List Management

[Deefence]

I know we can't change anything for the next 12 months however I was just looking over the structure of our list and 2 things stood out:

* We are one quality tall defender short, we have Frawley and Garland however it drops off after than...Rivers doesn't have the size nor the kicking skills, Sellar, Davis and Sheahan are unproven and lastly Tom McDonald has been moved into the forward line even though we have Clark, Watts, Jurrah, Howe as tall or tallish options as well as Cook and Williams developing

* We are lacking midfield quality especially with Scully leaving...Grimes is looking like his playing down back again, Blease and Davey are heading up forward, Morton doesn't seem to be coming on as we would of liked (hopefully i'm wrong)...Obviously Viney helps fill the gap and i'm hoping our compo picks are used on the best available mid's as well in next year's draft after recruiting so many tall's in recent years

Thoughts?

 

[Andy_Mac]

Agreed, i think if we use both compo picks next year we should be looking to add Viney plus 2 x extra mids. Without knowing the likely top 20 i wouldn't mind betting that a few clubs will be chasing talls given the lack of quality last year meaning some of the mids may slip a place or 2.

The tall defender situation is interesting. Garland is not really tall enough to go toe to toe with a Trav Cloke etc and Rivers gets pushed under the ball one on one to easily. I can see Tom McDonald being key here. He's going to big a strong lad and has the flexibility to play key forward or key defender. If Cook can develop over the next few years into that 3rd tall type along side Watts and Clark then i see TMac moving down back full time.

I think Cook has been forgotten and in some way written off. I watched him play a bit as a junior and saw his game against North Ballarat last year and he looked good to me. Wont be a pack splitter, but is a very smart footballer. He will also benefit from not having Fev at Casey, Bate being used (assumable at VFL level also) as a big bodied mid and Fitzpatrick spending more time in the Ruck given Gawn’s injury.

 

[pjfairbairn]

I think Sellars will also surprise, and TMac is certainly one for the future. Don't know about Cook; he surprised everybody by being picked so early, and the couple of times that I saw him play for Casey I didn't see much.

In saying that, he will benefit from no-Fev, and young talls take time - will just have to wait and see.

Midfield quality is certainly the priority going forward

 

[Deefence]

Anyone else feel in hindsight...yes i know that lovely thing call hindsight...that we should of selected the "best available" instead of targeting a tall forward in the 2010 draft? Especially now we have Clark on our list...

 

[Andy_Mac]

I think Sellars will also surprise, and TMac is certainly one for the future. Don't know about Cook; he surprised everybody by being picked so early, and the couple of times that I saw him play for Casey I didn't see much.

In saying that, he will benefit from no-Fev, and young talls take time - will just have to wait and see.

Midfield quality is certainly the priority going forward

I really think Sellar is going to be one of the steals of the draft. He is going to provide good depth if nothing else. And I know there are a few Adelaide fans that were really disappointed he was let go so early. I mean we kept Juice around the place for years and he had half the talent (as a junior at least).

Don’t worry about Cook he was the AA centre half-forward and co-captain of Vic Country for a reason. He will take time as his body is under developed against men, but it will happen. I also disagree that he was taken that early in the draft. We wanted him and it was known that others with first round picks after ours did as well. He was always a top 20 selection. Get down to the VFL or training once the full on match simulation stuff gets under way. Watch his skills and composure in traffic.

I also think people really underestimate how hard it would have been for him to be a target in a Casey forward line that consisted of: Juice, Fev, Matty Bate and at time Fitzpatrick. It was always going to be really tough for him to kick bags of goals, he was usually the 3rd or 4th option…

Although with the benefit of hindsight knowing that Scully walks maybe we could have picked an Atley etal. Although our 2 x compo picks will be in the P12 range in any case. And I’d rather go tall earlier knowing they need more time on a list to develop.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

On Cook;

He was picked AA U18 CHF ahead of players like Darling, Lynch and Day.

He was also 10kg's lighter than any of these lads.

He'll take time; think of Watts without being given games early on.

 

[Enforcer25]

I wouldn't read too much into Tom McDonald training up forward.
I see him as being used as a versatile spare parts man, like Leigh Brown was at Collingwood, and he needs to learn the fonward craft more than anything else.

Even if he's to be used in more than one area of the field, he still needs to train with one of the lines.

