Lodden Valley Football League

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KevinSheedyismad said:
No doubt country footy is struggling. Problem is that alot of these country towns / areas within our league are also struggling. Have a look at the league. Pyramid, Miti, Calivil, Inglewood, Bridgewater, Newbridge, Serp all have populations that are reducing not growing. They just don't have the populations to provide the numbers required. The Bendigo based clubs are in competition with alot of other clubs and find it difficult to attract players.

So what do they do to attract players? Offer money. So the league starts to be made up of the have's and the have not's. I am aware that Calivil buck this trend. They have been hugely successful whilst not paying alot of money however they have been lucky in a way that they just seemed to have a lot of locals over the past years who don't get paid much and have been able to top up with class players. However these local are getting older and there is not necessarily a new batch coming through.

The vast majority of top sides in the LVFL will have less than 25% local players in their senior sides. Sad but true.

One way I have heard of that teams are using to attract a steady stream of young players to the league is to offer U17 players $20-30 per week to play. It may be rumour but I understand Calivil did this last year.

Personally I don't agree with paying under aged players to play footy. It may be just me but I think it sends exactly the wrong message to young footballers.



I suggest the league adopts a "Player Points System" such as that introduced to the Central Murray Football league. The main objectives of the system are to:
  1. Encourage clubs to develop and promote their junior players
  2. Encourage clubs to recruit new players from outside the league
  3. Better manage increasing player payments and improve the financial stability of clubs.
You would need to tinker with the system to get it to work for the LVFL but at least the system works to make the league stronger and more healthy as apposed to slowly running it down like the current one.

I would be keen to hear from anyone who has first hand experience with the points system to give us some information on how it has worked and if it would help the LVFL.
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Points system does not work. I am originally from Central Murray Footy League and it is a perfect of example of how it does not work. The rich and strong clubs are getting stronger and the weaker and poorer are getting weaker. The gap is widening. The rich clubs target one or 2 of the best players from the other teams in the comp (worth max points) offer them ridiculous amounts that the weak club cannot match. They then go further away from the league and offer gun players (worth less points ridiculous amounts of money to travel to come and play. Balranald and even Tooleybuc to a lesser extent are examples of this
 
timebomb said:
Ahh thanks for that information, I am being told as we speak that Wandella is coached by Wilson ex Miti, and that would make sense as it is an ex miti boy standing here telling me that Inglewood played well, but in saying that are Wandella any sought of team to compare against. Where the heck is it anyway? They must be all right to attract Wilson there to coach, any reports on how Newbridge went in their practice match?
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Thanks for that. Ash WILSON, i believe was attracted to Wandella by a few ex kerang boys that are out there now. Think he might have neen assistant coach at Kerang 3 or so years ago with Shaun Filo. Dont know that Wandella are as strong as last year, have lost quite a few good players. GRFL wouldnt be near as strong as the LVFL, so i hope the hit out against them was a good one for Inglewood?
 
Frankenfurter said:
Honestly don't believe that a points based system can work not only in the LVFL but the three leagues in the Bendigo district.
The idea like i said is a noble one, but in terms of implementation i believe the bendigo region is a nightmare to try and make this work.

However it is a topic worthy of discussion.
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So Frankefurter what do you think of the idea of paying the under 17's a match payment to get them there to play. I didnt realise that Calivil did that. Do any other clubs inthe league currently pay there under 17's and what do others think of this idea, is it the answer to the problem or just creating another problem?
 

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One way I have heard of that teams are using to attract a steady stream of young players to the league is to offer U17 players $20-30 per week to play. It may be rumour but I understand Calivil did this last year.

Personally I don't agree with paying under aged players to play footy. It may be just me but I think it sends exactly the wrong message to young footballers.


I suggest the "Player Points System" .

