Luke Ball "Officially" Walks..

[mdc]

I hope he doesn't end up at Collingwood simply because they failed him once already by not offering up a suitable trade. Instead it seems they plotted for a way to get him cheaply (in terms of what they had to give up, not the money).

85% of all AFL fans would probably agree that if Collingwood end up drafting Luke Ball through the National Draft then this represents an unacceptable manipulation of the draft rules. It is much akin to what happened with Nick Stevens (which was thwarted by Port to Carlton's benefit). Why can't they simply pay a fair price for trades like every other club does?

Surely you're taking the piss.

Collingwood offered what St. Kilda requested earlier in the week - that is, we "caved". You renegued, and as a result are left with nothing.

Now, that's your prerogative, but to suggest Collingwood refused to pay what he was worth when we payed your very asking price is inane.

 

[Optimax]

I'm disappointed that St Kilda will lose Luke Ball. A player of his ilk is a rare thing. He was one of my favourite players. A tough, courageous inside mid who got first hands on the ball or tackled the player who did. He is very clever, a natural leader and was at his best dishing the ball out through heavy traffic to clearance players from the guts. I wish him well in his future.

I hope he doesn't end up at Collingwood simply because they failed him once already by not offering up a suitable trade. Instead it seems they plotted for a way to get him cheaply (in terms of what they had to give up, not the money).

85% of all AFL fans would probably agree that if Collingwood end up drafting Luke Ball through the National Draft then this represents an unacceptable manipulation of the draft rules. It is much akin to what happened with Nick Stevens (which was thwarted by Port to Carlton's benefit). Why can't they simply pay a fair price for trades like every other club does?

It was a ross Lyon **** up Kildonan

Not our fault he is a tight ass that reneges on agreements from earlier in the week.

Your coach, your issue, reep what you sow

 

[Parallel Andy]

how about answering the question?

how'd your last gf go?

Terribly. Why don't you tell us how your last Grand Final win went?

 

[Gilbo19]

Fair trade. lets get one thing straight. The player has the position of power not the club.

He served 8 years under your mob and you didn't have the decency to honour his wishes. He wanted out.

You get what your given and you dont sit there pounding your chest as if your mightier then the all mighty.

You got compensation, it was 8 years of bleeding for the club and no-one bled more then him.

The player had every right to ask for a trade, you refused it.

What a load of crap.

Luke Ball asked to be traded, he doesn't have a right to be moved on to his club of choice at all.

St Kilda were put in a position were they could take what they were given from Collingwood (in this case nothing), try and convince him to stay (never going to happen) or try and convince him to go to a club that is willing to pay a reasonable price to get him (again, no chance) or let him go for nothing.

Giving Collingwood Ball for nothing improves their premiership chances, therefore reduces ours. Why would we give Collingwood a better chance to win the flag simply because a mercenary wants more money?

Going by your logic, say Luke Hodge wants to leave Hawthorn next year and he says he only wants to play for St Kilda you should give him to us for James Gwilt and pick 48, afterall it's better than nothing, and he has bled for the club...

Honestly, think before you post.

 

[clobba]

If Collingwood pay Ball $1M over two years, they are getting seriously ripped off. He's a good player, but worth nowhere near that.

LOL yeah wish him well where ever he ends up hes an inspiring hard nut, but if he can get that out of Collingwood I would love to see him there

 

[Wokko]

Surely you're taking the piss.

Collingwood offered what St. Kilda requested earlier in the week - that is, we "caved". You renegued, and as a result are left with nothing.

Now, that's your prerogative, but to suggest Collingwood refused to pay what he was worth when we payed your very asking price is inane.

MODFIGHT! Banhammers at 10 paces

Seriously though, the list of successful Collingwood trades is pretty long. Start with Steve McKee (a big fish at the time, damn rule changes stuffed him up) and move forward. It's a LONG list. Only Port and St Kilda couldn't be accommodated, both clubs just happened to be in the premiership window at the same time as Collingwood.

