Toast Mathew Stokes

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burto said:
Would have thought most should have forgiven him after his effort in the contest with Maxwell to get it to Bartel who gave to Duncan to kick the sealer from 50 in the 2011 grand final
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You would have thought that wouldn't you? From what I can see a fair few haven't. You could say the same when he withdrew himself from selection for the 2009 GF too.
 
DanA said:
Stokes has always stood up when the pressure was on him. The question is can he maintain it when the pressure is off. That's the area that has let him down.

Great game though.
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The pressure in not going to be off any one with the group we're got coming through and eventually some will wilt and be replaced that's the nature of the beast.
 
krisholio14 said:
You would have thought that wouldn't you? From what I can see a fair few haven't. You could say the same when he withdrew himself from selection for the 2009 GF too.
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Typifies the little fella doesn't it, doesn't mind if he takes a hit for the team.:thumbsu:
 

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meto said:
He's just racked up 29 possessions against a vengeful hostile Hawthorn midfield (flag Favs) and you're trying to sell him as ordinary with limited ability and skills???
He's had to stand big defenders in tight space all his career especially when Hawkins wasn't travelling so well and was ill-equiped to mark over guys 12-15cms taller.
That's why he's a tough guy, he's had to do it tough in the past, not that 29 possessions in the mid is any easy feat against high quality opposition either.
I think you'll eat those words.:cool:
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Jeez way to bite my head off for just being realistic about his talents. Last year when everyone was on his back I was one of the few who was in his corner. I was constantly arguing the main reason he was struggling was because our midfield stuggled which meant, as the forward outlet player, he just didn't get the opportunities he normally had. He came good then. Not surprisingly it was in the games where our midfield was up and running.

I'm realistic about him though. I think he's been an essential part of our success and will continue to be. But it's as an honest squad player rather than a superstar. He's not going to go out and rack up 10+ brownlow votes in a year. Realistically if he's ever in our best 15 players then we'll be fielding a pretty ordinary team. But despite not having any amazing skills or athletic ability that sets him apart he has a massive heart and will compete all day long.

He does have limited ability and he does have limited skills. But saying he's a "good-ordinary" footballer isn't a knock on him. If they had a few more like him a team like StKilda might have got 2 premierships. But I think fans are amazingly fickle when it comes to Stokesy. Before the game the majority of fans wanted him dropped for a youngster despite us missing a bunch of best 22 players. Now he's seen as an essential best 22 player based on 1 performance.

I'm just being realistic. He's a really good, honest player who will give his all. The other day he had a great game. But he's still fighting for one of those last 5 or so spots in the 22. It's deservedly his at the moment but if we're switching opinions so quickly he could easily be on the outer with the fans again by next week. Thankfully our MC are not so fickle.
 
burto said:
Would have thought most should have forgiven him after his effort in the contest with Maxwell to get it to Bartel who gave to Duncan to kick the sealer from 50 in the 2011 grand final
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You're a more confident man than I if you thought that goal was the sealer!
 
SJ said:
You're a more confident man than I if you thought that goal was the sealer!
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Yeah, I think if you look at the three goal Varcoe/Bartel/Johnson sequence in the last quarter, whichever one made you think that the win was in the bag probably defines you as a Geelong supporter. I was nearly there with the Varcoe goal, but not quite. It wasn't until Jimmy nailed his set shot that it was party time for me.
 
Footy Smarts said:
For a bloke with no amazing physical attributes and no particularly special skills he does pretty well. Realistically he'll never be better than a 15-25 player on the list but he's a lot better than your average player at that level across the league. We shouldn't underestimate the impact of having a bunch of solid, unspectacular players like Stokes, Byrnes and J Hunt has had for us since the start of our dominance. The worth of the good, ordinary player is often undersold. Really stood up today too.
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Quite often it is these players that make the difference in big games and win and dare I say Premierships. Quality teams have elite players in 1 -5, 6 -14 is their stars just short of elite and then you have the rest. It is these guys that make the difference as the elite and stars players often cancel out each others influence and the 15 - 22 make the difference between the teams.

Stokesy, Josh Hunt, and Shagga fit this bill and they have the medals to prove their importance.

GO Catters
 
Footy Smarts said:
Realistically he'll never be better than a 15-25 player on the list but he's a lot better than your average player at that level across the league.
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If he wasn't top 15 in 2008 (pre-finals), he was extremely close. People forget that he played for the Dream Team in the 150th anniversary match that year, which suggests that he was considered close to a top 50 player in the league. Averaged nearly 19 disposals and 2 goals a game, which is excellent production from a forward pocket.
 
Footy Smarts said:
Jeez way to bite my head off for just being realistic about his talents. Last year when everyone was on his back I was one of the few who was in his corner. I was constantly arguing the main reason he was struggling was because our midfield stuggled which meant, as the forward outlet player, he just didn't get the opportunities he normally had. He came good then. Not surprisingly it was in the games where our midfield was up and running.

