds.

The emphasis on leadership is not about quantity so much as it is about quality. We will have 17 of the current list 27 or older come 2022. We have plenty of experience. Trading a couple of older/senior guys will not change that.

This is the most sensible and well researched post.

We can afford to lose a couple to fast track our rebuild.

 

[Yardie]

Surely Mitchell will have more of a say around the year's end?

Would expect he would be happier to trade out the older players for picks.

I reckon a whole lotta people are going to be disappointed and burn the place down when it is just business as usual.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Our 2008 premiership list had the following players over 26 years old - Crawford, Bateman, Croad, Dew.

LOL we have a heap more that 4 on our list, even after we trade out Tom Mitchell & Wingard....

Please don’t pretend like that’s the gold standard. We’ve shown time and time again that we value experience and leadership. Clarkson himself has spoken about the value that players post 28 can bring, and that we’re too quick to cast them off.

The idea that we will throw that out the window and gut the list to 2004-2008 levels is just plain dumb.

 

[H00t]

Please don’t pretend like that’s the gold standard. We’ve shown time and time again that we value experience and leadership. Clarkson himself has spoken about the value that players post 28 can bring, and that we’re too quick to cast them off.

The idea that we will throw that out the window and gut the list to 2004-2008 levels is just plain dumb.

There’s many ways Mitchell can go about things and we’ve won a flag with a very young team. If Mitchell wants to gut and go to the draft, let’s back him in.

Experience just for the sake of experience doesn’t work. Plus the club has made a mess of things post 2016. Will be interesting to see what new ideas or directions Mitchell brings to the table.

I think Clarko ended up being to much on the experience side of things. Either way a lot of changes and options possible at the end of the year now

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

There’s many ways Mitchell can go about things and we’ve won a flag with a very young team. If Mitchell wants to gut and go to the draft, let’s back him in.

Experience just for the sake of experience doesn’t work. Plus the club has made a mess of things post 2016. Will be interesting to see what new ideas or directions Mitchell brings to the table.

I think Clarko ended up being to much on the experience side of things. Either way a lot of changes and options possible at the end of the year now

Mitchell himself as a player was someone who was still excelling well into his 30’s.

I doubt he is a big advocate for super young lists, considering that we know that they don’t do much as a general rule.

 

[Ceej Mentality]

We can already thank Mitchell for getting Newcombe on the list - so him having influence over list management this off-season may be a blessing in disguise.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

winning one flag is great, but i don't think it's a coincidence that every dynasty-tier team over the past 20 years have had experienced lists

I suppose you could argue that 2010 Collingwood had a relatively sustained period of success, but they were a bounce away from losing in '10 and a ridiculous REDACTED in '11 from not making the GF at all

 

[theiaofseed]

I mentioned awhile back that just a fresh perspective and a person without close bonds is maybe just what the clubs needs for the extra little push, Mitchell understands what an experience player can add when theyre dedicated to the cause Burgoyne, Hodge and himself are the very testament to that, so I'm not talking about gutting the list I'm thinking playing people like Nash playing in the guts, lightning a faint flame under a player that's on the outer.

I always thought Sam Mitchell story was a resemblance of the Hawthorn way(the hard way) born of limited opportunity that fought and exceed expectation and ability, he knows how hard you need to work to bridge the gap on others and I believe he can inspire present and future players to strive for something greater.

 

[Brishawk]

Why are we comparing our age profile in 2008 to now? We used the likes of Jacobs, smith and vandeberg as experience right up until the end of 2007 when the younger players were ready to take over. Compare this side to 2005-06 for a better comparison.

 

[WWSD]

Any word on when we may hear some news regarding players re-signing? Moore and Morrison deserve new deals. Koschitzke in my opinion deserves a long term contract extension, same with Jiath.

 

[burner1]

Please don’t pretend like that’s the gold standard. We’ve shown time and time again that we value experience and leadership. Clarkson himself has spoken about the value that players post 28 can bring, and that we’re too quick to cast them off.

The idea that we will throw that out the window and gut the list to 2004-2008 levels is just plain dumb.

Clarko is not in charge anymore. And if club believed in his direction he wouldn’t be getting moved on. Given they’ve been talking 5-10 year horizons a more aggressive rebuild could be on table.

 

[offtherails9]

Our 2008 premiership list had the following players over 26 years old - Crawford, Bateman, Croad, Dew.

LOL we have a heap more that 4 on our list, even after we trade out Tom Mitchell & Wingard....

Why would you compare our list to the 2008 team? We weren't building to win a flag at that stage.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Clarko is not in charge anymore. And if club believed in his direction he wouldn’t be getting moved on. Given they’ve been talking 5-10 year horizons a more aggressive rebuild could be on table.

Yeah the club knows they're building from the bottom up and it's a huge positive they know we don't have any quick fixes.

 

[SSSSSS]

Please don’t pretend like that’s the gold standard. We’ve shown time and time again that we value experience and leadership. Clarkson himself has spoken about the value that players post 28 can bring, and that we’re too quick to cast them off.

The idea that we will throw that out the window and gut the list to 2004-2008 levels is just plain dumb.

Looking at the last 20 years only one team has tasted any long-term success with an aggressive culling strategy and that was Hawthorn. It's not like we were cutting champions either, we weeded out players who were not going to benefit the culture of the club long-term. We also were fortunate enough to have some of the best ever draft hauls five years prior to set us up for success.

Hubris to think lightning will strike twice. We have as much chance of ending up being a Melbourne as we are of being a Hawthorn 08.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

we shouldt be aiming to be Hawthorn 2008, or Doggies 2016, or Richmond 17-20

we should be aiming to be Hawthorn, 2023-2030

 

[BurnaHawks]

Why would you compare our list to the 2008 team? We weren't building to win a flag at that stage.

LOL teams are building to win a flag every year mate. The stars aligned for us in 2008. Then things went to shit for us. Then we we’re. You guessed it buddy, building to win more flags.

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

And who are our internal leaders to support the full rebuild once we get rid of all of our senior players?

We have eight guys over 29. Buggar all trade value, those that are fit enough to go around again probably will. So the hysterical hyperbole is probably wasted here.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

even if you disregard the leadership argument going and getting rid of all of our best players would be stupid

one or two might be beneficial

all of them would be dreadful

 

[Ceej Mentality]

even if you disregard the leadership argument going and getting rid of all of our best players would be stupid

one or two might be beneficial

all of them would be dreadful

It's why I hope Gunston can get on the park for a good portion of the rest of this season. Am keen to see how the forward structure looks with him in it also He may have a great late-career flourish with Kosi taking the bigger defenders.