Coach Men's Senior Coach: Brad Scott

[katana]

You can make arguments about picking this bloke over that bloke but at the end of the day my view is there are maybe 8 to 10 spots in the best 22 that need to change before we are a side that plays consistent top 4 style footy. Brad may be making a few selection mistakes but in reality we are simply sorting through the chaff to find out what is worth keeping.

are we? what chaff have we sorted this season? he plays the same set of players as the beginning of the year when fit...

 

[Old Campaigner]

are we? what chaff have we sorted this season? he plays the same set of players as the beginning of the year when fit...

Who else has he got available to play? It takes years to fully turn a list over, and then a couple more years to turn over the new players who aren't up to it.

We've seen what appears to be genuine cultural change in the space of a couple of years but that only gets you so far.

 

[ant555]

are we? what chaff have we sorted this season? he plays the same set of players as the beginning of the year when fit...

Players will go at the end of the season . He has backed in a few senior players. Some that he should. Others that you can make an argument to say he should not be. The season is at an interesting stage on this front as up to now they have been winning games most weeks. I suspect he will keep backing a few of the older players as they will still see themselves in the hunt. Is it the right thing long term ? maybe . Maybe not. The balance can be hard to find over the season. Given we do not know all the internal goings on it is hard to have a true opinion / view of the selection . Personally I still think they are sorting through the older heads which they need to do. Will they make all the right decisions. I doubt that very much . There will be players stay who should be moved on. They will make mistakes. This is actually year one of building the new system and it is crawl before you walk and run. That is why there has been nothing from inside the club other than building a new professional system that sets the club up going forward. The end result could be 3 years . 5 years or 10 years under a different coach but it has to be done. Selection right now is not just based on what you do on the weekend. What you are doing on the training track and in preparation is also a factor right now. This is not ideal for supporters wanting us to be better than the last 20 years or wanting to see changes in the side but it is the reality the club is in right now.

 

[Zephyr Effekt]

The season is at an interesting stage on this front as up to now they have been winning games most weeks. I suspect he will keep backing a few of the older players as they will still see themselves in the hunt.

The unfortunate consequences of a soft fixture.

 

[DapperDon]

I know it's round 1 and half time, but this guy never changes his spots. Same stuff at North that made him poor is still happening now.

Gonna say it, he isn't winning us a premiership, not even with his 8 years.

Wrote this in round 1, nit much has happened that has changed my mind.

The guy is so pig headed that he wont even change up his 22 with heavy rain.

 

[andleanback]

Agree. Too many supporters go into meltdown but it is their own unrealistic expectation causing it. Strat the year saying we will win 8 games. Get excited and start plotting the path to finals when we win a few and then meltdown when last night happens. No thought around the fact we still need some decent rebuilding in parts of the list and it may well take 3 to 5 more years to do it.

Yep we are still years away from being a team that can actually compete for a flag. We win a few games and supporters start to forget where this team is actually at (added in the media clickbait to generate bullshit content - eg Dixon saying we are a lock for top 4)

Reality is there is still some many spots that need fixed before this team is ready, some through list turnover and some through the young kids taking the next step and being consistent contributors week on week, as we’ve seen Durham and Caldwell take that step this year. We need the likes of Perkins, cox, jones etc to take that step aswell.

 

[jdstorm]

Scott says he picks his team like this. Starts with first selected player then puts them in their best spot.

I think he believes it but it gets tricky when his preferred players are holding better players or better fits out of their spots.

See: Backline. Since Reid went down Ridley had been playing as KPD2 despite clearly being a top 3 player in the team and having his best position as 3rd Def

Hayes has been in the VFL 2 years has had no health issues and has been a consistently good performer deserving of a spot.

Structurally the team can only carry 1 of Lav/Heppell as both are slow medium defenders with pretty good positioning.

Wasn’t an issue with Ridley out but with Ridley back is an issue.

There’s similar issues all across the ground . That is just starting to become more apparent with everyone back.

 

[ant555]

Scott says he picks his team like this. Starts with first selected player then puts them in their best spot.

I think he believes it but it gets tricky when his preferred players are holding better players or better fits out of their spots.

See: Backline. Since Reid went down Ridley had been playing as KPD2 despite clearly being a top 3 player in the team and having his best position as 3rd Def

Hayes has been in the VFL 2 years has had no health issues and has been a consistently good performer deserving of a spot.

Structurally the team can only carry 1 of Lav/Heppell as both are slow medium defenders with pretty good positioning.

Wasn’t an issue with Ridley out but with Ridley back is an issue.

