Coach Michael Voss

[Faz 2000]

I don’t think we can afford to throw another coach on the pire. I quietly think Voss is a moron, but we knew that hiring him. He is charismatic, competitive, a leader of men, and has an impeccable record of leadership as a player. We can use that.

What I see at the moment is every player in every situation trying to figure out what to do in the moment. Second-guessing, weighing up what the game plan is vs what they see and what they can do. It’s not AFL standard, yet the individuals doing it mostly are - and some of them are so good they can succeed anyway.

We‘re a rabble, but what we desperately need is a bye, an offseason, and some tactical nous. We’re on the ropes eating punches and need to get to the corner. Then come out, use what we have, not play to our weaknesses.

And I think we have to “give up” on some players to move forward. Or at the very least challenge our own thinking, assumptions and hype.

For starters, I’d abandon Silvagni, play Cripps forward, give a combo like Cerra/Kennedy/Walsh in the guts. Rotate Doc and maybe Durds/Motlop regularly to give it something different. Give Dow a month in there. We are so horrendously one-note. We clearly need footskills into the side, so make that a list mgt priority. Try Charlie high, McKay in the goalsquare. Try Saad on a wing as a line breaker. It beggars belief that with Charlie, Harry, TDK any Carlton player anywhere on the ground shouldn’t have one of them as the bail out bomb.

We aren’t THIS bad. Or we shouldn’t be.

 

[norway blue]

Nek minnit

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[Irish BlueBagger]

I really hope we don't lose to the Bombers. At the moment they're six points ahead of us.

It's bad enough that the Pies are in flying form, but losing to Essendon really would be a case of twisting the knife.

I'm still very much of the opinion that Vossy should stay on as coach, and that we need to improve the coaching structure surrounding him.

If the board do decide to go for the nuclear option though, then there should be a few more people in the board and footballing department following Vossy out the door as well imo.

 

[norway blue]

I really hope we don't lose to the Bombers. At the moment they're six points ahead of us.

It's bad enough that the Pies are in flying form, but losing to Essendon really would be a case of twisting the knife.

I'm still very much of the opinion that Vossy should stay on as coach, and that we need to improve the coaching structure surrounding him.

If the board do decide to go for the nuclear option though, then there should be a few more people in theoother board and footballing department leaving the club with Vossy imo.

Take another swig mate. It’s like the romance. Players make coaches.



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[Irish BlueBagger]

Take another swig mate. It’s like the romance. Players make coaches.



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Players make coaches and they can break them as well. I think we need to be strong as a club though and back Vossy in imo.

 

[norway blue]

Players make coaches and they can break them as well. I think we need to be strong as a club though and back Vossy in imo.

Players make coaches..


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[The Blue Weirdo]

Take another swig mate. It’s like the romance. Players make coaches.



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The same players from early 2022 that won 10-2 and narrowly lost to Melbourne, Pies etc. to drop out of the top 8 in the last game of the season.
Except we lost no one of significance and added good new additions in the off season and haven't been missing half the preferred midfield to injuries.

The players body language and game day cohesion are shadows of what they were before the Voss gloss wore off.

 

[I AM CARLTON]

Ok here's what we know. We know when we sack a coach we get a sugar hit and the players lift for at least half a season. I'm proposing each year we sack the coach half way through the year. We will then go undefeated for the rest of that year and win the premiership.

Rinse and repeat every year and we are gonna need a few more cabinets built to hold all those premierships cup that will be flying in through the door.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Ok here's what we know. We know when we sack a coach we get a sugar hit and the players lift for at least half a season. I'm proposing each year we sack the coach half way through the year. We will then go undefeated for the rest of that year and win the premiership.

Rinse and repeat every year and we are gonna need a few more cabinets built to hold all those premierships cup that will be flying in through the door.

Most sensible idea I've seen in the entire thread make it happen

 

[Bostonian]

If we sack Voss, we will have our 4th coach in 5 years, how we'd expect any decent coach to want to have his career killed off at Carlton, I don't understand.

That's part of the issue.

We haven't hired a decent coach in that time.

 

[RedFury]

The players body language and game day cohesion are shadows of what they were before the Voss gloss wore off.

This is what I don't understand. Last year at times we looked fierce - we were playing for each other and hunting other teams. It was like every player had turned into 50% themselves, 50% Vossy in his playing days.

