Game Day Match Sim - Roos v Tigers - Arden St - 10am

[berniemccarthy]

yesterday was a good day for us, no doubt
not sure Dusty was at a centre bounce tho!
looked like he could of kicked 8 if he felt like it
we have a lot of work to do down back

He barely got into second gear. Will demolish teams from there this season.

 

[Liam Boy]

Getting rid of FIGJAM Horne-Francis for Sheezel was an absolute master stroke. Happy for you North fans. Kid looks like he's going to be a special player.

Probably would've taken Sheezel with pick 1 anyway, but instead we got him and Wardlaw. I'm very happy for people to directly compare Sheezel to JHF though so maybe ignore this.

 

[ferball]

I think people are expecting too much from Jack Z right now. He’s an “all effort” player at this stage. I only saw the first half of the game. Obviously, the Sheezel and Goater cameos were great. However, from my perspective, the single best individual act of the first half was clearly Jack’s “Archer-like” mark. The fact that everyone else, on both sides, was struggling to mark overhead in the swirling wind emphasised his effort even more.


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Multiple times his commitment to the contest stopped their ball movement. Often he was the only player demonstrating that 90s style commitment to the contest - to just hit it at pace and either mark or halve the contest. I dunno if it makes up for his other shortcomings but its the sort of effort everyone needs to bring if we want a flag.

 

[ferball]

Can someone please explain to me why on earth JZ is still taking kicks ins? We all know it’s going 50m down the line to a contest. What’s the point?

On one occasion he took the kick in, roosted it 60 metres to the wing and hit up Xerri who had led and then busted the pack to mark. It was the only time I really noticed the kick ins. Someone gave the ball to him to take it too and I actually thought to myself "WTF is JZ doing that for? JFC!"

About three seconds later I was thinking "Well I got that wrong."

If 80% of his kick ins lead to something like that happening then he is doing good stuff for us.

 

[ferball]

Sounds crazy, but I suspect we would have won even with Jy, Cunners and Goldie out, if only it was TT in defence instead of JZ.

Didn't they not count a Turner goal cos he marked it or got a free then kicked after the two minute warning?

Or did they end up counting that goal?

 

[Makeshift Park]

Didn't they not count a Turner goal cos he marked it or got a free then kicked after the two minute warning?

Or did they end up counting that goal?

Ha, it’s possible! The televised scoreboard was pretty lose.

 

[ferball]

Ha, it’s possible! The televised scoreboard was pretty lose.

Honestly I don't care about the score.

I was happy with the way we played, that's enough really.

I want us to win next week tho. That's more of a proper practice game.

 

[The Nostradamus]

Getting rid of FIGJAM Horne-Francis for Sheezel was an absolute master stroke. Happy for you North fans. Kid looks like he's going to be a special player.

We were always taking Sheezel regardless as someone mentioned above (with our original first pick)

It’s wardlaw and ports future first vs JHF

Let’s hope wardlaw turns out alright

 

[Harris 10]

Does anyone know where to go for stats of the practice games?

I've been hunting around for them as well. Interested to see our stats and the WC stats considering we play them 1st up.

 

[Rod Stroker]

Taylor won’t make it. It’s almost like a wants to fumble.

I think Taylor has a better shot of making it than Spicer, because at least Taylor can inject himself into the contest and on occasions end up the ball.

Spicer just looks out of his depth.

 

[The Nostradamus]

Zurhaar going to be that de goey type player for us

 

[DesertRoo]

The main group post-Cunners is:

LDU: 188cm
Wardlaw: 182cm
Phillips: 180cm
Simpkin: 182cm
Powell: 183cm

It's not a big midfield group. Its also not just about height. None of those guys are a bullying presence like Cunnington, even if they are scrappy.

Goater or TT aren't necessarily bringing that, either.

Harley Reid is only 185cm but he looks like he throws his size around. Zurhaar definitely does but needs to develop as a midfielder.

Paul Curtis might be another answer here as he fills out. Just 185cm but strong and aggressive.

A Smokey that might be a chance in that mould is Braydon, that kid is thick for a first year player.

