Make or Break Seasons

[threesixpio]

I don't Understand all the hate for hartung. He's been played as the third choice wingman when he should of been starting on the ground getting game time. I think he'll b a much better player than hill and has more of a crack. Tackling isn't something wingmen have to worry about. It's a bonus if they can but it's never been a big part of isaacs game and he's one of the best wingers in the game. I've got a feeling a lot of ppl will Be eating there words by the end of the year

There are much worse young wingman than Billy for sure. Hoping he has a similar explosion as a player as that round one game against Geelong a couple of years ago for Hill. Can't remember a first quarter that good from a Hawthorn wingman in recent years. (From memory he blew up from there and was subbed off but I was still mega excited)

 

[Noneedforaname]

Billy is a poor mans Benny McGlynn. Showed glimpses when he first arrived, and we were right to be excited. Just hasnt developed.

The way he runs in circles, getting himself into such poor positions. It shouldnt happen for someone who has been in our system this long. He calls for the ball in some pretty dire and dumb spots, but then makes it worse with his hospital handpasses to unsuspecting teammates. Liability.

He punishes himself by perhaps trying to hard, and maybe that was from the perceived pressure of having to compete with Hill or some other young gun. Hopefully, he gets a good run to establish himself early in year, but he better get it right.

Gotta say I think not trying to trade him ws my biggest disappointment of the trade period, but Sammy and Lew did steal that thunder.

Langford ... just wish theyd swap his role with Shiels. On balance, we may get a lesser retn from Shiels (only slightly), but the return from Langers would be a massive increase on his current output. Not Shiel like maybe, but again, on average, a better return for the team.

 

[Comb Over]

I have identified 4 players who I believe are facing career defining seasons – make or break if you will.


Player 1 – Will Langford


Coming into his 6th season with the Hawks, Will has displayed he belongs at the top level and for evidence, look no further than his final 6 weeks of the 2014 season and in particular his 3 finals that year. But as we know in the AFL, you can’t afford to live on past glories and Will has dropped right off the pace the past 2 season whether it be through form or fitness.

We all accept his skills and in particular his disposal by foot needs work, however, with both Sammy and Jordie moving on, the opportunity presents itself for Will to once again cement a permanent spot in the side and become that influential player we have all witnessed. You can never question his commitment but decision making and disposal need to be his key areas of focus. With the 2 departures mentioned, if he is unable to solidify a spot in our best side, his time at the Hawks may come to an abrupt end. Personally however, I expect him to have a big pre-season and really hit the ground running in 2017 and become a solid contributor week in and week as we push for another finals series.



Player 2 – Tim O’Brien


A second round draft pick from 2012, TOB is entering his 5th season at the club. Whilst he has shown glimpses when given an opportunity in the seniors, he struggles terribly with consistency and staying involved in the game. The concern for me is when playing at Box Hill, it is yet to really dominate a game over 4 quarters which is what you want to see from a young KPP demanding a spot in the seniors. Gathering 10-12 possessions at the lower level isn’t going to cut it in the seniors. TOB has great athleticism, is a good set shot for goal and can both create a contest and take a grab – but he really needs to be involved for much longer periods of the game. And without stating the obvious, needs to put on some size. Whereas I am bullish about Will, I have nowhere near as much confidence in Tim as the glimpses he has shown have been too few and far apart. In saying that, with Rough due to miss the first part of the season, there is certainly an opportunity there for the talking if he really wants it.


Player 3 – Jonathan O’Rourke


Having been drafted at No 2 in the same 2012 draft as TOB, JOR has certainly failed to live up to his lofty billing both at the Giants and in his time with us and the clock is quickly ticking. For me, the frustration with JOR is whenever he wins possession his first option is to look for a handball. When he was drafted his bio noted the he had speed to break away from stoppages and possessed his pin point field kicking. If these are his attributes, why isn’t he using them?? It’s great to look to dish of the handball and bring team mates into the game, but why not use your pace and use your kicking skills to break play open? In his limited appearances, he also needs to find a way to win more of the ball as being a midfielder at AFL level winning 13-15 possession is not going to cut it.

I know he has had some injuries but again, with 2 stalwarts in Mitchell and Lewis moving on and our lack of depth in the midfield highlighted during this season’s final series, improvement from a player such as JOR is critical to our future success. JOR – your time is NOW!


