Unsolved Madeleine McCann

[Angry Red Bull]

Having looked at the windows from inside and out and the elevation, the drop is to lower chest height. You couldn't place your feet on the ground from sitting on the window sill but when you did it would be no more than 21/2 ' drop imo. The opening is sufficient for a thin adult and a child. It is just awkward with your arms full to manoeuvre your body to sit on sill legs protruding from the window. I can see why they at least considered the issue. Not insurmountable. Is a possible route of escape imo. Given its advantages on concealment probably the preferred route of escape tbh.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

There were four in the Smith party who witnessed an individual carrying a child that could have been Maddie. Each gave descriptions to best available of how the man was dressed. NONE indicated he was wearing gloves as he carried the child.

If we accept that Brueckner is the perp and further that he escaped via the bedroom window as is possible even probable we are left with the dilemma that he was able to do so without leaving prints on that window and the shutter operating mechanism or elsewhere in apartment. The conclusion drawn was that he may have worn gloves. If you escape a window and are carrying a 3 year old and managed to get the child to remain asleep then you would be unable to remove your gloves whilst simultaneously carrying the child. Though possible it would be difficult and ultimately a step you wouldn't take given her sleeping state, being a state that you wouldn't want to disturb because it threatened exposure if she awoke.

Much later after witnessing Gerry Mcann a number of times in media video footage the Smith witnesses (unsure if all or just one) gave further statements that because of likeness and the manner he held his head that its possible that Gerry Mcann was the individual they saw carry the child or at least someone that closely resembles Gerry McCann.

Either Brueckner did wear gloves didn't leave prints and carried Maddie with them on in which case the witnesses would comment OR he didn't wear gloves and carried out the impossible task of opening the window and the shutter mechanism without leaving one print a step Kate was unable to do... she left 5 prints in that site.

If he did undertake the futile task of removing the gloves whilst holding a child exactly where did he put them? Bearing in mind he has his phone likely in his pocket (pinged within 30 mins of abduction remember) He carried no bag and the witnesses said he carried child upright across left shoulder. Pockets? Would they fit with a phone there also? Certainly not if they were leather. Perhaps if they were material but you wouldn't do it not to prevent disturbing child and also run risk of one falling from his pocket with DNA material on it and being collected as evidence

The case against Brueckner is already becoming dubious based upon the evidence. Where are his finger prints? Where were his gloves? Why did the person closely resemble Gerry McCann? Why were Kate's the only prints on the window and the shutter mechanism?

There are explanations of course.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Clarence Mitchell who was McCann family spokesman at the time confirmed to UK press that the Find Maddie fund was partially used to pay K & G mortgage - two mortgage payments in fact. I know from subsequent enquiry that some substantial portions of the money was used to Sue people who questioned the abduction theory

His explanation was that the fund was always possible for use for costs of McCann family.

Now that's funny I would think that most people who donated had an expectation that the Find Maddie fund would be used you know. ............to FIND MADDIE!!!!!!

Personal mortgage v Maddie Search costs

Yeah of course how silly of me they are virtually the same. Right?

Defamation action costs v Maddie Search costs.

Once again almost identical. Right?

 

[Kurve]

Clarence Mitchell who was McCann family spokesman at the time confirmed to UK press that the Find Maddie fund was partially used to pay K & G mortgage - two mortgage payments in fact. I know from subsequent enquiry that some substantial portions of the money was used to Sue people who questioned the abduction theory

It looks seedy but that two mortgage payments were made seems kind of trivial given the money involved and I suspect it might have been paying Kate and Gerry back for out of pocket expenses or similar. Do you have a link?

I'm a bit dubious that people are being sued for questioning the abduction theory, I've been right over most of the anti McCann social media groups, they're unrestrained.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Explanation:

The bedroom window was closed. When Kate found Maddie gone

It looks seedy but that two mortgage payments were made seems kind of trivial given the money involved and I suspect it might have been paying Kate and Gerry back for out of pocket expenses or similar. Do you have a link?

I'm a bit dubious that people are being sued for questioning the abduction theory, I've been right over most of the anti McCann social media groups, they're unrestrained.

