Luke Hodge v Chris Judd

[Claude Balls]

Classic BigFooty. The fact that Judd is winning by only a moderate margin - when Hodge's recent efforts are fresh in peoples' minds - is a good indication that Judd has been significantly better over the journey. Do it 12 months ago - i.e. up until their 30th birthday, or the first 90% of their career - and Judd wins the vote in a landslide.

 

[Eddie Dingle]

Hodge in a heartbeat.

#betterforlonger

 

[Claude Balls]

While that may be true (don't necessarily agree), Judd's best was in the best few (<10) players I've seen. Hodge, while putting in for longer was not as good IMO. If they were fires Judd burnt twice as bright for half as long if that makes sense.

You mean twice as bright for 3/4 as long. Meaning his overall output is significantly greater.

 

[carnthedons]

You mean twice as bright for 3/4 as long. Meaning his overall output is significantly greater.

Yeah that.

 

[detox]

Also I keep hearing "Judds best is Miles better than Hodges" ect. A Load of BS,

Whilst Judd in his West Coast days produced his best at a level of consistency Hodge hasn't had, Hodges best footy is good enough to be up there with anyones.

Against the dogs in 07 Hodge had 34 Touches, 10 inside 50's and 6 goals, from the midfield.
In 2012 against the bombers after 6 weeks out with injury they played him forward to ease him back in to the side and he kicked 5 goals.
Then there's his performance last Saturday as a midfielder, or his performances in defence, most notable inc 2008 GF, where his best almost single-handedly won us a flag.

Hodge is getting older, but when he was at his best, he is not far off anyone, let alone Judd.

 

[invinciBlues]

Geez, there are some desperate Hawthorn supporters in this thread.

"But what about that one game in 2007 Hodge played well in?!"

Judd set the record for Brownlow votes in the first 7 matches before spending the rest of the season with OP.

"Hodge dominates in defense!"

Name one direct opponent that Hodge has ever beaten.

"Hodge is a premiership captain and Norm smith medalist!"

So is Judd.

"Hodge can go forward and kick a bag!"

Career goals: Judd 224, Hodge 167.

"Judd's second Brownlow was a farce. Swan was robbed!"

Swan's first Brownlow was farce then, Judd was robbed.

Did I miss anything?

 

[TazHawk15]

Geez, there are some desperate Hawthorn supporters in this thread.

"But what about that one game in 2007 Hodge played well in?!"

Judd set the record for Brownlow votes in the first 7 matches before spending the rest of the season with OP.

"Hodge dominates in defense!"

Name one direct opponent that Hodge has ever beaten.

"Hodge is a premiership captain and Norm smith medalist!"

So is Judd.

"Hodge can go forward and kick a bag!"

Career goals: Judd 224, Hodge 167.

"Judd's second Brownlow was a farce. Swan was robbed!"

Swan's first Brownlow was farce then, Judd was robbed.

Did I miss anything?

Yes you missed the commentators "Judd kicks it to space"

Gee there are some desperate Carlton supporters in this thread.

Hodge went past Judd in 2010, only the ones that know nothing about footy missed this.

 

[invinciBlues]

Yes you missed the commentators "Judd kicks it to space"

Gee there are some desperate Carlton supporters in this thread.

I'm sure if Judd ever slowed down to Hodge's pace his kicking would be more on target. You ever tried kicking a footy while running at full tilt? Hodge hasnt. In fact I dont think I've ever seen Hodge do more than a casual strut on a footy field. But whatever, you seem to rate uncontested possessions higher than I do.

Hodge went past Judd in 2010, only the ones that know nothing about footy missed this.

Hodge had a better season in 2011 than Judd? Does anyone besides Hawthorn supporters think this?

 

[MinerBoy]

Geez, there are some desperate Hawthorn supporters in this thread.

There are also a lot of people who don't undestand the question being asked in the poll when they simply say "Judd is easily better".

 

[invinciBlues]

There are also a lot of people who don't undestand the question being asked in the poll when they simply say "Judd is easily better".

I would have thought most people would have selected the best player of the two in a draft. What metric could you possibly use to justify taking Hodge over Judd?

 

[MinerBoy]

I would have thought most people would have selected the best player of the two in a draft. What metric could you possibly use to justify taking Hodge over Judd?

Read the thread. It's been articulated often enough.

Some people value Hodge's all round package more.

 

[invinciBlues]

Read the thread. It's been articulated often enough.