 

[SmallRoo]

The main group post-Cunners is:

LDU: 188cm
Wardlaw: 182cm
Phillips: 180cm
Simpkin: 182cm
Powell: 183cm

It's not a big midfield group. Its also not just about height. None of those guys are a bullying presence like Cunnington, even if they are scrappy.

Goater or TT aren't necessarily bringing that, either.

Harley Reid is only 185cm but he looks like he throws his size around. Zurhaar definitely does but needs to develop as a midfielder.

Paul Curtis might be another answer here as he fills out. Just 185cm but strong and aggressive.

I value power > height. Even though Prestia is 175cm he plays like a bit of a bull.
So I have no issue with wardlaw and Phillips being on the smaller side, given their power/strength potential.

 

[gustaaf]

I think they are giving Zurhaar as much time in the middle as possible so he can get experience in that role.

Ben has missed a lot of footy in recent years and isn't a spring chicken, Clarkson will want to have as many good options as possible depending on how things pan out.

I wish we would just play Zurhaar forward of the centre square. With two good talls as forward targets he could either be another target or cause mayhem when the ball hits the deck. His pressure will cause turnovers and help to lock the ball in our attacking area for longer than has been the case for many years. I think he is the perfect foil for Larkey and Comben and the likes of Curtis and Sheezel will benefit immensely from the opportunities his pressure on the ball would create for them. I just don't see Cam being nearly as effective and important as a mid. Cam was good with very little support last year. I think he'll be great with better players around him and a better forward structure.

 

[franjon]

Richmond just went out and bought a midfield to replace Cotchin and Martin, and yet we have a home grown one that already looks to be better.

It's not odd with Richmond

 

[danj]

Tries to bust through too often and gets caught. Needs to learn to dish off to runners but I don’t think he’s really got that string in his bow.
Can see him being a very handy impact player in the middle but for mine he’s far better suited playing the majority of time forward.

For the time being

 

[Agenda 21]

Yes. Not that I think Dawson wasn't worth picking up, he would have been taken a few picks later on. Massimo just seemed to have a higher ceiling at the time. We picked Dawson because we refused to take KPP year after year in the draft even with later picks.



I don't even think it is a hindsight issue, he was the most talented option and filled a need. KPD depth was a problem as well but we have resolved that bringing in Corr and Logue, Dawson is replacing Walker as depth.



It is... but a bigger issue is that we won't drop Ziebell or McDonald so we have limited capacity to play other small/medium defenders.



I think given small forwards are more of a concern to us than key forwards, it would have been more of a priority, I mean, who was that Richmond midget who just don't argued JZ and then once he got out of arm's length he could have moonwalked into an open goal, if he can't even stick a tackle against someone smaller then Houston, we have a problem.

We are going to leak goals to small forwards, we just concede too much space and we can't close the gap.

Thanks for the response, mate. I keep hearing that we are stacked for back flankers. Umm, so what?
Yeah, we may have a few. Are they up to scratch though? I'd back D'Ambrosio's kicking and decision making, ahead of most of them.
Hall is in the latter stages of his career and will need replacing, Bergman is a few years away, McDonald is a completely different player and still iffy, Goater is a big unit and will be a player, but will he just be a flanker? Perez has the tools, but lacks a bit of pace and I don't know if we can fully trust his kicking. I was speaking to a former high profile recruiter, recently. He said that he'd pick the kids that can kick, play back and pinch hit up forward. Every time. Especially at rebuilding teams, where kicking and decision making is just as important, to structure. It brings every other player into the game.

I want Dawson to make it, and think he can. FWIW.

 

[MooreDaicos]

Zurhaar going to be that de goey type player for us

I hope so, he's in my fantasy team. You guys better win the gf, I put a bet on you when I heard Clarko was taking over. Get on it, still at 151.