There’s similar issues all across the ground . That is just starting to become more apparent with everyone back.

Until recently we have been winning so you can not really blame him for sticking with the players who are winning games. He is a guy who backs senior players but he does throw young guys into the mix even if there are a few that look like they should get a look in as well.
I agree that Laverde and Heppell are not long term options. You can throw Kelly in that boat as well. However when you are building something to change the culture of the club the 120% effort warriors are not pushed aside in the same way that they would be if you already have a successful system.
Hayes is interesting. Has played some good VFL footy but he ended up down the order a bit pre season in the match sim and you have to look at who he is playing against in the VFL.

 

[The Devils Advocate]

Double ruck needs to stop. Especially in the wet.

 

[jdstorm]

Until recently we have been winning so you can not really blame him for sticking with the players who are winning games. He is a guy who backs senior players but he does throw young guys into the mix even if there are a few that look like they should get a look in as well.
I agree that Laverde and Heppell are not long term options. You can throw Kelly in that boat as well. However when you are building something to change the culture of the club the 120% effort warriors are not pushed aside in the same way that they would be if you already have a successful system.
Hayes is interesting. Has played some good VFL footy but he ended up down the order a bit pre season in the match sim and you have to look at who he is playing against in the VFL.

Until recently we have been winning so you can not really blame him for sticking with the players who are winning games. He is a guy who backs senior players but he does throw young guys into the mix even if there are a few that look like they should get a look in as well.
I agree that Laverde and Heppell are not long term options. You can throw Kelly in that boat as well. However when you are building something to change the culture of the club the 120% effort warriors are not pushed aside in the same way that they would be if you already have a successful system.
Hayes is interesting. Has played some good VFL footy but he ended up down the order a bit pre season in the match sim and you have to look at who he is playing against in the VFL.

For me it’s not about planning for the future. I tend to think at this stage the best way to build culture is play the best team. Build a culture of accountability/selection pressure. It’s the list managers job to manage the age profile/talent level.

While I completely agree with you about effort being a key criteria for team selection. I think what gets lost is that the young guys are also trying 100% and there’s real value in having an enthusiastic list.

When it comes to vets vs youth I think different coaches value different things. Often players will have a similar impact but the veteran will be relatively mistake free while the younger player will do more impactful things but also make more mistakes. Who knows plays says more about the coaches tolerance for risk more than anything else.

A good example of this is Harry Jones playing wing vs Jake Kelly. Kelly has been a decent winger this season. Big tank usually in the right position. Won’t hurt you much. Won’t help you much.

Last night vs Geelong Jones was great in moments especially his marking. He was also often badly out of position.

Personally I think playing minimally productive or neutrally productive vets in prioritised roles is a great way to demoralise a list. If these vets have self awareness about their careers and roles they should be able to accept the role required of them. Even if that’s part time AFL part time VFL

 

[nipst@r]

Doesn't he? Caddy was probably a little stiff to miss this week but there's no youth in the 2s really screaming to be picked. Every time he's given Tsatas a game it's been painfully obvious he needs to spend time at the lower level working on his craft.

Roberts was killing it earlier in the year. Hayes had form to warrant replacing laverde early. Byran form could have warranted 1 or two more games when goldy started to struggle.

I get they are not best 22 yet but the gaps isn't that big if players are struggling anyway.

When you have Jake kelly, heppel, laverde and a tired Goldstein play every game available I think you can find a way to get a few games into youth.

All of the above have either played really sore/tired or horribly out of form and we have carried them through for a few weeks at different stages this year. If we do nothing this year, I'd rather play more players with potential of winning finals as opposed to gifting limited average afl players 20 plus games for the year.

 

[ant555]

For me it’s not about planning for the future. I tend to think at this stage the best way to build culture is play the best team. Build a culture of accountability/selection pressure. It’s the list managers job to manage the age profile/talent level.

While I completely agree with you about effort being a key criteria for team selection. I think what gets lost is that the young guys are also trying 100% and there’s real value in having an enthusiastic list.

When it comes to vets vs youth I think different coaches value different things. Often players will have a similar impact but the veteran will be relatively mistake free while the younger player will do more impactful things but also make more mistakes. Who knows plays says more about the coaches tolerance for risk more than anything else.

A good example of this is Harry Jones playing wing vs Jake Kelly. Kelly has been a decent winger this season. Big tank usually in the right position. Won’t hurt you much. Won’t help you much.

Last night vs Geelong Jones was great in moments especially his marking. He was also often badly out of position.

