Merged Trade/Delistings threads

[candy man]

Re: The absolute untouchables at EFC who you wouldn't dream of using in a trade deal come years end.

Fiora traded as part of package. SK gave up Heath Black.
Verdict : St Kilda ahead

Birss and M Gardiner traded as part of package for pick 43 (Tim Houlihan WCE yet to play a game)
Verdict : St Kilda ahead

Schneider & Dempster traded for pick 26 (Brett Meredith Syd yet to play a game)
Verdict : Could be almost highway robbery

King and C Gardiner traded for pick 90 (not used)
Verdict : St Kilda ahead

St Kilda have done very well considering they have given up basically nothing.

cant see how much st kilda have gained in this respect.
marginally in front with the fiora trade, honestly hes no good tho do u rate him?
birss & gardiner have played a hand full of games and for what return other than the club forking out bigger pay salaries than what they wouldve payed that young bloke, they have both been useless.
agree with the last two, cost them nothing so worth the punt. all of them are reasonable players also!

i know its not a st kilda forum but for interests and arguments sake i disagree its cost them nothing and also that they have done well, schneiders the only regualr senior player of any substance and the others in the VFL are no better than their opposing traded players yet to play a game!!!

 

[Sigmund]

Re: The absolute untouchables at EFC who you wouldn't dream of using in a trade deal come years end.

All the players from the 06 & 07 draft. Sammy, Paddy and Neagle (So...All the people from the 05 draft...) Spike, Lucas, Lloyd, Fletch, Hille,Stants,Winders.

That was off the top of my head so I've missed some.

Spike- not sure what Winders has really done to deserve mention on this list?

 

[THOMO_31]

Re: The absolute untouchables at EFC who you wouldn't dream of using in a trade deal come years end.

Fiora traded as part of package. SK gave up Heath Black.
Verdict : St Kilda ahead

Birss and M Gardiner traded as part of package for pick 43 (Tim Houlihan WCE yet to play a game)
Verdict : St Kilda ahead

Schneider & Dempster traded for pick 26 (Brett Meredith Syd yet to play a game)
Verdict : Could be almost highway robbery

King and C Gardiner traded for pick 90 (not used)
Verdict : St Kilda ahead

St Kilda have done very well considering they have given up basically nothing.

has any of them really helped them i rekon schneider and king . but the rest i no they didnt give up anyone but all they did was top up and its gettin them no where

 

[dave_27]

Re: The absolute untouchables at EFC who you wouldn't dream of using in a trade deal come years end.

St Kilda have done very well considering they have given up basically nothing.

Reminds me of the Murphy, Alvey, Allan trades and the Camporeale, Zantuck, Heffernan PSD "freebies".

Gives me a shudder just thinking of that recruiting. (well murphy was good for a season)

 

[Spikey]

Re: The absolute untouchables at EFC who you wouldn't dream of using in a trade deal come years end.

Spike- not sure what Winders has really done to deserve mention on this list?

It was him or Lovett. I like Winders better >_>
Also, Throw Jobe onto my list as well. Knew I would forget someone >_<

 

[angus6]

Re: The absolute untouchables at EFC who you wouldn't dream of using in a trade deal come years end.

The players i would be looking to trade/delist over the next two years
dyson, johns, jj, natrat, pev, rama, slatts and welsh

others players deserve atleast two more seasons to prove themselves. the club is atleast 3 - 5 years away from playing finals so the next two years would only seems fair.

If anyone believes that we can trade them for high picks or for better players is wrong. those days are over. and you cant just go a slash the list by about 8-10 players in the one year. So give those other young players two more seasons to show something.

lovett is the interesting one. he can burn one week and be lazy the next. needs to go back to the player he was when he first started his career chasing and tackling. Would prefer that over the odd flashy goal.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Re: The absolute untouchables at EFC who you wouldn't dream of using in a trade deal come years end.

If West Coast had pick 2 in this upcoming draft and offered it to us for Gumbleton, would anyone here bite ?

We'd definately CONSIDER it, but that is all I'd say. It would get us Daniel Rich and say we get the 3rd pick by result of our side being crap this year, we'd get Tom Swift AND/OR Hurely with that pick. I'd consider it, but still I'd rather keep Gumbleton and miss out on Rich, as I do believe he is something special. Remember guys NICK RIEWOLT was injured a lot and a lot similar injuries to Gumbleton early on.

 

[Shane Hird]

Re: The absolute untouchables at EFC who you wouldn't dream of using in a trade deal come years end.

Picture this...Daniel Kerr or Joel Corey somehow,for what ever reason,become detached from their clubs and seek out deals with other clubs. Of course we would be right in there offering a deal to WC or Geelong and some clever bargining would be required.