 

[dee64]

On Cook;

He was picked AA U18 CHF ahead of players like Darling, Lynch and Day.

He was also 10kg's lighter than any of these lads.

He'll take time; think of Watts without being given games early on.

And herein lies the problem. We already had Watts who has a similar physique but greater skillset. Picking up AA U18 CHF means jackshite when it comes down to holding a KPF role at AFL level. Even with time, I can't see Cook being a KPF.

When Neeld came to the club, he identified holes in our list, and clearly KPF was one of them.

My philosophy on drafting KPFs and ruckmen is that you only use a 1st round pick on them if they are physically only 12 months away from playing regular AFL. Otherwise you trade for an established one.

 

[00Stinger]

=
* We are one quality tall defender short, we have Frawley and Garland however it drops off after than...Rivers doesn't have the size nor the kicking skills, Sellar, Davis and Sheahan are unproven and lastly Tom McDonald has been moved into the forward line even though we have Clark, Watts, Jurrah, Howe as tall or tallish options as well as Cook and Williams developing

As far a KPD go I think Frawley, Garland & Rivers are as good as most teams in the league, so I see no problem there. Throw in Sellar who I think will suprise a few and I think we are fine down back

Anyone else feel in hindsight...yes i know that lovely thing call hindsight...that we should of selected the "best available" instead of targeting a tall forward in the 2010 draft? Especially now we have Clark on our list...

Cook was the AA CHF, so odds are he was the best avaliable.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

And herein lies the problem. We already had Watts who has a similar physique but greater skillset. Picking up AA U18 CHF means jackshite when it comes down to holding a KPF role at AFL level. Even with time, I can't see Cook being a KPF.

When Neeld came to the club, he identified holes in our list, and clearly KPF was one of them.

My philosophy on drafting KPFs and ruckmen is that you only use a 1st round pick on them if they are physically only 12 months away from playing regular AFL. Otherwise you trade for an established one.

And we only had Watts as a key forward prospect.

We didn't have Clark, Williams, Sellar on our list, so we picked the best available tall.

A hole in the list was a game-ready KPF; and that's hardly surprising considering we had Watts and an 80kg project as the only players of true KPF size and style on our list!

Your philosophy on drafting talls is not one that many recruiters would follow; and trading for an established tall is hardly easy.

Why can't you see Cook becoming a KPP?

I can't see any well considered reasons why he can't.

 

[Demons2012]

I was/am happy with Cook, I really rated him at Ballarat and Vic Country, I moved to Qld this year so didn't see any VFL but I thought he was injured for a fair stretch?

Midfield isn't biggest weakness I don't think, I would have thought it would be potent, goalkicking small forwards. Not sure why we didn't rookie list at least one maybe 2 of these given that is where a lot come from.

The other main thing missing from our list is experience and mature bodies things we will have in time.

 

[Rudeurrection]

Patience is what is required with The Cookie Monster. I had no qualms with our selection of him, he is all class, the problem i had with him was that he is too much the same as Jack Watts when we were in desperate need (Clark recruited since) of a POWER forward. He will appreciate developing in the VFL unlike Watts, who, because the number he was picked in the draft, was 'lambs to the slaughter' just to fill some seats on Queens Birthday.

Sellar i think we are hoping becomes our Leigh Brown, sad to say it but he aint no Leigh Brown. Prove me wrong.

We need class on the outside, we have no one who can hit up the forwards lace out (except Davey but he goes to shit the moment an opposition player stands next to him)

Agree with the backline, we are a tall defender short ATM. Really hoping Tom Mac or Troy Davis give us a glimpse this year of the future. Hoping one of them steps up.

Priorities for me:

1)Class outside mid.
2)KPD, depending on weather we see anything out of McDonald or Davis this year.
3)Another aggressive KPF.
4)Developing ruckman (rookie draft pick up)

 

[rhaz]

Sellar has been training with the backline group - making him nothing like "our Leigh Brown". Stef Martin is "our Leigh Brown"

(and Leigh Brown is our Leigh Brown now too!!)

 

[dee64]

And we only had Watts as a key forward prospect.

We didn't have Clark, Williams, Sellar on our list, so we picked the best available tall.

A hole in the list was a game-ready KPF; and that's hardly surprising considering we had Watts and an 80kg project as the only players of true KPF size and style on our list!