Player 4 – Dallas Willsmore


A rookie selection in 2017 Dallas enters his 3rd year on the list and 2nd on the senior list after his upgrading. While a touch slow, Dallas has the physical attributes to make it at senior level, height, size, good hands and a lovely left peg. The knock on him for mind, is his lack of physicality.

He started last season at Box Hill on fire playing off the half back line and regularly gather 25-30 touches with a high efficiency rating. While his form dropped off in the 2nd half of the year, the concern for me why we he couldn’t get a game when he was in form and we had an extensive injury list at the time? What were the coaches demanding of him that he wasn’t delivering? With another pre-season under his belt and spots up for grabs, Dallas needs to take every opportunity that comes his way to show he deserves his place on the list and finally make his senior debut. I hope this is a Suckers situation repeating itself – if you remember we had him on the rookie list for 3 years before upgrading him and him making his debut and then went on to become a 2 time premiership player. A lot of similarities in terms of how they both play.

Outstanding OP but I would have added Ryan Schoenmakers to the list also.

Personally I see more up side in O'Brien going forward.

My reasons are based on largely mobility and hands.

TOB has Shoe covered for both imo and if he can develop a ruthless desire to succeed he will be far the better footballer.

I'm tipping if TOB has a sustained run at it and takes his opportunity we will have one of the leagues best swing men on our hands.

 

[madhawksfan]

JOR and Langford have huge opportunities with Hill, Mitch and Lewis leaving and Hodge and Burgoyne likely to retire in the next year or two.

I see Jono as a hybrid mid who can play inside or out and they are handy to have. He showed flashes this year and just needs to believe he belongs to become a very solid contributor.

Langers has had two sub-par seasons after looking ready for stardom at the end of 2014. Liam Picken showed that it is possible to go from a scrapper to a very good player with a consistent run and defined role at senior level. Maybe a role as a defensive HFF to counter guys like JJ, Shaw, Laird, Pittard etc and/or tagging quicker/explosive mids like Danger, Treloar, Ward, Shuey etc.

For mine TOB will be given another 2 years based on the patience shown with Schoey. He does need to start dominating at VFL level then be a 1-2 goal a game player at senior level who crashes packs and takes a few grabs each week. He is unlikely to put on a heap of bulk based on his body shape so he needs to become a Gunston/Lynch (ADE) style of link up third tall. Plenty to work with but needs more mongrel and confidence.

Willsmore I don't know much about not being able to attend BH games.

The hate of Hartung is a little harsh. He's not in the side to be a bash and crash mid. He does need to improve his running patterns and look to use his speed to take the game on and break into space more often.

He was however one of the few mids this year who kicked goals on the run in multiple games.

 

[seysearles]

As an exercise in reality, I would be interested to know if anyone can think of examples of players that were in the positions that Langford (24 in 2017), O'Rourke (23), O'Brien (23) , Schoenmakers (26) and Willsmore (22) are all in and have turned it dramatically around and become guns. I cant think of too many/any. I would venture to think that most of these guys are destined to be average at best.

edit: I just thought of JPK who magically went from a battler to a gun at the age of 23. Any others?

 

[Brant]

As an exercise in reality, I would be interested to know if anyone can think of examples of players that were in the positions that Langford (24 in 2017), O'Rourke (23), O'Brien (23) , Schoenmakers (26) and Willsmore (22) are all in and have turned it dramatically around and become guns. I cant think of too many/any. I would venture to think that most of these guys are destined to be average at best.

edit: I just thought of JPK who magically went from a battler to a gun at the age of 23. Any others?

Jab Watson was certainly no world-beater, but managed to turn it all around in 2012...

Saints had a couple of average/reasonable players that developed into good role players in their senior years. Brett Voss & Andrew Thompson from the early 00's. Sure, it was on the back of some bloody amazing teammates, but we're not short on amazing players so there are similarities.

And maybe look not for guys to suddenly become better players based on skill/ability, but who may thrive under different circumstances. Gibbo & Hale for example. Hale was playing in the 2's & Gibbo was being wasted, even running through the middle. Both guys became better players, but mainly because of the change in the way that they were used.

I imagine that we're about to undergo a fundamental change to our 2016 game plan. We also have the most innovative Coach in the Leauge, probably ever (in this sport).