We would have to hand over a prime rib of a player along with some quality lamb chops.

Chops being players like Slattery,NLM,Dyson,Johns,Winderlich,Mcphee.

Gumbleton is not prime rib to me. He's totally unproven at this stage. I wouldn't want to lose him,and I'd prefer to look at many others before him.

But I believe that we have to trade for an experienced MF'er come years end. One who will cost a packet to get. The Stanton,Watson,Winderlich,Dyson,Nash combination operating in two years time will never be close to a Bartel,Ling,Corey,Kelly,Ablett one.

We need to bite the bullet and go for a star MF. Lure him with riches that EFC can afford.

If we lose a Watson,Gumbleton,Dyson and a 3rd rd rd draft pick for such a player...I can handle that.

 

[The_Young_Gun]

Re: The absolute untouchables at EFC who you wouldn't dream of using in a trade deal come years end.

We'd definately CONSIDER it, but that is all I'd say. It would get us Daniel Rich and say we get the 3rd pick by result of our side being crap this year, we'd get Tom Swift AND/OR Hurely with that pick. I'd consider it, but still I'd rather keep Gumbleton and miss out on Rich, as I do believe he is something special. Remember guys NICK RIEWOLT was injured a lot and a lot similar injuries to Gumbleton early on.

If I hear that name again I'm gonna crack!!

Yes, I get he's good, but people are going to far by suggesting that we should build our club around this one player who hasn't even been drafted yet, and there's not a great chance that we'll even get that 2nd or 3rd pick and there's a chance that the team that does get that pick that they won't even bother responding to a trade deal including a top 5 pick deal. (Apart from Carlton).

It's stupid how we talk about draft picks in the middle of the season, unless we are obviously Tanking, which I doubt ATM, and we always jump on our BandWagons of stupidity and say stuff like above.

This discussion should wait till the end of the year at least, so that we can make comments that will be Intelligent enough after the TAC cup and the U18's championships, where we can pick up info on these players which will be legit and not just out of the blue bullcrap.

 

[Jono B]

Re: The absolute untouchables at EFC who you wouldn't dream of using in a trade deal come years end.

Picture this...Daniel Kerr or Joel Corey somehow,for what ever reason,become detached from their clubs and seek out deals with other clubs. Of course we would be right in there offering a deal to WC or Geelong and some clever bargining would be required.

We would have to hand over a prime rib of a player along with some quality lamb chops.

Chops being players like Slattery,NLM,Dyson,Johns,Winderlich,Mcphee.

Gumbleton is not prime rib to me. He's totally unproven at this stage. I wouldn't want to lose him,and I'd prefer to look at many others before him.

But I believe that we have to trade for an experienced MF'er come years end. One who will cost a packet to get. The Stanton,Watson,Winderlich,Dyson,Nash combination operating in two years time will never be close to a Bartel,Ling,Corey,Kelly,Ablett one.

We need to bite the bullet and go for a star MF. Lure him with riches that EFC can afford.

If we lose a Watson,Gumbleton,Dyson and a 3rd rd rd draft pick for such a player...I can handle that.

Even with all their stars Mark Thompson still states that Cam Mooney is the most important player for the structure of his team. West Coast didn't lose a game in 2006 when Hansen played and he is crap. Having a slightly better midfield is not going to save us if we have a gap across half forward.

Madness.

 

[Shane Hird]

Re: The absolute untouchables at EFC who you wouldn't dream of using in a trade deal come years end.

Even with all their stars Mark Thompson still states that Cam Mooney is the most important player for the structure of his team. West Coast didn't lose a game in 2006 when Hansen played and he is crap. Having a slightly better midfield is not going to save us if we have a gap across half forward.

Madness.

It all starts in the middle.....

 

[wazzabp]

Re: We must draft Ben Cousins

I disagree completely. I would not like Cousins playing for the club. Just my opinion... No way.

I'm with you. We got rid of blokes who weren't fair dinkum and with questionable behaviour, so why go back to these clown types? And his age would go against any youth policy we have introduced.
A big NO from me.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Re: The absolute untouchables at EFC who you wouldn't dream of using in a trade deal come years end.

What is your point? He is still inconsistent, he has been on our list for a while now and is really never going to be a superstar

You did say Lovett is an exception for players under 24 I was just informing you he wasn't under 24

 

[jiphoc]

Re: We must draft Ben Cousins

Cousins is a champion and I can assure you if Essendon get the chance will grab him without a doubt. With him in your side it will decrease the time it will take you to become a premiership contending side dramatically.

 

[Merv]

Re: We must draft Ben Cousins

Cousins is a champion and I can assure you if Essendon get the chance will grab him without a doubt. With him in your side it will decrease the time it will take you to become a premiership contending side dramatically.

How so?