They went on stress leave for quite some time after her disappearance. They likely ran out of money and simply used the fund because it had NO rules around its establishment having been hurriedly conceived. A charitable fund as this usually has a constitution and objects and the trustee can't disobey those objects. This didn't.

Kurve.... I don't know how to link. I'm an old dinosaur 64. lol. I did have a conversation with GF over weekend about this case and linking. She is going to help me.

The Clarence Mitchell reference I googled this morning. The knowledge about defamation actions ex fund arise form my enquires years ago. I'll look again and refresh knowledge whereabouts

 

[Kurve]

Explanation:

The bedroom window was closed. When Kate found Maddie gone

They went on stress leave for quite some time after her disappearance. They likely ran out of money and simply used the fund because it had NO rules around its establishment having been hurriedly conceived. A charitable fund as this usually has a constitution and objects and the trustee can't disobey those objects. This didn't.

Kurve.... I don't know how to link. I'm an old dinosaur 64. lol. I did have a conversation with GF over weekend about this case and linking. She is going to help me.

The Clarence Mitchell reference I googled this morning. The knowledge about defamation actions ex fund arise form my enquires years ago. I'll look again and refresh knowledge whereabouts

My understanding is that the McCanns set the fund up themselves initially, they were probably going to make some mistakes but with their high profiles and the way they tend to irritate the people, if they were less than honest I'm sure over all this time there would be consequences.

There's just nothing of any substance there to take them down for if I'm personally now a bit uncomfortable with the families of victims of serious crime hiring PR firms, influencers and the like for image management.

 

[johnymac1]

There's three countries now, Portugal, Germany and Great Britain who have him as the main suspect which probably means they're cooperatively sharing whatever evidence they all have and they're agreed. They're almost ready to prosecute but that might fall to Portugal and he may need to be extradited, I'm not sure.

Im pretty sure the UK has laws that protect the Identify of sex offenders. They can not release the identities, the addresses or any information that will identify a suspect. If the UK police has talked about CB they may have broken their own laws. I think any discussion has come from UK MSM, not the Met.
Its possible you have seen a retired officer commenting on the Case?

The Portuguese Arguido-
If a person becomes an arguido, they automatically gain certain rights that a witness or suspect would not have

 

[Kurve]

Im pretty sure the UK has laws that protect the Identify of sex offenders. They can not release the identities, the addresses or any information that will identify a suspect. If the UK police has talked about CB they may have broken their own laws. I think any discussion has come from UK MSM, not the Met.
Its possible you have seen a retired officer commenting on the Case?

The Portuguese Arguido-
If a person becomes an arguido, they automatically gain certain rights that a witness or suspect would not have

It was on the TV. Given it's always set to the ABC unless there's something specific I need to change the channel for and sit down, I think it must have been the ABC and generally more reliable than the rest.

 

[Kurve]

m pretty sure the UK has laws that protect the Identify of sex offenders. They can not release the identities, the addresses or any information that will identify a suspect. If the UK police has talked about CB they may have broken their own laws. I think any discussion has come from UK MSM, not the Met.

It may be as simple as the commentator's analysis of the situation in common language over a few soundbytes rather than any official UK police statement

 

[Angry Red Bull]

My understanding is that the McCanns set the fund up themselves initially, they were probably going to make some mistakes but with their high profiles and the way they tend to irritate the people, if they were less than honest I'm sure over all this time there would be consequences.

There's just nothing of any substance there to take them down for if I'm personally now a bit uncomfortable with the families of victims of serious crime hiring PR firms, influencers and the like for image management.

It cuts both ways. There was a notable case recently where a performer started making calls for donations for bush fire victims. A massive amount was collected but she actually nominated an existing charity linked to bush fire brigade and the objects were limited to purchase of fire equipment. The court denied use of funds for victims.

They had no known objects stipulated. Kind of interesting that they didn't given they are on speed dial to solicitors for defamation actions. You would think the firm also had specialists to draft document. Indeed I could have drafted it for them.

Have they done anything illegal? Unlikely from criminal perspective because they haven't breached any rules there being none. There is however common law tort relating to fraudulent misrepresentation. A donor could sue them saying they took donations with deceptive conduct as to use. And the donor would likely win once the evidence was supplied about mortgage payments

 

[Kurve]

They had no known objects stipulated. Kind of interesting that they didn't given they are on speed dial to solicitors for defamation actions. You would think the firm also had specialists to draft document. Indeed I could have drafted it for them.

