Coach Michael Voss

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jj1978 said:
Don't think the club is really going to heed too much what supporters think (unless we drop down to 50000 members in 2024)... but the concerning thing is everyone in the AFL world from media to opposition to other supporters are seeing the same thing we are and are completely perplexed as to what's going on with selection, continued same issues with the game plan.
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And your first sentence is actually the issue

The club actively self congratulates itself on 89k members and sell out crowds.

So it bloody well should take note of what supportet sentiment is. The growth in investment by supporters via membership is due to goodwill, expectation and hope we are on the rise...

The more disingenuous they are, and the more remote they become from supporter sentiment, the drop off will start...

Can't have it both ways...



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Posted this in another thread too, but I've done a pretty big about face since the weekend, and im less on board with moving on Voss.

To be clear, I still think this is the worst coached Carlton team I have ever seen. The results are atrocious (essentially 6 straight losses with a mature and talented list in its prime) but so is the process/product: those 6 losses have all been by 20+ points, and we haven't scored 75 ourselves in any of them. Voss comes across as stubborn and defensive, and doesn't appear to have a clue how to turn things around. The game plan is woeful, the players are down on confidence and Voss also seems to be playing favourites with the players, has ruled lines through them and is spending far too much time asking htem to cover their weaknesses rather than playing to their strengths.

None of that has changed for me - I still maintain that to be the case.

However, I also think that even if the greatest coach in the world joined the club today, we would still struggle to progress, and need a much deeper cultural change. We need to start focusing on development right across the club; growing people rather than poaching them from outside. Voss is currently doing a woeful job, and so are the players AND we can't just keep throwing people out. Instead, we have to figure out how to turn things around internally, and weirdly, be able to survive terrible coaching, be able to survive some missed draft picks, loss of form for key players, etc... at least for a while, and long enough for the ship to right itself.

You see other clubs do this. Geelong's record with first round picks is horrible. Port fans have wanted Hinkley gone since day 1, and yet somehow they are playing well. Collingwood rode through Malthouse's idiosyncracies (and from what he showed at Carlton - complete lack of touch with modern footy) AND Buckley's inability to connect with the players and made grand finals with both... then lucked into Macrae and look the next powerhouse.

I think back to our own successful periods: post 1995 for example we dropped off fast and had simialr woes to now in 1998... players out of form, struggling to put the pieces together. But we rode that out, turned it around, made GF 18 months later. We were once like this... now we are constantly looking for the mext great saviour from outside to come in and fix things... Pagan, Judd, Malthouse, Pratt, Russell, Cook... the answer isn't outside, unfortunately.

Can we turn this around? Maybe not this year... although a streak like Collingwood's last year isn't totally implausible (i still think this team should be a top 4 contender so going 10-2 from here should be feasible). At a minimum, i would like to see us tweak things, find some things out and reboot towards the future, and in particular start to believe that we cna be successful, and don't need to constantly churn people tonget there.

One caveat: for Voss to get that chance, he has to offer the players the same too. Dow has to play this week, for example, and be given a genuine shot to step up (unlike last year where he twice played one match against top 4 opposition and was immediately dropped). Fogarty should get a shot too... same with any other player on the list who is playing good footy - they should get a chance to play to their strengths in the seniors and show what they go, just as Vossy gets backed in to develop too. That's probably more the deal breaker for me than a shicking game plan - you can fix twctics, but not if you don't believe in your own guys...
 
Cannot see Voss being killed off this season no matter how bad it gets.

Id suspect he will be given the chance again to surround himself with people that make him better.

And as for players not liking him or confused by the game plan, this feels deja vu as they couldn't grasp the last 2 coaches either... I wonder if it's not the coach and it's the players not buying in. 1st time I get it, 3rd time not so much
 
HereComesJuddy said:
Cannot see Voss being killed off this season no matter how bad it gets.

Id suspect he will be given the chance again to surround himself with people that make him better.

And as for players not liking him or confused by the game plan, this feels deja vu as they couldn't grasp the last 2 coaches either... I wonder if it's not the coach and it's the players not buying in. 1st time I get it, 3rd time not so much
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Those players can piss off. Bring new blood
 
Magical_EddieBetts said:
So if Vossy is safe and we are gonna change the coaches around him, do you extend his contract going into next year?
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No…
No point in looking at Vossy contract until mid 2024, not as though he’d be going anywhere…

When hired we knew he lacked tactically, but never address it sufficiently…
 

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Magical_EddieBetts said:
The noise will only get lounder especially over the preseason if results continue for the remainder of this season. Going to be a huge distraction Vossy’s contract
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You don't extend a 3 year contract to 5 1.5 or 2 and a bit years into it if you aren't 1000% happy with a coach. Not sure why you'd contemplate extending.
 