That has completely disappeared this year - body language, attitude, confidence all just totally shot. We look scared, indecisive, non-physical and vulnerable out there - just ripe for the kill.

If you showed footage to people who didn't know better, they wouldn't think it was the same group.

 

[bourbons]

Cannot see Voss being killed off this season no matter how bad it gets.

Id suspect he will be given the chance again to surround himself with people that make him better.

And as for players not liking him or confused by the game plan, this feels deja vu as they couldn't grasp the last 2 coaches either... I wonder if it's not the coach and it's the players not buying in. 1st time I get it, 3rd time not so much

Our players must be strange. Third coach in recent years and they still can't understand how to play. I'm over it.

Yup. Its why I'm not totally averse to the idea of blowing it up and starting again.

All this talk about the coach having lost the players, maybe its the players that have lost the coach (again).

 

[bourbons]

This is what I don't understand. Last year at times we looked fierce - we were playing for each other and hunting other teams. It was like every player had turned into 50% themselves, 50% Vossy in his playing days.

That has completely disappeared this year - body language, attitude, confidence all just totally shot. We look scared, indecisive, non-physical and vulnerable out there - just ripe for the kill.

If you showed footage to people who didn't know better, they wouldn't think it was the same group.

Mentally shattered from being in the 8 all year only to lose the last game by 1 point from 5 goals up and miss out by % would be my guess.

Unsure how else to explain literally every player on the list bar Charlie and Cerra going backwards.

 

[The Bighouse]

This is what I don't understand. Last year at times we looked fierce - we were playing for each other and hunting other teams. It was like every player had turned into 50% themselves, 50% Vossy in his playing days.

That has completely disappeared this year - body language, attitude, confidence all just totally shot. We look scared, indecisive, non-physical and vulnerable out there - just ripe for the kill.

If you showed footage to people who didn't know better, they wouldn't think it was the same group.

Vossy has said it himself, the effort has been there but when we’re butchering the fundamentals it puts the team on the back foot. We’ve lacked any ascendancy this year because we can’t kick ourselves in front of the opposition.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Yup. Its why I'm not totally averse to the idea of blowing it up and starting again.

All this talk about the coach having lost the players, maybe its the players that have lost the coach (again).

and maybe its all talk......... here

try to be a bit more positive mate, will do you good

 

[bmaurizio]

Deliberations are futile, unless Vossy’s inspires and facilitates some reasonable performances basically , brings home more wins, he’s gone,
never should have been selected as head coach, assistant fine , our internal review was a farce.
Obviously there are serious flaws in our set up, it’s time to get it right.

 

[Blue since 72]

Vossy has said it himself, the effort has been there but when we’re butchering the fundamentals it puts the team on the back foot. We’ve lacked any ascendancy this year because we can’t kick ourselves in front of the opposition.

To me that's about the players not backing themselves in and not having confidence either in themselves and/or each other. It's become a collective mindset.

They need to stop playing not to lose and are worrying far too much about the result of their actions instead of being hunters and accepting that footy ain't perfect so stop over thinking it.

Footy ain't a thinking man's game when you're out there boys it's instinctive and action based, get out of your heads and get back on the park and hunt these ****ers down.

 

[Blue By Blood]

Vossy has said it himself, the effort has been there but when we’re butchering the fundamentals it puts the team on the back foot. We’ve lacked any ascendancy this year because we can’t kick ourselves in front of the opposition.

This may be harsh but that’s Voss looking for an out to deflect the heat off the fact that the game plan is simply rubbish in its current state. It’s easy and simplistic to say it’s just skill execution that’s at fault because that conveniently makes it the players fault rather than a coaching fault. For him to admit anything else would be admitting he’s coaching poorly and he’s not going to put that extra heat on himself. If he truly thinks it’s just execution that’s the problem then he won’t be changing the game plan anytime soon. He’s going to live and die by that sword one way or the other.

The player effort is there I agree with him on that.. and the fact we stay close in games shows the talent of the list. To anyone who says the list is rubbish I completely refute that. It’s ceiling is around 4th on talent and it’s range should be 4-8. Add in the right pieces through draft and free agency/trade and start removing injury prone players that our killing our depth and that bumps our range even higher.