My reading is that their 'fund' or whatever it was, was grass roots and that they did it on their own for some time. The McCanns were one of the first that I can recall to raise that kind of fund as the family of a victim of serious crime.

They're not POI/suspects and someone else is squarely in the frame.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

McCann are no longer official suspects. That said the blood analysis of 'mixed' blood DNA analysis of the car boot sample and the behind the lounge sample were inconclusive. The DNA couldn't be untangled to identify Maddie

The leading DNA forensic specialist in the world Dr Perlin has said that with advancements he could now positively resolve the question.....needs a week to analyse.

There is sufficient evidence against the McCann's that would mean there would be reasonable doubt for Brueckner (assuming Portugal uses same principle). I suspect that in advancing against Brueckner it will necessarily mean it needs resolution for McCann.

This whole thing hopefully will resolve one way or the other because of Brueckner. If DNA analysis shows its Maddie then the 15 year charade will be up.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

.

 

[johnymac1]

McCann are no longer official suspects. That said the blood analysis of 'mixed' blood DNA analysis of the car boot sample and the behind the lounge sample were inconclusive. The DNA couldn't be untangled to identify Maddie

The leading DNA forensic specialist in the world Dr Perlin has said that with advancements he could now positively resolve the question.....needs a week to analyse.

There is sufficient evidence against the McCann's that would mean there would be reasonable doubt for Brueckner (assuming Portugal uses same principle). I suspect that in advancing against Brueckner it will necessarily mean it needs resolution for McCann.

This whole thing hopefully will resolve one way or the other because of Brueckner. If DNA analysis shows its Maddie then the 15 year charade will be up.

Its important they collect DNA from Brueckner, to compare with Traces lifted from the Apartment in the PDL.
This will either rule him in or out as a suspect. As the DNA is held in the UK. this will probably never happen.

To me, its the next logical step, that's if they are serious in charging him.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I'll start a go fund me page for the investigators to do DNA analysis with Dr Perlin.

UK Govt to sue them for the $20m spent looking. And laying charges

Amaral to return serve in defamation action against McCann

Portugal to charge them for perjury or even negligent homicide

It would be quite eventful one would imagine.

 

[Kurve]

I'll start a go fund me page for the investigators to do DNA analysis with Dr Perlin.

UK Govt to sue them for the $20m spent looking. And laying charges

Amaral to return serve in defamation action against McCann

Portugal to charge them for perjury or even negligent homicide

It would be quite eventful one would imagine.

Dr. Perlin isn't going to solve the case even if Maddie's DNA was found in the boot, it won't tell the story of how it got there. It may not even be surprising given the kids nappies and rubbish from inside the apartment was held and transported in the boot.

I just don't know how y'all are going to cope if Brueckner is charged and convicted.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I have no bent for or against Brueckner v Mcann. No bias whatsover just a desire for truth. If he is PROVEN guilty hamner the bastard. Supremely confident he won't be. There simply can't be two explanations because one destroys the other. if they run with circumstantial evidence no DNA no finger prints and just a phone ping and a drunken confession this will be a disgrace.

The samples that were taken was of blood Kurve in the boot of a car hired by Mcann and behind the lounge. Blood that shouldn't be there if the story provided is correct. Do 3 year olds usually sit in boots bleeding?

There was cadavar pointing to a t-shirt Kate wore a d another piece of clothing possibly a skirt and on Maddies cuddle toy. Kate's explanation of that is she is a Dr and must have worn a T-shirt to work one day coming in contact with a dead person and then came home and touched the cuddle toy. lol I would think a more likely explanation is a child was found dead and a mother grief stricken cuddled her with her toy. I wouldn't be surprised if she bought the shirt on that holiday.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I should add the car was hired AFTER Maddie went missing. No nappies or anything associated with Maddie. Just blood that if tied to Maddie AFTER the car was hired proves her remains were in that boot

 

[Kurve]

I should add the car was hired AFTER Maddie went missing. No nappies or anything associated with Maddie. Just blood that if tied to Maddie AFTER the car was hired proves her remains were in that boot

Maddie has siblings, a very close DNA match. Possibly not able to tell them apart with the sample that they have. It's been fifteen years since Maddie was taken and there's nothing that points to the McCanns, just some vague implications and a book an ex cop in Portugal wrote after failing to solve the case.