I tend to agree mate , but maybe petrol vouchers for mum or dad might be the answer , after all they are the ones out of pocket . Also I like your Idea of the point system . But what happens if it is adopted by all leagues ? it still doesn't solve the shortage of players .
 
timebomb said:
So Frankefurter what do you think of the idea of paying the under 17's a match payment to get them there to play. I didnt realise that Calivil did that. Do any other clubs inthe league currently pay there under 17's and what do others think of this idea, is it the answer to the problem or just creating another problem?
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I don't think it's a sustainable way to attract juniors to your club, your better off trying to get kids to bring their mates along, sounds simple but i reckon kids want to play with mates and don't really care where they play at times.

I thought Calivil ran a mini bus to training and maybe games as well for the bendigo based kids to try and help recruit players. I believe good players would want to play under 17 football at Calivil because if good enough they will be given a game in the seniors, which is more than they can get at all other clubs.

I think with the right coach and the right support from committees all clubs within the LVFL should be able to put together a junior side and if they don't it doesn't come down to not enough kids or locals it comes down to a problem with that club. As harsh as that may sound
 
The idea like i said is a noble one, but in terms of implementation i believe the bendigo region is a nightmare to try and make this work.

However it is a topic worthy of discussion.[/quote]

The idea of the points system is to make the club work harder to develop their local talent. I have seen it in operation in the MPFL and every local player who continues to play with the club is minimum points. I think the points system isnt just about players but also makes the club focus on social gatherings, community involvement and the reputation of their club in gaining the services of juniors whose parents want to know they are being looked after.

The points system as per any system ( salary cap) can be cheated against but I dont think the system is solely based on players and performance on the ladder of the team. Everyone knows footy runs in cycles and if you have a great club, committee, playing group and social atmosphere people will be attrracted to the club. How many clubs in the LVFL could afford to pay 4 quality players $500-800 a game because realistically thats what you are competeing against at the moment with HDFL, the BFL and even other leagues from further afield.

I strongly believe the points system would work.
 
GG Rides Again said:
The idea like i said is a noble one, but in terms of implementation i believe the bendigo region is a nightmare to try and make this work.

However it is a topic worthy of discussion.
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The idea of the points system is to make the club work harder to develop their local talent. I have seen it in operation in the MPFL and every local player who continues to play with the club is minimum points. I think the points system isnt just about players but also makes the club focus on social gatherings, community involvement and the reputation of their club in gaining the services of juniors whose parents want to know they are being looked after.

The points system as per any system ( salary cap) can be cheated against but I dont think the system is solely based on players and performance on the ladder of the team. Everyone knows footy runs in cycles and if you have a great club, committee, playing group and social atmosphere people will be attrracted to the club. How many clubs in the LVFL could afford to pay 4 quality players $500-800 a game because realistically thats what you are competeing against at the moment with HDFL, the BFL and even other leagues from further afield.

I strongly believe the points system would work.[/quote]

How many district clubs (HDFL and LVFL) can develop local talent when the only step up from under 17's is senior football? The kids have the chance to go in to the BFL to play under 18's (and are heavily recruited by Sandhurst, Kangaroo Flat but that's another story) it's extremely difficult to recruit these kids back to your club after they have been to another club? Does a club then get penalised from a points perspective because the player has played at another club in the BFL?

The other big killer is kids leaving the bendigo district to go to uni or to chase work which in turns means they may not play at the club of their choice.

Regardless of a points system clubs are always going to face issues with paying players, that cannot be avoided but introducing a forced cap with points isn't going to help the weaker clubs in the league.
 
I am with Frankenfurter on this one, but still would like some more answers from others on what can be done to recruit more kids to the junior comp, the idea of running a mini bus out to training is a great idea, petrol vouchers for the folks another great idea, what about free entry into the ground for the parents of a junior footy/netballer, upon presentation of a card, you would still make money on them at the canteen.
This is something Huntly have introduced this year and others in the HDFL are following this trend. Rather than them getting dropped offf at the gate, and getting no entry money and no canteen money they are bringing all the family to the games and making the money back at the canteen, plus some parents are now involving themselves in the club and helping out.