Difference is Port knew that Stevens would end up at Carlton, Saints didn't know where Ball would end up. If it's the Pies... well lets just say that the St Kilda admin will look like total wangs.

 

[smiddaz123]

85% of all AFL fans would probably agree that if Collingwood end up drafting Luke Ball through the National Draft then this represents an unacceptable manipulation of the draft rules. It is much akin to what happened with Nick Stevens (which was thwarted by Port to Carlton's benefit). Why can't they simply pay a fair price for trades like every other club does?

Well **** me, excuse us for not trading Alan Didak and our first round pick! It was fair enough for us to refuse Port that deal, spare us all thanks.

 

[Gilbo19]

Surely you're taking the piss.

Collingwood offered what St. Kilda requested earlier in the week - that is, we "caved". You renegued, and as a result are left with nothing.

Now, that's your prerogative, but to suggest Collingwood refused to pay what he was worth when we payed your very asking price is inane.

Situations change, we requested that deal before acquiring Lovett and Peake.

Do you think Collingwood would still have been willing to pay pick 14 for Jolly on Wednesday if they got Cox for pick 30 on Tuesday?

Collingwood were playing hardball and it back fired, yes they could get lukcy and might be able to pick him up in the draft, but St Kilda have done nothing wrong in this.




On another note, I'm really amazed that this has generated as much interest as it has, obviously it was always going to be a big deal for St Kilda and to a lesser extent Collingwood, but this is unbelievable, this is a guy that's not even in St Kilda's best 20 players, and probably wont even be in Collingwood's best 10...

 

[Gilbo19]

Terribly. Why don't you tell us how your last Grand Final win went?

our last GF win went fantastic, thanks for asking.

 

[Falchoon]

So true. The AFL introduced a system that rewarded teams for losing, the more you lost the better the deal, is it any wonder the Aints did well out of that?

Yep, the teams that ended up with 2+ priority picks were predictable.

 

[Gilbo19]

MODFIGHT! Banhammers at 10 paces

Seriously though, the list of successful Collingwood trades is pretty long. Start with Steve McKee (a big fish at the time, damn rule changes stuffed him up) and move forward. It's a LONG list. Only Port and St Kilda couldn't be accommodated, both clubs just happened to be in the premiership window at the same time as Collingwood.

Difference is Port knew that Stevens would end up at Carlton, Saints didn't know where Ball would end up. If it's the Pies... well lets just say that the St Kilda admin will look like total wangs.

Why would they look like wangs?

In trade week we were offered nothing for Luke Ball, has we given him to Collingwood for nothing we would have been increasing their chances whilst decreasing our chances at a flag in 2010.

By letting him go into the draft for nothing there is only a 1/15 chance that we are increasing collingwood's chances whilst decreasing ours...

 

[Falchoon]

I don't.

- He's slow
- Limited kicking depth
- Misses targets; and
- He wants big money over 2 years

word is Jobe will forego some money for the Captaincy

 

[witsend]

Fair trade. lets get one thing straight. The player has the position of power not the club.

He served 8 years under your mob and you didn't have the decency to honour his wishes. He wanted out.

You get what your given and you dont sit there pounding your chest as if your mightier then the all mighty.

You got compensation, it was 8 years of bleeding for the club and no-one bled more then him.

The player had every right to ask for a trade, you refused it.

Hear hear...when you shit on players who give their all for you, it will ruin you eventually.
Geelong treated senior players appallingly in the mid 90s and it hurt our culture terribly until Bomber, Frank, Brian and Balmey started insisting upon respect from and to players who do the right thing.

 

[morgoth]

I'm disappointed that St Kilda will lose Luke Ball. A player of his ilk is a rare thing. He was one of my favourite players. A tough, courageous inside mid who got first hands on the ball or tackled the player who did. He is very clever, a natural leader and was at his best dishing the ball out through heavy traffic to clearance players from the guts. I wish him well in his future.