IMO the reason they haven't moved on Brueckner faster is that they don't really have to. Meanwhile the three countries who are holding evidence play a long game not sharing and at least two of them, Portugal and Germany want the prize trial and conviction?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Maddie has siblings, a very close DNA match. Possibly not able to tell them apart with the sample that they have. It's been fifteen years since Maddie was taken and there's nothing that points to the McCanns, just some vague implications and a book an ex cop in Portugal wrote after failing to solve the case.

IMO the reason they haven't moved on Brueckner faster is that they don't really have to. Meanwhile the three countries who are holding evidence play a long game not sharing and at least two of them, Portugal and Germany want the prize trial and conviction?

Yeah I'm not too sure of the whole Aguido statute of limitations and conviction relationship. Perhaps he just needs to be Aguido to stay the 15 years which is supposed to run out on 3rd May. We will find out soon I guess. He sounds like a serious miscreant whether or not he takes the rap for Maddie

 

[jason_recliner]

I have no bent for or against Brueckner v Mcann. No bias whatsover just a desire for truth. If he is PROVEN guilty hamner the bastard. Supremely confident he won't be. There simply can't be two explanations because one destroys the other. if they run with circumstantial evidence no DNA no finger prints and just a phone ping and a drunken confession this will be a disgrace.

The samples that were taken was of blood Kurve in the boot of a car hired by Mcann and behind the lounge. Blood that shouldn't be there if the story provided is correct. Do 3 year olds usually sit in boots bleeding?

There was cadavar pointing to a t-shirt Kate wore a d another piece of clothing possibly a skirt and on Maddies cuddle toy. Kate's explanation of that is she is a Dr and must have worn a T-shirt to work one day coming in contact with a dead person and then came home and touched the cuddle toy. lol I would think a more likely explanation is a child was found dead and a mother grief stricken cuddled her with her toy. I wouldn't be surprised if she bought the shirt on that holiday.

That's not the only evidence against CB. As has been explained several times in this thread.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Gerry's words in Portugese interview:


"Being portrayed as guilty was particularly difficult....er ah.......but not as hard ...as the night we found her"

ADMISSION OF GUILTY KNOWLEDGE

And on tape!!!!!

Slam dunk......open and shut.....thank you linesmen. Thank you ball boys.

 

[Kurve]

Gerry's words in Portugese interview:


"Being portrayed as guilty was particularly difficult....er ah.......but not as hard ...as the night we found her"

ADMISSION OF GUILTY KNOWLEDGE

And on tape!!!!!

Slam dunk......open and shut.....thank you linesmen. Thank you ball boys.

hah no it's not. A few jumbled up words when a person is under stress and not used to speaking in public through nerves of whatever, does not make a case.

Sometimes it can be interesting but we see experienced professionals and politicians do that sort of thing all the time and it's seized on by their opponents, goes nowhere.

 

[BonzaRam]

This is a copy of the email between the Forensic Scientists -Dr Lowe (UK FSS) and Detective Prior (Head of UK Investigation), it might help understand why the alleged DNA of MC found in the boot of the hire car is useless.

Oh and didn't the tests show the blood found the bedroom was not Madeleine's because it came from a male?

 

[megadeth86]

My reading is that their 'fund' or whatever it was, was grass ros and that they did it on their own for some time. The McCanns were one of the first that I can recall to raise that kind of fund as the family of a victim of serious crime.

They're not POI/suspects and someone else is squarely in the frame.

Sorry I copied your post twice by mistake. There might have been a similar fund set up by parents before the McCann's. Remember the young Englishwoman who went to Japan to work in a hostess bar and then was murdered by a client while on a "date"? I forget her name, I think the book was called Heart of Darkness or Eating the Darkness or similar. Her parents set up an investigation fund that probably predates the McCann's.

My reading is that their 'fund' or whatever it was, was grass roots and that they did it on their own for some time. The McCanns were one of the first that I can recall to raise that kind of fund as the family of a victim of serious crime.

They're not POI/suspects and someone else is squarely in the frame.