 

[Tas]

Thanks for the response, mate. I keep hearing that we are stacked for back flankers. Umm, so what?
Yeah, we may have a few. Are they up to scratch though? I'd back D'Ambrosio's kicking and decision making, ahead of most of them.
Hall is in the latter stages of his career and will need replacing, Bergman is a few years away, McDonald is a completely different player and still iffy, Goater is a big unit and will be a player, but will he just be a flanker? Perez has the tools, but lacks a bit of pace and I don't know if we can fully trust his kicking. I was speaking to a former high profile recruiter, recently. He said that he'd pick the kids that can kick, play back and pinch hit up forward. Every time. Especially at rebuilding teams, where kicking and decision making is just as important, to structure. It brings every other player into the game.

I mean, we stuck our toes in the water and tried to get Williams but he wanted to be a midfielder and we weren't desperate enough to lie to him like Carlton was. Our current list of non-KPP defenders are:
Turner
Young
Bonar
McDonald
Archer
Bergman
Hall
Scott*
Goater*
Perez*

* Also mids

In terms of desirable traits is high speed/high agility so you can weave through traffic combined with good kicking skills or elite kicking skills where you are able to hit targets reliably coming out of defensive 50.

Hall has the wheels/agility but his kicking is average, he can hit difficult kicks but he lacks consistency even with more basic kicks. He is also getting very old so he is at best a stop gap measure.

Goater has wheels and he is not bad for agility, he made a few memorable runs against Richmond and generally used the ball well... except that forward pass inside 50. He is a good potential for a rebounding defender, his development should be a priority.

Bergman has potential, I haven't seen enough of him to have a strong opinion but he has decent traits.

Perez has potential but he doesn't appear to be blinding fast and his kicking is good but not great. His instinct is to unload rather to bounce and run like Goater.

Goater is 190cm, Perez 188, Bergmann 188, my concern is what happens when the ball hits the ground, who has the agility/smarts to deny space and opportunity to small forwards, who has the defender instincts like keeping yourself between your man and the goal, not sag off too far, don't get caught ball watching, etc. McDonald makes these basic defensive errors too frequently but he is the co-captain, he isn't going to drop him.

I want to see more of Turner in the next practice match, I am not sure where he is going to end up, but he had some good defensive games on smaller forwards and he seems like he has more confidence this year, he used to shit his pants under pressure but so far at least he seems a lot more measured when he has the ball, has more confidence in himself. I hope he continues. If he can just make smart decision and hit the regulation passes 100% of the time and move the ball on quickly he will be more useful than a more talented player who leaks goals with basic errors.

So I think we can resolve the rebounding of the ball out of the back line, but a lot of doubt in general about containing good small forwards. We have Josh Gibson and he is working with the defenders, when he last won a flag at Hawthorn they had him, Burgoyne and Birchall as the smaller defenders and Hodge used to sometimes go back, they didn't have tiny defenders but they all had the smarts to play on smaller forwards. I hope he and Clarkson can train the smarts into players like Goater, Perez, Bergman, etc.

I am not slashing my wrists about having Dawson on the books, I have confidence in McKay and Logue, Corr has a spotty history in terms of staying on the park so I am far more enthusiastic about Dawsib coming in instead of Walker who we relied on last year, he was a great guy and was competitive but holy shit when he had the ball in hand it was anarchy.

 

[Philosophical Grendel]

Anyone have a link to a replay of this match? I’m in the States and didn’t get a chance to see it live but would love to catch more than a few highlights.

 

[terrybull]

Most everything has been covered, so rather than just repeat everyone else, here’s a few additional thoughts:

There is no better way to spend a workday than reclining under the gum trees at Arden Street with a sneaky beer. Kudos to anyone who risked third degree (sun)burn watching from the pavilion side of the ground where 90% of the play took place.

At the end of the day, we matched a strong Richmond outfit in almost every facet of the game. IMO the difference between the two teams was I50 effectiveness. Too many long bombs from us, which is mainly due to the forwards not leading into dangerous positions and partly the ball carrier not being able to find/ create good options. Curtis and WilPhil stood out in their ability to create space and time to hit a target.

Paul Curtis is a complete player. What stood out on the ground is how he reads the play better than pretty much anyone. In the air, on the ground, inside, outside and sweet footskills. He is going to be a gun.