I reckon Langers will really benefit from a change of game plan. Winning ball out of the middle, rather than conceding possession & hoping for turnovers across HB will play to his (Langers') strengths. It isn't a change of environment, but he'll be used differently in 2017 than he has been in 2015/6. That may well help increase his effectiveness.

From memory, Lonergan (geelong) started out a sh*t forward before becoming an effective defender. I reckon we'll see TO'B's best footy as a Gibbo-replacement.

Not sure why, but I still reckon JO'R will come good.

 

[StillAtLarge]

As an exercise in reality, I would be interested to know if anyone can think of examples of players that were in the positions that Langford (24 in 2017), O'Rourke (23), O'Brien (23) , Schoenmakers (26) and Willsmore (22) are all in and have turned it dramatically around and become guns. I cant think of too many/any. I would venture to think that most of these guys are destined to be average at best.

edit: I just thought of JPK who magically went from a battler to a gun at the age of 23. Any others?

Tom Lonergan is one that springs to mind. Went from a battling key forward into a gun key defender, albeit surrounded by A graders in Scarlett & Taylor

 

[walhawk]

As an exercise in reality, I would be interested to know if anyone can think of examples of players that were in the positions that Langford (24 in 2017), O'Rourke (23), O'Brien (23) , Schoenmakers (26) and Willsmore (22) are all in and have turned it dramatically around and become guns. I cant think of too many/any. I would venture to think that most of these guys are destined to be average at best.

edit: I just thought of JPK who magically went from a battler to a gun at the age of 23. Any others?

JPK had just turned 21 when traded.

 

[garyayresmullet]

Going back a few years (1980) but Russell Greene was 23 when he moved from the Saints to the Hawks. He went on to win 3 flags and was AFL MVP in 1984

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Was hoped to. Doesn't remotely have Sewell's poise. Sewell was a hard nut, but he never made me gulp every time his boot went near the ball.

Agree. Sewell was a big time player, and in my opinion underrated throughout most of his career.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

I love how everyone hates schoenmakers

The guy is not a deep forward, the guy is not a deep defender

He is a classic CHF/CHB
He forces players wide when he's defending. He is not a gorilla backman
When forward, he needs space on the flanks/wing to be the link man

Instead, since being recruited he doesn't most of the time being the stop-gap, filling holes as his teammates went down

It is no surprise that his best sequence of games came when we had a full list, meaning he could play at half forward.

 

[threesixpio]

I love how everyone hates schoenmakers

The guy is not a deep forward, the guy is not a deep defender

He is a classic CHF/CHB
He forces players wide when he's defending. He is not a gorilla backman
When forward, he needs space on the flanks/wing to be the link man

Instead, since being recruited he doesn't most of the time being the stop-gap, filling holes as his teammates went down

It is no surprise that his best sequence of games came when we had a full list, meaning he could play at half forward.

Agree. When playing in the above roles he is great. Like him better as CHF/Flanker type ultimately. Great set shot and a VERY good field kicker. Took the club years to work this out but Schoey has had to fill a whole lot of roles. Wish we had a fwd line of him, Gunner and Roughy more often with the three smalls. It works well. I think Sicily and him will battle it out though and I wonder if Schoey has left it too late. If TOB shows a bit next year we have major competition for that 6th spot (assuming Roughy returns). That's a GOOD thing though

 

[Tasmaniac]

That's pretty f**cked up just quietly. Vanilla?

How is that a problem.

Vanilla = a term for a player who appears to have no outstanding attributes

JOR = Doesn't appear to have any outstanding attributes.

JOR = Vanilla

Doesn't mean he won't make it, but I've been disappointed. Maybe change your name to Vanilla O'Rourke, or Neapolitan O'Rourke. But not Strawberry O'Rourke, I never liked Strawberry.

 

[Hawkas1988]

JOR is as underwhelming as they come unfortunately

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[threesixpio]

How is that a problem.

Vanilla = a term for a player who appears to have no outstanding attributes

JOR = Doesn't appear to have any outstanding attributes.

JOR = Vanilla

Doesn't mean he won't make it, but I've been disappointed. Maybe change your name to Vanilla O'Rourke, or Neapolitan O'Rourke. But not Strawberry O'Rourke, I never liked Strawberry.

Misunderstood post. I meant that my uncle was f**ked up for always ordering vanilla at the Gelateria