Personally I think playing minimally productive or neutrally productive vets in prioritised roles is a great way to demoralise a list. If these vets have self awareness about their careers and roles they should be able to accept the role required of them. Even if that’s part time AFL part time VFL

The trouble with your first line is it simply does not always work that way . The best team on paper is not always the guys who are doing everything off field as well and that is where it starts.

Then you mention the Jones example which is great. It shows they are working on something else but you can not do too much of that or you lose total balance in the side. How much of playing say Jones / Davey / Tsatas / Roberts can you take into the side without being worse than we where .
There is a fine balance in all of this and he will get some of it wrong. The thing is we are at ground zero here. They have to work with the veterans as much as the youth.
The sides that have won flags have done it off the back of using both in their development.
I have to ask and I am not being a smart ass here but have you had serious involvement in coaching ?
My experience is chopping too many old warriors actually is counter productive. Even more so when you have been winning games.
It is not like he has not given young blokes priority roles. Cox has been given AFL games to learn the wing. Perkins the same to learn midfield. He threw Durham into the midfield this year. Caldwell has been allowed to extend his time in the midfield this year. Although most do not like it he has played Martin in a development role at half back to expand his footy.
And the kicker here is we do not know 100% what they are working on behind the scenes and nor do we know 100% the likes of Roberts and Hayes have been ticking this off 100%.
I am not saying Scott is getting it all right. He is not. In an ideal world Heppell is retired. Kelly is gone and we are moving on. I am just not going to complain too much when the coach has stuck with the guys who have made it happen so far. And I mean so far. If we are losing badly most weeks from here then I am all for a little more change.

 

[nipst@r]

Got two more weeks but if we struggle then let's see a bit more of what hayes, byran, roberts, caddy and tsatas have in the final part of the year.

 

[ant555]

Roberts was killing it earlier in the year. Hayes had form to warrant replacing laverde early. Byran form could have warranted 1 or two more games when goldy started to struggle.

I get they are not best 22 yet but the gaps isn't that big if players are struggling anyway.

When you have Jake kelly, heppel, laverde and a tired Goldstein play every game available I think you can find a way to get a few games into youth.

All of the above have either played really sore/tired or horribly out of form and we have carried them through for a few weeks at different stages this year. If we do nothing this year, I'd rather play more players with potential of winning finals as opposed to gifting limited average afl players 20 plus games for the year.

Roberts was killing it one way. The knock on him when he was drafted was his defensive running and I know that is what they are working on.

 

[Old Campaigner]

Roberts was killing it earlier in the year. Hayes had form to warrant replacing laverde early. Byran form could have warranted 1 or two more games when goldy started to struggle.

I get they are not best 22 yet but the gaps isn't that big if players are struggling anyway.

When you have Jake kelly, heppel, laverde and a tired Goldstein play every game available I think you can find a way to get a few games into youth.

All of the above have either played really sore/tired or horribly out of form and we have carried them through for a few weeks at different stages this year. We do nothing this year I'd rather play more players with potential of winning finals as opposed to gifting limited average afl players 20 plus games for the year.

Bryan struggled in his game in the 1s and the consensus was get him back in the VFL.

Hayes has been good and maybe a little unlucky but I get why the coach prefers Laverde - his defensive efforts are absolutely unconditional and exactly the sort of thing the coach wants from the players.

Roberts has been good at times but I’d probably want to see greater consistency and he might be a bit off the pace fitness wise.

 

[ant555]

It is interesting that there are complaints about veterans and their output in the side when some of the issues are stemming from playing younger blokes in new positions.

 

[Old Campaigner]

It is interesting that there are complaints about veterans and their output in the side when some of the issues are stemming from playing younger blokes in new positions.

It’s better to be young than good

 

[yodellinhank]

It’s better to be young than good

Who's good? Show them to me.

 

[ant555]

Who's good? Show them to me.

we have not got them yet

 

[bombreys]

It is interesting that there are complaints about veterans and their output in the side when some of the issues are stemming from playing younger blokes in new positions.

there’s been complaints for both, hasn’t there? For me, Menzie and Perkins should be dropped. Kelly should come back through the VFL. Lav keeps his spot because of how good he was vs WCE, but if he plays like he did last night against the Pies I’d be dropping him next week too.

Just hold them all to the same standards, forget age and forget the past. We’re supposed to be here to win games of footy

 

[ant555]

there’s been complaints for both, hasn’t there? For me, Menzie and Perkins should be dropped. Kelly should come back through the VFL. Lav keeps his spot because of how good he was vs WCE, but if he plays like he did last night against the Pies I’d be dropping him next week too.