Sheez - such a high impact player. I hope he stays in the forward line because he has that rare quality where if he gets the ball, you just know it’s a goal. Make sure you go round 1 so you can tell your grand kiddies you were there when the Sheez played his first game and began a movement that resulted in the entire universe converting to Judaism.

Sleevo, I reckon there is some merit to the criticism he has received, but he was good, including in the physical, contested situations. Promising game from him.

Ford - looked really dangerous forward and agree he is closer to a game than some might think. But folks watching at home may not have seen how he got exposed defensively a few times with his opponent running unchecked downfield to contribute to scoring chains. Ford’s offensive game was good but I reckon Clarko will be telling him he needs to be more accountable defensively.

Turner - you ask why would we play Turner round 1? I ask why wouldn’t we? Was good again today as that pressure forward.

Xerri - I’m in the “he was actually ok” camp.

McKay - He was ok, but he’s making me nervous how he’s playing like his mind is not 100% in it.

Logue & Chom - such a massive impact on our structure

Half backs:
Bergman - looks like Napoleon Dynamite.
Goater - looks like Bergman. Was good other than that one howler that resulted in a 12 point turnaround.

My personal bias is that Young is ok and Bonar is a shitmen. But I thought Bonar was serviceable and Young - well I must have been watching a different game to some, because I thought he was one of only two players who were really poor. The first two plays he got involved in he fluffed resulting in two Richmond goals. Didn’t do anything to redeem himself in my eyes after that.

JZ - took one fantastic courageous mark, but was the other really poor player. His kicking was unfortunately what we’ve come to expect. On a couple of occasions he literally gave Rioli a 20m head start. I’m not exaggerating!

Can someone please explain to me why on earth JZ is still taking kicks ins? We all know it’s going 50m down the line to a contest. What’s the point?

IMO, the order of preference for Rd1 appears to be something like: Goater > Bonar > JZ > Perez > Bergman > Young…with a TBC on Archer, Hall, Corr, Drury. Personally, I’d put JZ dead last (and it hurts me to say it), but it looks like Al Clarko may want his leadership in the early rounds. I’d be happy for Brady to use the salary cap warchest on a HBF because we have a bucket o’ shitmen right now (Goater aside).

Probably an unpopular opinion, but Cunners and Jy are better mids than Zurhaar and Zurhaar is a better forward than Cunners or Jy. So, other than fitness/ succession planning, I’m happier with CZ playing 90% forward. But I’m not a 4 time premiership coach, so wtf would I know.

Conclusion:
I knew after last year’s praccie game against Melbourne that we would suck in 2022. Clarko has delivered a 100 point turnaround in just 8 weeks. We’ll start this year much better and we’ll be better again in round 23 than in round 1.

Enjoy the ride!

How long does it take Gum trees to grow that size?

Last time I was at the Arden Street Ground was 1977.

Watching the game on TV was like watching a Discovery program on how nature eventually takes over man made things.

Made me feel old…. No ancient!!!!

 

[DuckYeah]

We will be much more competitive. The blow out 60+ losses will be a thing of the past, by this it will give players hunger to win games, im looking forward to this season, might even take work off to watch the boys.

 

[DuckYeah]

I haven’t seen CZ play in the middle so this is a blind assessment. He cannot be a “cunners” replacement. Cunners has a gift that is rare in a midfielder, he uses his hands and picks the right exit option EVERY TIME. That isnt teachable, Cam will get pinned for HTB a lot in the middle. Burst midfield option only to relieve cunners.

 

[Sphynx]

Zurhaar going to be that de goey type player for us

De Goey had 15 x 20+ possession games last year, I doubt Zurhaar has 3.

He’s had 2 in his 84 games in his career to date.

Not even close to the natural midfielder De Goey is.

 

[Themanbun]

I value power > height. Even though Prestia is 175cm he plays like a bit of a bull.
So I have no issue with wardlaw and Phillips being on the smaller side, given their power/strength potential.

This. People normally correlate strength with height because taller blokes weigh a bit more, but in an environment of professional athletes 4-5cm doesn't matter at all (and especially for power) unless their role is to mark the ball at its highest point.

Wardlaw and Phillips will be beasts, it's the way they play and they will train their physical traits to match.