Some people value Hodge's all round package more.

Can you explain this "all round package" that Hodge encompasses? Im still eagerly awaiting the reply to who has Hodge beaten in defense where he dominates. I honestly cant think of a direct opponent.

I dont think you can keep hanging your hat on the better leader thing either, I rate Judd much higher. Tom Bell has produced some dominate midfield performances this year after spending the off season with Judd learning how to run lines at stoppages. Thats just one example though, there are others.

 

[TazHawk15]

Hodge in a heartbeat.

#betterforlonger

From a non Hawthorn non Carlton non WCE supporter, you have summed it up perfectly.

 

[Mateyman]

Can you explain this "all round package" that Hodge encompasses? Im still eagerly awaiting the reply to who has Hodge beaten in defense where he dominates. I honestly cant think of a direct opponent.

I dont think you can keep hanging your hat on the better leader thing either, I rate Judd much higher. Tom Bell has produced some dominate midfield performances this year after spending the off season with Judd learning how to run lines at stoppages. Thats just one example though, there are others.

Not disagreeing RE Judd, but Bell has had about 1 good game this year, and 1 above 20 disposals

 

[00Stinger]

Love Hodge, but Judd has easily been the better player

 

[invinciBlues]

Not disagreeing RE Judd, but Bell has had about 1 good game this year, and 1 above 20 disposals

He had a couple of good games, but Rome wasn't built in a day. The point is is that people, some people, think Judd is a terrible leader. When it clearly isnt the case. He was in the leadership group as West Coast mounted their premiership attack, and was captain when they took home the flag. We were perennial cellar dwellers until Judd came across to us, and while we havent had the sort of success we'd have liked, he was instrumental in changing the culture at our club.

There is just no facet either on field or off where I could comfortably say "Yeah, I'd take Hodge over Judd". Hawks supporters are happy with Hodge, and you should be, he's a very good footballer. He's just not Judd good.

 

[TazHawk15]

There is just no facet either on field or off where I could comfortably say "Yeah, I'd take Hodge over Judd". Hawks supporters are happy with Hodge, and you should be, he's a very good footballer. He's just not Judd good.

It's your opinion.

 

[invinciBlues]

It's your opinion.

Its everyone's opinion except Hawthorn supporters.

 

[detox]

Its everyone's opinion except Hawthorn supporters.

No, not true.

I have discussed this with plenty of neutrals. Most would take Judd, but a fair amount would take Hodge. Also it gets discussed on panels ect every now and then. Always split.

Judd probably the better individual player, But Hodge has more strings to his bow and would bring more to a football club in terms of leadership and on field direction.

As for naming an opponent he has beaten in defence, I'll reel the first 2 off my head. Matthew Stokes and Max Rooke - 2008 Grand final.

I can see your hanging your hat on the "only plays loose man in defence" routine. You honestly think that no coach has ever tried to put a man on him when he goes back? Maybe you should shoot an email to them and tell them its a good idea to do it. You should then take off your 3 pairs of navy blue glasses and watch a game of football before trying to school people on bigfooty.

 

[invinciBlues]

No, not true.

I have discussed this with plenty of neutrals. Most would take Judd, but a fair amount would take Hodge. Also it gets discussed on panels ect every now and then. Always split.

Sure, ok

Judd probably the better individual player, But Hodge has more strings to his bow and would bring more to a football club in terms of leadership and on field direction.

"Probably" the better player? Take the blinkers off mate. I love this idea you have that Judd just stands around with his hands in his pockets offering nothing to his team mates.

And what are these "strings to his bow" you guys keep harping on about? I keep asking but all I get is vague responses...

As for naming an opponent he has beaten in defence, I'll reel the first 2 off my head. Matthew Stokes and Max Rooke - 2008 Grand final.

So no one of any significance then? I thought he dominates? Shouldn't he have played on, say, Johnson or Chapman? I mean, those two were the danger players for Geelong afterall.

But the fact is he didnt play on either of those two or Stokes or Rooke, he was loose down back and you know it.

I can see your hanging your hat on the "only plays loose man in defence" routine. You honestly think that no coach has ever tried to put a man on him when he goes back? Maybe you should shoot an email to them and tell them its a good idea to do it. You should then take off your 3 pairs of navy blue glasses and watch a game of football before trying to school people on bigfooty.