I highly doubt Knights would be interested, so please assure me why he would take him "without a doubt"...

 

[BigAl3001]

Re: The absolute untouchables at EFC who you wouldn't dream of using in a trade deal come years end.

hey man,

we're in the bottom 4

anyone & everyone can be trade bait.

First of all let me say that is it about time the EFC realised that the quality on this list is inferior to the majority of sides in the AFL and that the time has come to inject some A-Grade talent for the long term.
Harry Hindsight suggests the Hawthorn model is the way to go and for EFC the similarities to where the hawks were in 2004 is amazing. All our best players were the wrong side of 28 and if the club was to contend some painful decisions had to be made. The club did this in two ways. Draft the best KPP in the land over more than one draft. It is a little known fact that the hawks drafted Dowler in 2005 and Thorp in 2006 as KPP players. Secondly, they traded good players for more picks that they were able to use to pick up “soldiers” or mid-field types like Lewis, Birchall and Ellis. The trick for you guys is too find the real value on your list that can be traded to other clubs for the long term. The type of players that should be traded are those that are past there best or not likely to improve. Prime candidates are McPhee, Hille, Laycock, Welsh, McVeigh, Lovett, Lovett-Murray, Nash, Watson and Johns. The best window for these trades may be when the new Gold Coast team comes in. You may need to give up 3 of these for a Top 10 pick.
They key is not too fall into the trap of over-rating your list. It is the club you follow; the players are only pawns that represent the club at any point in time.

 

[StealthBomber]

Re: We must draft Ben Cousins

Guys, a quote taken from Matthew Knights on EFC:

"If the opportunity came up for us to bring a player with a bit more maturity into our football club that could really help our list then we would look at it, it would be remiss of us not to, but it would be at the end of the year. It is not on our agenda right now.”

Would this suggest our coach may consider adding Ben Cousins to our list assuming that he may be the best available mature age player at years end? Im sure it's providing all correct avenues are taken to ensure Ben has completed his rehabilitation and is genuine about returning to football.

http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/news.asp?nid=5772

 

[BigAl3001]

Re: The absolute untouchables at EFC who you wouldn't dream of using in a trade deal come years end.

Reminds me of the Murphy, Alvey, Allan trades and the Camporeale, Zantuck, Heffernan PSD "freebies".

Gives me a shudder just thinking of that recruiting. (well murphy was good for a season)

There can be only one reason to trade for re-cycled players and that is too top up your list because you think you are very close to winning a flag. Most teams that do it are delusional. e.g. Frawley/tigers after 2001. Kangaroos after 2005 and Freo after 2006 are recent examples. The saints are delusional. Better of developing young players woh haven't developed bad habits and who have a greater capacity to learn and be moulded into a game plan.

 

[Johnnyprinias]

Re: We must draft Ben Cousins

Guys, a quote taken from Matthew Knights on EFC:

"If the opportunity came up for us to bring a player with a bit more maturity into our football club that could really help our list then we would look at it, it would be remiss of us not to, but it would be at the end of the year. It is not on our agenda right now.”

Would this suggest our coach may consider adding Ben Cousins to our list assuming that he may be the best available mature age player at years end? Im sure it's providing all correct avenues are taken to ensure Ben has completed his rehabilitation and is genuine about returning to football.

http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/news.asp?nid=5772

Never assume anything. Trying to read between the lines doesnt work. The simple fact is we have to get more kids and if we can get a trade and it benefits the club then we will go for it. Dont automatically assume he is talking about cousins.

 

[StealthBomber]

Re: We must draft Ben Cousins

Never assume anything. Trying to read between the lines doesnt work. The simple fact is we have to get more kids and if we can get a trade and it benefits the club then we will go for it. Dont automatically assume he is talking about cousins.

I'm not assuming anything. Your assuming that im assuming

I'm simply stating facts. As Mathew Knights stated, he will look into drafting a mature player if the opportunity presented itself. Now having said that, in my opinion who would be a "BETTER" option to draft than Ben Cousins that can help our current list? (providing at the time he is apt to continue his career)

I did not say Matthew Knights was looking at drafting him, but may consider it as an option come years end. Im open to suggestions but I believe he would be the best available.

We all know we need to draft kids, but as Knights said, again, it would be remiss to overlook drafting a mature age player.

 

[dapto]

Re: We must draft Ben Cousins

I'm simply stating facts. As Mathew Knights stated, he will look into drafting a mature player if the opportunity presented itself. Now having said that, in my opinion who would be a "BETTER" option to draft than Ben Cousins that can help our current list? (providing at the time he is apt to continue his career)

I would just read that as Knights not wanting too many more categorical comments about the list in the media yesterday. Just a general nothing and everything statement.