Just hold them all to the same standards, forget age and forget the past. We’re supposed to be here to win games of footy

Agree they should be held to the same standards but we do not know the behind the scenes standards are. How well they are pushing things in preparation . How they are performing what the coach wants to see in match sim and exactly what sort of program they are on as far as physical development goes. I get some info from training and I go every now and then but we are basing our opinions on seeing maybe 60% of the picture.
On top of that Merrett as captain is driving the standards as much as the coach so there is his input that we do not know.
This is not a normal situation. Scott has been hired to build a professional system that the review deemed was not there and what Scott and Vozzo saw was not there last season. As strange as it sounds it is not 100% based on what happens on the weekend and players who may well not be here in 2 years are getting games because they will try and play the defensive set ups that need to become simply routine.
Not saying it’s wrong to question some of the selections. They will not get them all right and there are some that are borderline as far as playing the structure v ability to have an input on the field.

 

[CBombers17]

Very interesting time for Brad and the team. He won't be happy with the lack.of application in the last quarter and we have real form in falling away in the season. Add to that some poor team selection and some questions are being asked of Brad for the first time this year.

How we respond this week (and the next few weeks) will tell us a lot about our trajectory as a team and also reflect what Scott's learnt over the journey as a coach now in charge of his second club.

 

[jdstorm]

The trouble with your first line is it simply does not always work that way . The best team on paper is not always the guys who are doing everything off field as well and that is where it starts.

Then you mention the Jones example which is great. It shows they are working on something else but you can not do too much of that or you lose total balance in the side. How much of playing say Jones / Davey / Tsatas / Roberts can you take into the side without being worse than we where .
There is a fine balance in all of this and he will get some of it wrong. The thing is we are at ground zero here. They have to work with the veterans as much as the youth.
The sides that have won flags have done it off the back of using both in their development.
I have to ask and I am not being a smart ass here but have you had serious involvement in coaching ?
My experience is chopping too many old warriors actually is counter productive. Even more so when you have been winning games.
It is not like he has not given young blokes priority roles. Cox has been given AFL games to learn the wing. Perkins the same to learn midfield. He threw Durham into the midfield this year. Caldwell has been allowed to extend his time in the midfield this year. Although most do not like it he has played Martin in a development role at half back to expand his footy.
And the kicker here is we do not know 100% what they are working on behind the scenes and nor do we know 100% the likes of Roberts and Hayes have been ticking this off 100%.
I am not saying Scott is getting it all right. He is not. In an ideal world Heppell is retired. Kelly is gone and we are moving on. I am just not going to complain too much when the coach has stuck with the guys who have made it happen so far. And I mean so far. If we are losing badly most weeks from here then I am all for a little more change.

I agree with most of what you said. It’s a tricky balance to maintain for sure.

As far as my “sports coaching” experience. It’s Zero. I’m not enough of a people person, and for whatever reason really struggle to connect with people who have an “athlete” personality. I have had other leadership roles in the past in unrelated fields and one of my talents is that I’m great at analysing and optimising systems/workflows.

That’s why personally I’m more interested in process and development and optimisation vs Did natural variance lead to a win/loss

Anyway back to footy talk.

I actually have probably a more positive view of Hepp/Kelly than you do. They have been good fringe AFL players this season and I’m glad that they are on the list.

I agree that you want vets to maintain structure and then float in a few learning players who bring energy/enthusiasm.

Where I bristle is the idea that a “Warrior” has more value than a rookie just because they are popular with the group, try hard and make less glaring mistakes.
After the deep cuts last offseason I expect every player (aside from Sheil) has a good attitude, and could deserve opportunity based on effort.

As far as how many young players can be fit in. I think it depends on the players and roles. Some roles are easier than others and are a better fit for developing players. Some roles are more Load Bearing than others.

See KPD2/3, HB, Wing, 3rd tall forward, tagger, Pressure forward being more forgiving

This is part of my issue with this current side. It’s that quite a few of the vets are skating by being largely unimpactful in non loadbearing roles.

 

[justlookingaround]

Predictably measured and diplomatic takes on 360 tonight. He is a very impressive speaker.

 

[Vander18]

So apparently AFL clarified with Scott that the Clarke, Draper and Menzie decisions were mistakes. But Ridley and Stewart ones were ticked off.

I thought the Ridley one was Ok - it was a perfect tackle and sometimes that has to be rewarded. He had an arm free but the tackle was too good and he couldn’t dispose.

Apparently Stewart had no prior so incorrect disposal not a factor. (1) He absolutely did have prior and (2) since when does not having prior mean you can just drop the footy in a tackle and not get penalised? A bewildering explanation.