Your philosophy on drafting talls is not one that many recruiters would follow; and trading for an established tall is hardly easy.

Why can't you see Cook becoming a KPP?

I can't see any well considered reasons why he can't.

I said KPF not KPP. Cook could become an AFL CHB.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I know of Cook, his strengths are his endurance and general skills (kicking, clean ball handling).

IMO, the modern day KPF needs to be either an exceptional contested mark or strong in a 1-on-1 contest. I don't believe that Cook demonstrated either of these at junior level, so I don't see him acquiring them at AFL level.

Sam Reid has a similar build to Cook, but is an exceptional mark. Same can be said of Kirk Tippett. On the other hand, Nick Riewoldt really struggled this year because of zone defences. Clubs didn't allow him to make space by gut running his opponent into the ground, and he's proven to be average overhead.

Cook reminds me of Jarrad Grant. Good skills, but will struggle to make it as a KPF.

 

[Logger]

I said KPF not KPP. Cook could become an AFL CHB.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I know of Cook, his strengths are his endurance and general skills (kicking, clean ball handling).

IMO, the modern day KPF needs to be either an exceptional contested mark or strong in a 1-on-1 contest. I don't believe that Cook demonstrated either of these at junior level, so I don't see him acquiring them at AFL level.

Sam Reid has a similar build to Cook, but is an exceptional mark. Same can be said of Kirk Tippett. On the other hand, Nick Riewoldt really struggled this year because of zone defences. Clubs didn't allow him to make space by gut running his opponent into the ground, and he's proven to be average overhead.

Cook reminds me of Jarrad Grant. Good skills, but will struggle to make it as a KPF.

How long will the modern game stay as it is now though? Reiwoldt was one of the best CHF of the last 5-6 years, so just because his skillset isn't suited to AFL in 2011, it doesn't mean it won't in 2017 or 2015 or even 2012. I'm happy to let the club develop him for the next few years until he becomes an overnight success at some point when we really need him to.

If he's at the same stage in 2 years that's when I'll start getting antsy.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

I thought Cook was regarded as having a fairly good set of hands; he certainly took some nice marks at Casey?

Either way, I actually agree with Cook as a CHB.

In fact I prefer him there.

 

[old55]

I said KPF not KPP. Cook could become an AFL CHB.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I know of Cook, his strengths are his endurance and general skills (kicking, clean ball handling).

IMO, the modern day KPF needs to be either an exceptional contested mark or strong in a 1-on-1 contest. I don't believe that Cook demonstrated either of these at junior level, so I don't see him acquiring them at AFL level.

Sam Reid has a similar build to Cook, but is an exceptional mark. Same can be said of Kirk Tippett. On the other hand, Nick Riewoldt really struggled this year because of zone defences. Clubs didn't allow him to make space by gut running his opponent into the ground, and he's proven to be average overhead.

Cook reminds me of Jarrad Grant. Good skills, but will struggle to make it as a KPF.

Cook is not quick so he wont easily get separation from defenders - if he makes it as a KPF it'll be because he's a good contested mark and there are signs that he is. He's a good converter so he can maximise his opportunities forward. He can use his endurance to run his opponent up and back and maybe get some separation that way. It wasn't the zone that caused Riewoldt to struggle - he played well against zone in prior years - he just wasn't marking as well as he can.

Cook is not going to make it as a KPB because he lacks pace - forwards will get separation on him too easily.

 

[goDees22]

Think we are in a position to go for best available, as we seem to have most bases covered, although agree we appear a mid or two short, need Sylvia to step up and play as a mid/hff rather than hff/mid this year, and no doubt Viney will help, hopefully the 2 Scully picks are used on mids. Need to find a pacy small forward in the mould of Garlett/Betts from somewhere (possibly Lawrence), hopefully Davey can go back to his old role this year. Blease seems set to take that role too, but in the long term he needs to be on a wing for us, as our midfield isn't exactly quick (Moloney, Mckenzie, Trengove, Gysberts, Jones)

Nothing to worry about with Cook, will end up a player, just needs time to improve physically. I personally see him ending up as a CHB in the Ben Reid mould, good hands, skills and smarts

 

[DeeWong6996]

I think we are well set TBH.

We have plenty of players in every position now and it is just a matter before they develop. We do lack "superstars" but I believe that many players on our list can step up.