If we sack Voss, we will have our 4th coach in 5 years, how we'd expect any decent coach to want to have his career killed off at Carlton, I don't understand.
 
Magical_EddieBetts said:
I completely agree, was just asking the question. That’s why I think Vossy is in trouble
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Thats fair.

I suspect the coaches and others within the club are pointing the finger at the players. Many of the same players who have not wanted the last 2 coaches there and pushed for change.
 
btdg said:
Posted this in another thread too, but I've done a pretty big about face since the weekend, and im less on board with moving on Voss.

To be clear, I still think this is the worst coached Carlton team I have ever seen. The results are atrocious (essentially 6 straight losses with a mature and talented list in its prime) but so is the process/product: those 6 losses have all been by 20+ points, and we haven't scored 75 ourselves in any of them. Voss comes across as stubborn and defensive, and doesn't appear to have a clue how to turn things around. The game plan is woeful, the players are down on confidence and Voss also seems to be playing favourites with the players, has ruled lines through them and is spending far too much time asking htem to cover their weaknesses rather than playing to their strengths.

None of that has changed for me - I still maintain that to be the case.

However, I also think that even if the greatest coach in the world joined the club today, we would still struggle to progress, and need a much deeper cultural change. We need to start focusing on development right across the club; growing people rather than poaching them from outside. Voss is currently doing a woeful job, and so are the players AND we can't just keep throwing people out. Instead, we have to figure out how to turn things around internally, and weirdly, be able to survive terrible coaching, be able to survive some missed draft picks, loss of form for key players, etc... at least for a while, and long enough for the ship to right itself.

You see other clubs do this. Geelong's record with first round picks is horrible. Port fans have wanted Hinkley gone since day 1, and yet somehow they are playing well. Collingwood rode through Malthouse's idiosyncracies (and from what he showed at Carlton - complete lack of touch with modern footy) AND Buckley's inability to connect with the players and made grand finals with both... then lucked into Macrae and look the next powerhouse.

I think back to our own successful periods: post 1995 for example we dropped off fast and had simialr woes to now in 1998... players out of form, struggling to put the pieces together. But we rode that out, turned it around, made GF 18 months later. We were once like this... now we are constantly looking for the mext great saviour from outside to come in and fix things... Pagan, Judd, Malthouse, Pratt, Russell, Cook... the answer isn't outside, unfortunately.

Can we turn this around? Maybe not this year... although a streak like Collingwood's last year isn't totally implausible (i still think this team should be a top 4 contender so going 10-2 from here should be feasible). At a minimum, i would like to see us tweak things, find some things out and reboot towards the future, and in particular start to believe that we cna be successful, and don't need to constantly churn people tonget there.

One caveat: for Voss to get that chance, he has to offer the players the same too. Dow has to play this week, for example, and be given a genuine shot to step up (unlike last year where he twice played one match against top 4 opposition and was immediately dropped). Fogarty should get a shot too... same with any other player on the list who is playing good footy - they should get a chance to play to their strengths in the seniors and show what they go, just as Vossy gets backed in to develop too. That's probably more the deal breaker for me than a shicking game plan - you can fix twctics, but not if you don't believe in your own guys...
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Found my own stance changing quite recently to meet you half way it seems.

Coaching staff and players both need to be a whole lot better......

Carlton badly need Voss to mix the side up and change the game plan to suit the list more. Honestly as selfish as it is I'd like the game plan to change so I can maintain my own sanity. It's like he combined the worst parts of Paul Roo's, Hinkley's, Malthouses and Lyon's soul crushing footy to make the most frustrating but least exciting spectacle possible. I don't mind low scoring if your side is defending with real intensity but we've shown none of that either.

It honestly feels like I'm watching a VFL game with how we play and setup. At least Kayo is matching their stream quality so I can fully appreciate the proper VFL experience all the way over here in Perth...
 
Magical_EddieBetts said:
I think Vossy is in trouble to be honest
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Possibly, nothing Carlton surprises me anymore tbh…

IMO looking from the outside, the board to the playing group looks disjointed and on the verge of imploding…

Sayers position is becoming untenable with what’s going on in the background…

Wont be long until the board spill vultures start circling…
 
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HereComesJuddy said:
Thats fair.

I suspect the coaches and others within the club are pointing the finger at the players. Many of the same players who have not wanted the last 2 coaches there and pushed for change.
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Cook won't sack voss until he sees what all the issues are before making the call at years end. It's not the way he does things
 

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Coach Michael Voss

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