Think about how much it must cost to play footy, boots and gear $150 (and that on a tight budget), club membership at least $50 a single, or $100 a family??? maybe. Petrol to games from say Bendigo would vary but allow $30, it mite even its self out a bit. Gate entry $8 plus elvee $2 plus raffle $2. Lunch and drinks, $20. thats a fair bit of dosh, I personally would not have a problem with it, and would sell my grand ma for the kids to be able to play, but not everyone is so inlove with the game.
Anyone got anymore idea on how to get the kids.
 
timebomb said:
So Frankefurter what do you think of the idea of paying the under 17's a match payment to get them there to play. I didnt realise that Calivil did that. Do any other clubs inthe league currently pay there under 17's and what do others think of this idea, is it the answer to the problem or just creating another problem?
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Calivil dont and never have paid any kids to play footy out there
 
I agree...LVFL footy is an expensive option for kids living in Bendigo....however....there are many benefits.

1. as much as some may not agree...but in general, LVFL clubs treat their U17's as a part of the club....unlike, in Bendigo, where Junior clubs and seniors clubs do not have good relationships. Senior clubs are not interested in their kids until they can play senior footy....or fill short numbers in the 18's. I bet if you asked members of the BFL clubs, who the coaches are for their local junior team..they would have no idea.

2. There is a community atmosphere in the LVFL. This doesn't exist in the BJFL. In the BJFL, kids play their game...then go straight home.

3. Footy draws are done in advance - home games are played "at home"....kids know that they will play every Saturday at 11.00am. Whereas, the BJFL play either Saturday or Sunday with no home games. The BJFL (through no fault of their own) can not prepare draws for the whole season, before the season commences.

4. Under 17 coaches are usually ex-footballers, or are clubmen. There are many many coaches in the BJFL that are not ....um....suitable....



In regard to U 17 payments......No club in the LVFL pays U 17 players. However, in 2007, some parents from Inglewood, donated $10 each to kids from Eaglehawk that played on permit to assist with player shortages. The $10 was to help cover costs.
 
other benefits of LVFL U 17 footy include.

5. BJFL players get to play on whatever footy ovals are available (usually shabby ovals)...2006 & 2007 the seasons were delayed due to not enough ovals in suitable condition.....whereas, LVFL communites realise the importance of their local footy community...the 2007 LVFL season was not delayed...some ovals, specifically Mitiamo were in fantastic condition.

6. Rego fees in the BJFL are minimum $100.

7. The opportunity to play interleague (U15 & U17's) is much easier than the BJFL.

8. A day trip every second Saturday for the footy season. Many Bendigo kids enjoy this about the LVFL.

9. LVFL U 17's have better access to qualified trainers.

10. LVFL U17's have a good opportunity to get to know senior and reserve players. Many train together at times. This creates a good pathway for junior footballers, to senior football.

Surely there are other good points aswell.
 
Some great ideas. Really like minibus, petrol vouchers, free entry for U17 players and maybe parents.
What about each U17 side being able to play 3 or 4 over age players. This would help keep 18 year old players that are not quite ready for senior football at their LVFL club as well as help make up the numbers.
In regards to Frankenfurter's question:
"Does a club then get penalised from a points perspective because the player has played at another club in the BFL?
My understanding would be that if a player returns to his home LVFL club following a year in the U18's in the BFL he would return as a one point player. i.e no penalty.
I suppose that situation highlights the need for any such system to be tinkered with to ensure it meets the leagues needs.
 

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KevinSheedyismad said:
Some great ideas. Really like minibus, petrol vouchers, free entry for U17 players and maybe parents.
What about each U17 side being able to play 3 or 4 over age players. This would help keep 18 year old players that are not quite ready for senior football at their LVFL club as well as help make up the numbers.
In regards to Frankenfurter's question:
"Does a club then get penalised from a points perspective because the player has played at another club in the BFL?
My understanding would be that if a player returns to his home LVFL club following a year in the U18's in the BFL he would return as a one point player. i.e no penalty.
I suppose that situation highlights the need for any such system to be tinkered with to ensure it meets the leagues needs.
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If a points system is the desired way to go for the VCFL then it need implementation across all leagues and districts rather than haphazardly being embraced by individual leagues.