So you're saying its a good idea to play 7 in your forward line leaving 5 in your backline when the opposition has Buddy and Roughead up forward? Thats a great plan. Clearly, you have watched and played much football in your time

 

[detox]

Sure, ok



"Probably" the better player? Take the blinkers off mate. I love this idea you have that Judd just stands around with his hands in his pockets offering nothing to his team mates.

And what are these "strings to his bow" you guys keep harping on about? I keep asking but all I get is vague responses...

-More versatile. Can play basically every position on the ground. Judd can play Mid + Forward.
-Elite as a midfielder, and probably the best out of anyone at playing as a defensive sweeper.
-On field direction - Organises the matchups, points, directs and basically coaches the back 6 when he is back there. First move Clarkson makes 100% of the time when our opposition starts to get a run on - Hodge to defence.

So no one of any significance then? I thought he dominates? Shouldn't he have played on, say, Johnson or Chapman? I mean, those two were the danger players for Geelong afterall.

At opening bounce, Bomber sent stokes to him. They then tried to keep him honest by playing through stokes when they went forward. It failed miserably. Hodge zones off his opponent, so its not his job to decide who they send to him. I'm sure Hodge regrets not going to the Geelong bench, requesting a chat with Bomber, and asking him to send a better forward to him for future Bigfooty cred. He just got on with it and won a Norm Smith.

But the fact is he didnt play on either of those two or Stokes or Rooke, he was loose down back and you know it.

Mate this may surprise you. I have watched the game more times than you. I used to watch it every time I got home from a night on the piss and couldn't sleep. If you think that Stokes or Rooke didn't play on him and that he was "loose" the whole game, then perhaps I can send you my worn out DVD to watch several times until you are educated on the facts. Remember the famous footage of Stokes punching Hodge's injured ribs before the bounce- That wasn't CGI, it was Stokes standing next to the guy he had a job on. After he failed, they sent Rooke to him, who was marginally better than Stokes but still beaten.

When Hodge plays in defence, he has an opponent. What he does do is zone off his opponent and back is superior vision and reading of the play to effect a spoil or rebound. If you seriously think that the current and past crop of AFL coaches are that stupid that they haven't tried manning him up? C'mon mate.

So you're saying its a good idea to play 7 in your forward line leaving 5 in your backline when the opposition has Buddy and Roughead up forward? Thats a great plan. Clearly, you have watched and played much football in your time

Um... what?

 

[Brock Lesnar]

About even IMO. At their best they're as good as each other, but Ablett is still ahead of both of them by a substantial margin.

 

[winnyblues]

cant believe this is even a poll.
Judd's career shits all over HOdges. NO disrespect to Hodge

• 2× Brownlow Medal (2004, 2010)
• West Coast premiership 2006
• 2× Leigh Matthews Trophy 2006, 2011
• 6× All-Australian team 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011
• 2× West Coast Best and Fairest 2004, 2006
• 3× Carlton Best and Fairest 2008, 2009, 2010
• Norm Smith Medal 2005
• Geoff Christian Medal 2006
• AFLPA Best First Year Player Award 2002
• AFL Rising Star nominee
• 3× Ross Glendinning Medal 2005, 2005, 2006
• West Coast captain 2006–2007
• Carlton captain 2008–2012

vs

• Captain of Hawthorn FC: 2011-
• 3× Premiership Player: (2008, 2013, 2014)
• 2x Norm Smith Medal: (2008, 2014)
• 3× All-Australian: (2005, 2008, 2010)
• 2× Peter Crimmins Medal: (2005, 2010)
• AFL Rising Star Award: Nomination 2002
• International Rules Series: (2005)
• Hawthorn FC Best First Year Player Award: (2002)
• AFLPA Best Captain Award: (2014)

purrrrrlease. As a team player maybe Hodge? But Hodge has surrounded himself with better players. How can you look at those achievements and say Hodge is the better player LOL

 

[Bardo State]

I'll have some of what you're having if playing as a loose man in defence is relevant at all to this debate. As for the forward thing, bizarre. Judd has kicked 3 or more 17 times in his career, compared to Hodge who has done so 10 times.

And Judd has barely spent permanent time up forward since his early Eagles days.

It's ridiculous how many loose men Hawthorn play in their backline. Hodge, Gibson, Stratton, Birchall, Burgoyne, Suckling. I'm just amazed that opposition teams can't pick out the 4-5 inevitably free players.

 

[Membling]

Simply put if the 2001 draft was redone Judd would be first called.

Judd for career, Hodge for this year