The truth is it lies somewhere in between though. The game plan is putrid which in turn is crushing player confidence and in general play they are making terrible decisions and skill errors from hesitation and a confusion around structure and system. At least that’s how it looks to my eye. You can see it on their faces. You can see the hesitation. It’s a hard hole to lift yourself out from as every mistake cascades those mental demons. One would hope the coaches are throwing more support around them at training to build up confidence and open the game plan up to simplify things and allow them to play their way out of the rut. That wont happen with the current game plan.

Goal kicking execution- the players simply have to be better. That’s 80% on them. Stay after training and put in the time. Have that drive and fortitude to be the absolute best. The other 20% should be on investing in goal kicking coaches and sports psychologists to get the mental resilience in check. But.. the coach should not be leaving goal kicking routine simply up to the player. He should put rules in place about snaps and distance. The players should have no doubt in their mind when they line up what kick they will be doing. If they show an inability or intelligence to work that out for themselves then the coach should mandate a rule. Leaving it up to the player to work his way out of a slump without adding layers at training to help that.. what’s that saying about doing the same thing and expecting a different result.. insanity.

 

[Blue and Blue]

This may be harsh but that’s Voss looking for an out to deflect the heat off the fact that the game plan is simply rubbish in its current state. It’s easy and simplistic to say it’s just skill execution that’s at fault because that conveniently makes it the players fault rather than a coaching fault. For him to admit anything else would be admitting he’s coaching poorly and he’s not going to put that extra heat on himself. If he truly thinks it’s just execution that’s the problem then he won’t be changing the game plan anytime soon. He’s going to live and die by that sword one way or the other.

The player effort is there I agree with him on that.. and the fact we stay close in games shows the talent of the list. To anyone who says the list is rubbish I completely refute that. It’s ceiling is around 4th on talent and it’s range should be 4-8. Add in the right pieces through draft and free agency/trade and start removing injury prone players that our killing our depth and that bumps our range even higher.

The truth is it lies somewhere in between though. The game plan is putrid which in turn is crushing player confidence and in general play they are making terrible decisions and skill errors from hesitation and a confusion around structure and system. At least that’s how it looks to my eye. You can see it on their faces. You can see the hesitation. It’s a hard hole to lift yourself out from as every mistake cascades those mental demons. One would hope the coaches are throwing more support around them at training to build up confidence and open the game plan up to simplify things and allow them to play their way out of the rut. That wont happen with the current game plan.

Goal kicking execution- the players simply have to be better. That’s 80% on them. Stay after training and put in the time. Have that drive and fortitude to be the absolute best. The other 20% should be on investing in goal kicking coaches and sports psychologists to get the mental resilience in check. But.. the coach should not be leaving goal kicking routine simply up to the player. He should put rules in place about snaps and distance. The players should have no doubt in their mind when they line up what kick they will be doing. If they show an inability or intelligence to work that out for themselves then the coach should mandate a rule. Leaving it up to the player to work his way out of a slump without adding layers at training to help that.. what’s that saying about doing the same thing and expecting a different result.. insanity.

I think its simply rubbish to say he is looking for an out. He has acknowledged it all starts and stops with him many times.
Don't makes things up to suit what your trying to say.
Now as to the rest, if they kick the goals instead of behinds the 'game plan' suddenly looks a heap better. Yes its a work in progress defensively and the attacking aspects but ultimately bad kicking is bad football. End of story.
It really is that simple.
However it is the coaching peoples job to get them to kick straight in any situation. In that its a fail.

 

[Blue By Blood]

I think its simply rubbish to say he is looking for an out. He has acknowledged it all starts and stops with him many times.
Don't makes things up to suit what your trying to say.
Now as to the rest, if they kick the goals instead of behinds the 'game plan' suddenly looks a heap better. Yes its a work in progress defensively and the attacking aspects but ultimately bad kicking is bad football. End of story.
It really is that simple.
However it is the coaching peoples job to get them to kick straight in any situation. In that its a fail.

I respect your opinion because it's always better to have an opinion than to sit on the fence, but I disagree and it's a public forum so that's ok.

It really isn't that simple. We kick those goals and win a few of those games and it papers over the cracks that the game plan really doesn't work for our list. It doesn't maximize the strengths of our stars, nor does it allow our role players to contribute meaningfully. In fact, it's actually created a situation where players now appear selfish and try to do too much. We have averaged about 60 points a game since the half way point of last year. That's not a game plan that I can get behind with the talent of this list. 60 points a game with 2 former Coleman medallist. I'll keep watching and supporting this club because I love it to death as we all do. But the game plan is the biggest problem right now and I bet probably about 75% us on here agree with that. Most former players agree with that. Most 'experts' agree with that.