I think the overage solution has a great deal of merit to it and would help clubs that may struggle with numbers at times.
 
An 18 year old kid who is not ready for seniors should be playing reserves. At the better clubs using last years examples Calivil and Newbridge, players would be part of a system then when and if they are ready they would get the chance to play in the senior team.

Playing another year of u17 football is not going to teach them anything, they will get over inflated egos which most kids have already now as they will more than likely be taller and stronger and need to play against men.

A kid at 15,16 or 17 who is good enough should be playing senior footy anyway, like Smith from Calivil.

A kid at 18 plays reserves or becomes a trainer or club person if they are no good enough and want to stay involved.
 
KevinSheedyismad said:
Some great ideas. Really like minibus...
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Some brilliant ideas. I know if Marong had a minibus it would be filled by the tight ar$e uni students instead of the U/17 though.

I would be good if we could have some of these ideas implemented on a league level rather than club level. I know when Marong struggled for Juniors just a few years ago the committee had to become very created, enthusiastic and determined to fill a U/17 side each week which has now paid off.

Good luck to all clubs finding the players.
 
FlyingDucks said:
An 18 year old kid who is not ready for seniors should be playing reserves. At the better clubs using last years examples Calivil and Newbridge, players would be part of a system then when and if they are ready they would get the chance to play in the senior team.

Playing another year of u17 football is not going to teach them anything, they will get over inflated egos which most kids have already now as they will more than likely be taller and stronger and need to play against men.

A kid at 15,16 or 17 who is good enough should be playing senior footy anyway, like Smith from Calivil.

A kid at 18 plays reserves or becomes a trainer or club person if they are no good enough and want to stay involved.
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This is all hypothetical but anyway let's thrash it out.

The option to play over-aged players would only be available to those clubs that could substaniate a short fall in numbers. You could predict that these sides would be in the bottom half of the ladder and as such an injection of 3 older kids would make the side a little more competitive however not so much that they dominate the comp.

Of course the primary benefit is the 3 kids stay at the club and you would think be more likely to play on with their home club in future years.

The 3 over -age kids that did play would most likely not be the most talented out of last years side as you would think the most talented would go through and play seniors or perhaps a mix of seniors and reserves in LVFL. Hence the most talented player would infact continue on playing at a level that challenges them and develops their game.

Conversly the over-aged players selected to stay in U17 would be more likely to be players that have not developed the skills to make senior or reserve level footy but could do with another year in the under age level to develop their game. So it becomes both a means to make up numbers but also develop your juniors.

There is also an arguement to kids born in the second half of the year struggle (particularly at representative level) when compared to kids born in the first half of the year. At the ages of 16,17 & 18, 6 months in age can make a pretty big difference. Maybe you could make a rule that the kids staying back are born in the second half of the year and therefore less likely to be a standout when playing back in U17's.

In regards to Smith from Calivil - every now and then one pops up that can really play. Of course they will go onto play senior footy - they are good enough. Ironically, you could argue that for this kid to reach his potential he would actually be better off playing BFL U18's then BFL seniors. But that is another arguement.

Finally, from my experience most 18 year old kids involved in footy want to play footy not be a trainer or club person. Shouldn't we give then every opportunity to do so? Just my opinion.
 
See on www.********************** they reckon that Newbridge can still be amongst the top teams of the LV they are doing Marongs next. What do guys think can Newbridge can win losing Lakey, Giri and that?
 
Junky Bish said:
See on www.********************** they reckon that Newbridge can still be amongst the top teams of the LV they are doing Marongs next. What do guys think can Newbridge can win losing Lakey, Giri and that?
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I tend to disagree with the prediction in this article.

The losses at this stage outweigh the recruits they have gained over summer.

I would say they will finish around 3rd or 4th.
 
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