I hope he doesn't end up at Collingwood simply because they failed him once already by not offering up a suitable trade. Instead it seems they plotted for a way to get him cheaply (in terms of what they had to give up, not the money).

85% of all AFL fans would probably agree that if Collingwood end up drafting Luke Ball through the National Draft then this represents an unacceptable manipulation of the draft rules. It is much akin to what happened with Nick Stevens (which was thwarted by Port to Carlton's benefit). Why can't they simply pay a fair price for trades like every other club does?

Yeah that's why we traded for Jolly, Tarrant and R Shaw. Look to your own club mate, they said they wanted xyz early in the week, we then agreed to that but Lyon wanted more.

Your stupidity will be someone elses gain. Pies have lost absolutely nothing out of this.

 

[smiddaz123]

Situations change, we requested that deal before acquiring Lovett and Peake.

Do you think Collingwood would still have been willing to pay pick 14 for Jolly on Wednesday if they got Cox for pick 30 on Tuesday?

Give us all a laugh, tell us how the Lovett/Peake aquisitions changed the Goldsack situation? How is the Jolly/Cox hypothetical a similar situation?

 

[mdc]

Situations change, we requested that deal before acquiring Lovett and Peake.

Do you think Collingwood would still have been willing to pay pick 14 for Jolly on Wednesday if they got Cox for pick 30 on Tuesday?

Again, as I said, it's entirely St.Kilda's right to change their mind. And I understand why they did it.

But you can't ask for something, get offered what you're asking for, renegue, and then complain that you weren't offered anything. It makes no damn sense.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Luke Ball asked to be traded, he doesn't have a right to be moved on to his club of choice at all..

Wrong.

During trade week no player is forced to be traded to a club he doesnt want to go to. Luke Ball was 100% withing his rights to ask to be traded to Collingwood and Collingwood only.

It was StKilda's choice to do a deal or lose him for nothing.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

On another note, I'm really amazed that this has generated as much interest as it has, obviously it was always going to be a big deal for St Kilda and to a lesser extent Collingwood, but this is unbelievable, this is a guy that's not even in St Kilda's best 20 players, and probably wont even be in Collingwood's best 10...

Sounds like pick 30 and Tyson Goldsack was a very good offer in that case...........

 

[Gone Critical]

I will explain this very simply so hopefully you can understand.

A football player is an asset because of the skills he has and what they can provide to a club. Therefore, unless you believe he's deliberately going to tank for you, his skills are the same and thus his value as an asset is the same, regardless of whether he wants to be there or not.

"Wasting a draft pick on an uncommitted player is a risk". Bollocks...once he nominates his price and contract length, he must go to any club who agrees to meet them. Then he is locked into staying there for the contract period so there's no risk. Maybe you're dreaming of the free agency that doesn't exist

Case closed

Please, I've got a bit of land I want to show you

 

[Pie eyed]

Why would they look like wangs?

In trade week we were offered nothing for Luke Ball, has we given him to Collingwood for nothing we would have been increasing their chances whilst decreasing our chances at a flag in 2010.

By letting him go into the draft for nothing there is only a 1/15 chance that we are increasing collingwood's chances whilst decreasing ours...

I think the final offer was Goldsack and 25.
Hardly nothing.
Nothing looks exactly like this....

The Club would like to thank Luke for his contribution throughout his eight year career at the Saints.

There will be no further comment on this matter as St Kilda now focuses on the upcoming AFL Drafts and preparation for the 2010 season.

 

[pies_this_year]

Why would they look like wangs?

In trade week we were offered nothing for Luke Ball, has we given him to Collingwood for nothing we would have been increasing their chances whilst decreasing our chances at a flag in 2010.

By letting him go into the draft for nothing there is only a 1/15 chance that we are increasing collingwood's chances whilst decreasing ours...