Incidentally the problem with Cousins is his value may only be good for two years. Not significant enough for us unless you consider him the model to base the other midfielders game upon.

Hmmmm. I dont think anyone is holding out on Ben here. It will depend on a zillion things, mostly against.

 

[The Donners]

Re: The absolute untouchables at EFC who you wouldn't dream of using in a trade deal come years end.

If West Coast had pick 2 in this upcoming draft and offered it to us for Gumbleton, would anyone here bite ?

You'd consider it. With Daniher and Neagle set to lead our KPP in the forward line Gumbleton could be a fair trade for the best available midfielder in the draft... most people tend to say Rich so I'll go with the hordes!

I personally wouldn't want to as Gumbleton has far greater potential than the other two but I also realise what it takes to win a flag, midfield.

 

[The Donners]

Re: The absolute untouchables at EFC who you wouldn't dream of using in a trade deal come years end.

Reminds me of the Murphy, Alvey, Allan trades and the Camporeale, Zantuck, Heffernan PSD "freebies".

Gives me a shudder just thinking of that recruiting. (well murphy was good for a season)

Doddoro/predecessor and Sheedy as recruiting partners for the previous 10 years was I would believe to be the worst statistically in terms of the number of games those players drafted during that period played. Not surprising all of those players you mentioned no longer play.

I still can't believe we picked Shane Harvey at 18 in 2001 there was hardly a dud pick after that! Missed out on Steve Johnson, Jason Gram, Matt Maguire, Mark Seaby etc. Then we picked Joel Reynolds instead of picking up Campbell Brown, David Rodan (1st time we overlooked him! ), Sam Mitchell, Leigh Montagna, Ash Hansen!

There wasn't a player that we picked that didn't have a far superior player behind them, I realise you usually get a pick wrong in a draft but they got every single pick wrong! Andrew Welsh is the only player left on the list from the 2000 and 2001 drafts!!! This is why we're crap now!

 

[The Donners]

Re: The absolute untouchables at EFC who you wouldn't dream of using in a trade deal come years end.

First of all let me say that is it about time the EFC realised that the quality on this list is inferior to the majority of sides in the AFL and that the time has come to inject some A-Grade talent for the long term.
Harry Hindsight suggests the Hawthorn model is the way to go and for EFC the similarities to where the hawks were in 2004 is amazing. All our best players were the wrong side of 28 and if the club was to contend some painful decisions had to be made. The club did this in two ways. Draft the best KPP in the land over more than one draft. It is a little known fact that the hawks drafted Dowler in 2005 and Thorp in 2006 as KPP players. Secondly, they traded good players for more picks that they were able to use to pick up “soldiers” or mid-field types like Lewis, Birchall and Ellis. The trick for you guys is too find the real value on your list that can be traded to other clubs for the long term. The type of players that should be traded are those that are past there best or not likely to improve. Prime candidates are McPhee, Hille, Laycock, Welsh, McVeigh, Lovett, Lovett-Murray, Nash, Watson and Johns. The best window for these trades may be when the new Gold Coast team comes in. You may need to give up 3 of these for a Top 10 pick.
They key is not too fall into the trap of over-rating your list. It is the club you follow; the players are only pawns that represent the club at any point in time.

I agree, in particular the type in bold is the theory I live by, it doesn't make many friends on the Essendon board but so be it.

 

[Sigmund]

Re: The absolute untouchables at EFC who you wouldn't dream of using in a trade deal come years end.

First of all let me say that is it about time the EFC realised that the quality on this list is inferior to the majority of sides in the AFL and that the time has come to inject some A-Grade talent for the long term.
Harry Hindsight suggests the Hawthorn model is the way to go and for EFC the similarities to where the hawks were in 2004 is amazing. All our best players were the wrong side of 28 and if the club was to contend some painful decisions had to be made. The club did this in two ways. Draft the best KPP in the land over more than one draft. It is a little known fact that the hawks drafted Dowler in 2005 and Thorp in 2006 as KPP players. Secondly, they traded good players for more picks that they were able to use to pick up “soldiers” or mid-field types like Lewis, Birchall and Ellis. The trick for you guys is too find the real value on your list that can be traded to other clubs for the long term. The type of players that should be traded are those that are past there best or not likely to improve. Prime candidates are McPhee, Hille, Laycock, Welsh, McVeigh, Lovett, Lovett-Murray, Nash, Watson and Johns. The best window for these trades may be when the new Gold Coast team comes in. You may need to give up 3 of these for a Top 10 pick.
They key is not too fall into the trap of over-rating your list. It is the club you follow; the players are only pawns that represent the club at any point in time.

I think this is a reasonable post and probably could not have summarised it better myself. I probably agree with all these points - except for the players as pawns idea - I would hate that to be the ideology at EFC