Those who want us to back in Voss seem to really only want that because they don't want us to have to admit we made another mistake or have to sack another coach. I'm not too sure many Voss supporters right now could tell me how many of our players have improved since he took over. I find it alarming that most people can only name 1 maybe 2 players. That's worrying and not the sign of a coach that's coaching effectively or the sign of a coach with a game plan that is lifting players up. Anyways, we clearly have differing opinions so let's leave it at that hey.

 

[El Topo]

This is what I don't understand. Last year at times we looked fierce - we were playing for each other and hunting other teams. It was like every player had turned into 50% themselves, 50% Vossy in his playing days.

That has completely disappeared this year - body language, attitude, confidence all just totally shot. We look scared, indecisive, non-physical and vulnerable out there - just ripe for the kill.

If you showed footage to people who didn't know better, they wouldn't think it was the same group.

The fact that they didn't run out against Richmond with murder in their eyes is damning - in hindsight the first quarter of that game told us exactly how this year would pan out

 

[bmaurizio]

T
These are volatile , ambiguous times for our club surrounded by complex well entrenched issues.
As supporters we’ll provide support always for our club , let’s be positive and keep our fingers crossed that a Savior emerges from the shambles, to start positive and lasting change.

 

[Blue and Blue]

I respect your opinion because it's always better to have an opinion than to sit on the fence, but I disagree and it's a public forum so that's ok.

It really isn't that simple. We kick those goals and win a few of those games and it papers over the cracks that the game plan really doesn't work for our list. It doesn't maximize the strengths of our stars, nor does it allow our role players to contribute meaningfully. In fact, it's actually created a situation where players now appear selfish and try to do too much. We have averaged about 60 points a game since the half way point of last year. That's not a game plan that I can get behind with the talent of this list. 60 points a game with 2 former Coleman medallist. I'll keep watching and supporting this club because I love it to death as we all do. But the game plan is the biggest problem right now and I bet probably about 75% us on here agree with that. Most former players agree with that. Most 'experts' agree with that.

Those who want us to back in Voss seem to really only want that because they don't want us to have to admit we made another mistake or have to sack another coach. I'm not too sure many Voss supporters right now could tell me how many of our players have improved since he took over. I find it alarming that most people can only name 1 maybe 2 players. That's worrying and not the sign of a coach that's coaching effectively or the sign of a coach with a game plan that is lifting players up. Anyways, we clearly have differing opinions so let's leave it at that hey.

Of course as I respect yours too. But I dont believe the issue is whether to back Voss in or not and frankly thats way out of our control. The real issue is why are they letting themselves be rolled each week when they clearly can play football. Seems in the head not the tactics to me. The ruthlesness and clinical finishing that winning demands and depends upon isn't evident. Once they cross the white line it is indeed up to themselves and no coach can force a team to perform. They have to want it and want it bad.

 

[Blue By Blood]

Of course as I respect yours too. But I dont believe the issue is whether to back Voss in or not and frankly thats way out of our control. The real issue is why are they letting themselves be rolled each week when they clearly can play football. Seems in the head not the tactics to me. The ruthlesness and clinical finishing that winning demands and depends upon isn't evident. Once they cross the white line it is indeed up to themselves and no coach can force a team to perform. They have to want it and want it bad.

I don’t think though that they’re purposely going out there letting themselves get rolled each week. From my eye it does appear like we’re having a decent crack. The effort is there it’s just at times because of the turnovers we look real bad chasing tail. That gives the illusion of a lack of effort. But see that’s where my issue lies.. I don’t think all the turnovers and poor goal kicking are simply all due to poor player execution. I think it runs deeper into game plan and training session practice (and techniques/rules implemented) and that’s where you and I see things differently.

 

[bourbons]

They have to want it and want it bad.

Which they don't currently. Swans had more possessions and more tackles last week, always a good indicator that you're not ready/switched on/whatever when you lose both of those stats.

Current playing group is cooked imo, has been for awhile. They'll probably sack Voss at some stage this year, we'll get the dead cat bounce, people will say there you go it was coaching, they'll revert to type next year and we'll be back having this same conversation in 12 months.