...whilst treating a club great and former captain like a piece of sh!t. Well done St. Kilda: all class.

you guys make me sick with the amount of backtracking, ridiculous comments made in the last month. So, is he good or not? is he in the best 22 or not? will the Saints premiership chance increase or decrease? is he worth pick 30 or nothing? Seriously, it changes per post according to you lot.

 

[cradle of filth]

Now he's just got to pray that he doesn't end up at Fremantle.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Now he's just got to pray that he doesn't end up at Fremantle.

No chance of that. they'll waste their salary cap on McPhee instead.

 

[Gilbo19]

Hear hear...when you shit on players who give their all for you, it will ruin you eventually.
Geelong treated senior players appallingly in the mid 90s and it hurt our culture terribly until Bomber, Frank, Brian and Balmey started insisting upon respect from and to players who do the right thing.

Luke Ball was on a 600k contract and played in a GF in the same year, yeah we really treated him like shit didn't we. Sends a strong message, if you're not 100% committed to the club, to hell with you.

Give us all a laugh, tell us how the Lovett/Peake aquisitions changed the Goldsack situation? How is the Jolly/Cox hypothetical a similar situation?

St Kilda showed interest in Goldsack as he could play in defense which would allow us to have Goddard and Gram in the midfield without hurting our structure. Since we acquired Lovett (and to a far lesser extent Peake) they can play the outside midfield roles that Goddard and Gram would have moved into. This means that because we have Lovett, Goddard can stay in the backline which eradicates any need for Goldsack.

The Jolly/Cox hypothetical as used to explain that clubs trade based on needs, a player's value isn't determined simply by their ability, it is determined by their ability, their characteristics and the team's needs.

For example, Geelong would be willing to pay a lot more for a key forward than St Kilda would. That doesn't have any implications on the players value in general, just what they are worth to these two teams.

Again, as I said, it's entirely St.Kilda's right to change their mind. And I understand why they did it.

But you can't ask for something, get offered what you're asking for, renegue, and then complain that you weren't offered anything. It makes no damn sense.

Goldsack had value to us before we acquired Lovett and Peake, that pushed Goldsack two players further behind on our list, therefore greatly diminshed his value. So whilst the offer was the same, the value was far lower on our end.

Wrong.

During trade week no player is forced to be traded to a club he doesnt want to go to. Luke Ball was 100% withing his rights to ask to be traded to Collingwood and Collingwood only.

It was StKilda's choice to do a deal or lose him for nothing.

That is true, every player has the right to say no to any deals.

Just like the club has the right to refuse to trade them.

The club stood strong and should be commended.

Sounds like pick 30 and Tyson Goldsack was a very good offer in that case...........

No actually because pick 30 and Tyson Goldsack offer nothing to our chances, whilst Luke Ball enhances Collingwood's chances.

So the minor compensation that we would recieve (in pick 30) is outweighed by the fact that we have strengthened one of our competitors as I am of the belief that Collingwood are a chance of making the top 4.

I think the final offer was Goldsack and 25.
Hardly nothing.

You can take Goldsack out of the equation, we wouldn't have taken him, if we did he would have likely been delisted.

 

[clobba]

...whilst treating a club great and former captain like a piece of sh!t. Well done St. Kilda: all class.

you guys make me sick with the amount of backtracking, ridiculous comments made in the last month. So, is he good or not? is he in the best 22 or not? will the Saints premiership chance increase or decrease? is he worth pick 30 or nothing? Seriously, it changes per post according to you lot.

I havent bothered commenting on his value other than stating I am not unhappy we didnt trade him but IMO
So, is he good or not yep hes good just not great anymore
is he in the best 22 or not Yes he is still in the best 22 though not irreplacable with our list atm
will the Saints premiership chance increase or decrease Maybe marginally decrease depending upon how others step up

all the above seems the most common reply other than some twats claiming he is a broken down hack out of a sense of betrayal or something, not in his best form but still far from that.