I'm realistic about him though. I think he's been an essential part of our success and will continue to be. But it's as an honest squad player rather than a superstar. He's not going to go out and rack up 10+ brownlow votes in a year. Realistically if he's ever in our best 15 players then we'll be fielding a pretty ordinary team. But despite not having any amazing skills or athletic ability that sets him apart he has a massive heart and will compete all day long.

He does have limited ability and he does have limited skills. But saying he's a "good-ordinary" footballer isn't a knock on him. If they had a few more like him a team like StKilda might have got 2 premierships. But I think fans are amazingly fickle when it comes to Stokesy. Before the game the majority of fans wanted him dropped for a youngster despite us missing a bunch of best 22 players. Now he's seen as an essential best 22 player based on 1 performance.

I'm just being realistic. He's a really good, honest player who will give his all. The other day he had a great game. But he's still fighting for one of those last 5 or so spots in the 22. It's deservedly his at the moment but if we're switching opinions so quickly he could easily be on the outer with the fans again by next week. Thankfully our MC are not so fickle.
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Sorry!....did come on a bit strong there, just reckon he'll light up in the middle given his chance.
Peace Bro.
 
Ninty said:
he has been solid for us the last few years. I have never understood why he's so underrated on this board. I am glad that this thread exists after his game yesterday though.
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Definitely not just on this board. The community on my Facebook page have always been the same. I didn't have him in my best 22 which I posted pre season.

I think next season the likes of Murdoch, Smedts and Motlop will be all be first choice best 22 selections ahead of him, but at this stage it's his spot to lose. Brilliant performance on Monday.
 
I dont know why, but I always like to see Stokes in the team. He is one of those players who, on paper, seems to be continually under a bit of a threat.But he is smart ,and brings something into the game when he plays.
Even so,I was beginning to doubt his usefulness, but great to see his game against the Hawks.
Kicking needs a bit of work.
 
What a game (or half) from Stoksy. He looked pi***d when they would show the bench and he wasn't playing. He won't be getting dropped any time soon. Not sure what his efficiency was in the end but it was good.

Great game by him
 

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So good today. He should have started on the field, but what an impact he had coming on..
 
And so begins the eternal conundrum: is what Stokesy was able to produce today exactly what you'd love to get from your sub, or is it an indictment that he shouldn't have been wearing the vest in the first place? At the moment, I'm willing to look at it, the Brown sub (pretty ballsy, whatever you thought of Brown's game) and Stokesy's game in general as masterstrokes.
 
MC Extra Dollop said:
And so begins the eternal conundrum: is what Stokesy was able to produce today exactly what you'd love to get from your sub, or is it an indictment that he shouldn't have been wearing the vest in the first place? At the moment, I'm willing to look at it, the Brown sub and Stokesy's game in general as masterstrokes.
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Yeah it's a tough one. Think it's fair to say he won't be sub next week. He was brilliant.
 
MC Extra Dollop said:
At the moment, I'm willing to look at it, the Brown sub (pretty ballsy, whatever you thought of Brown's game) and Stokesy's game in general as masterstrokes.
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I reckon the sub was a rage sub on Scott's part rather than deliberately thought out.

There is certainly value in having a player that can come on and have an impact (Stokes, Duncan, Christensen have all done that in the past) rather than having the last bloke picked as the sub (e.g. GHS last week, and guys like Motlop and Smedts in the past that struggle to pick up the speed of the game when thrown in at crunch time).
 
Stokes actually makes a perfect sub. He has great ball finding ability but because of his lack of pace, struggles with the speed at the start of games. Thats why you see him make errors early on, he is usually rushed for time. When the heat cools off, you see how effective and damaging he can be.
 
Smashed us today, called it at 3/4 time that we needed to hard tag Chappy and a lesser extent Stokes and I think I was proven right. Gun today, hope he can continue that form up next week and beyond.
 
hbk_aus said:
Yeah it's a tough one. Think it's fair to say he won't be sub next week. He was brilliant.
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No chance. They're obviously rotating it with the six day breaks. If it was based on production, he wouldn't have even been in the discussion this week. But I think his performance this week should at least remove some of this ridiculous stigma attached to that vest. No-one should be above it. They have a role to play and Stokes set the example of how to do it.
 
MC Extra Dollop said:
And so begins the eternal conundrum: is what Stokesy was able to produce today exactly what you'd love to get from your sub, or is it an indictment that he shouldn't have been wearing the vest in the first place? At the moment, I'm willing to look at it, the Brown sub (pretty ballsy, whatever you thought of Brown's game) and Stokesy's game in general as masterstrokes.
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I can only call the decision to play Stokes as a sub a total masterstroke. Coaches would absolutely drool about getting that kind if impact in the second half.

He'll start next week and maybe Duncan or Caddy or Christensen will take their turn.
 

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Toast Mathew Stokes

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