Coach Michael Voss

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Beyond Blue said:
Please tell me what you think he did that was so bad tonight?
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I've outlined it elsewhere. You're having a laugh if you think one of (or both) that coaches don't impact games or players just need to play better.

They do need to play better but as I've outlined - part of the coaches job description is place players in a position best suited to them to aid them in playing their best. That's universal for all sports. You don't ask Maxwell to bat a day and a half for a draw. You don't ask your prop forward to be a play maker you want him running straight.

In that vain I think young up forward was wrong, stubbornly wrong after kempy was getting outsized for ages. Kennedy never rotating through a clearance setup that was getting demolished. Cerra too. Walsh never rotating out of that setup really. Playing an extra behind the ball only after losing the lead. Not trying to isolate Charlie / pull the FOUR defenders port had zoning around him in the last qtr away because we wanted the extra behind the ball. Taking cinc off butters in the third for no real reason. Probably more I've written elsewhere.


Is what it is but I think they got a hell of a lot wrong tonight.

I also think they're capable of figuring that out. Doesn't mean I can't comment about it on a discussion board.
 
Beyond Blue said:
Please tell me what you think he did that was so bad tonight?
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We were lacking marking options up the ground.

Young was practically non-existent for much of the game.

Curnow came down to half back a significant number of times, got a mark or possession at half back... and had nobody to kick it to.

How about moving Kemp forward? If not Kemp then McGovern who has a history of being a mark and goal option forward? (I know it's healthier for him to play back so Kemp was the move). At the very least I would have had Kemp mark Aliir Alliir and take away his intercept game in a fashion similar to what Weightman did Weiters a couple weeks ago.

Why did he take Cincotta off of Butters for so much of the third quarter when it had been working so well in the first half? Moving him back onto him felt like an afterthought when they'd gotten well on top of us.

Voss can be a good coach. He's proven it in the past. But when the game isn't going on his terms he is too stubborn and unwilling to move the magnets in a timely fashion.
 
SkyhorseTamer said:
I've outlined it elsewhere. You're having a laugh if you think one of (or both) that coaches don't impact games or players just need to play better.

They do need to play better but as I've outlined - part of the coaches job description is place players in a position best suited to them to aid them in playing their best. That's universal for all sports. You don't ask Maxwell to bat a day and a half for a draw. You don't ask your prop forward to be a play maker you want him running straight.

In that vain I think young up forward was wrong, stubbornly wrong after kempy was getting outsized for ages. Kennedy never rotating through a clearance setup that was getting demolished. Cerra too. Walsh never rotating out of that setup really. Playing an extra behind the ball only after losing the lead. Not trying to isolate Charlie / pull the FOUR defenders port had zoning around him in the last qtr away because we wanted the extra behind the ball. Taking cinc off butters in the third for no real reason. Probably more I've written elsewhere.


Is what it is but I think they got a hell of a lot wrong tonight.

I also think they're capable of figuring that out. Doesn't mean I can't comment about it on a discussion board.
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I reckon he’s trying to keep the disruptions to a minimum, ie Young is only in the team because Harry is out rather than shuffle blokes here, there and everywhere. IMO the key is continuity and repetition. When you throw that out the window it’s a sign desperation…eg Ratogolea forward tonight (and Manton forward in 1999)…seldomnisbir sustainable beyond a game or two.

I’m genuinely sorry if I made it feel like I belittled your opinion - that was not the intention - and I respect the fact you came back with your viewpoints. I just don’t think we lost tonight because of Voss. I do however find it bizarre that people bump this tread only when we lose especially when we’ve had success under the current coach. This isn’t Teague who had no real idea what he was doing.
 

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Arr0w said:
When things inevitably turn, I hope posters hang around to discuss the situation this time, unlike the back half of last year, when we wanted everyone sacked, Voss, assistants, Sayers, etc, etc

Our current situation is still about the players, though Voss also needs to take responsibility and change the current mindset
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Last year is ancient history. Can only judge recent performances. Lost three of the last four and confidence, selections and coaching tactics should be questioned.
 
It’s more about the players and having to play players out of position due to injuries but what I am concerned about is that we still after a few years of Voss don’t know what our best lineup looks like. We’ve seen that our best is good enough but we just can’t find it for long enough.
 
Arr0w said:
Sure, question them, I hope people have the same vigour when it does turn

Even those posters that predicted we would miss the 8
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I was one who said we would miss the 8 based on the draw and our injuries. Frustrating when we give up 30 plus point lead in 2 of the last 3 games and get overrun.

4 games to go and we're no certainties for finals.
 
Arr0w said:
Our current situation is still about the players, though Voss also needs to take responsibility and change the current mindset
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You just contradicted yourself in a single sentence. Ray Charles could see that we have the players capable of competing for a flag. Coaching is the key to achieving that.

Unless you’re suggesting the players don’t want to win or aren’t trying, which is just ridiculous and insulting to them.
 

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james Dean said:
You just contradicted yourself in a single sentence. Ray Charles could see that we have the players capable of competing for a flag. Coaching is the key to achieving that.

Unless you’re suggesting the players don’t want to win or aren’t trying, which is just ridiculous and insulting to them.
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In what way have I contradicted myself?

If players aren't bringing the desired intent, execution, etc, talent means squat

How does a coach, leading a side to strong output in the first half of the year, all of a sudden becomes crap

How does a crap coach, 1st half of last year, all of a sudden guide a team to pointy end finals

Everyone plays a part in success or failure, but some have more control to directly impact a result
 
Arr0w said:
In what way have I contradicted myself?

If players aren't bringing the desired intent, execution, etc, talent means squat

How does a coach, leading a side to strong output in the first half of the year, all of a sudden becomes crap

How does a crap coach, 1st half of last year, all of a sudden guide a team to pointy end finals

Everyone plays a part in success or failure, but some have more control to directly impact a result
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You contradicted yourself by saying it’s about the players but Voss needs to take responsibility. Voss isn’t a player.

As for your last 4 ‘paragraphs’. You’re exactly right. Our players are still the same. They still have the same level of ability with the exception of maybe Saad who is the only one I think is physically declining.

For point 1) Why are our players not motivated to bring intent? Surely you can’t accuse Cripps of lacking that, so it can’t be the captain. The buck lies with the coach. He was able to instil it before, what’s changed?
 
james Dean said:
You contradicted yourself by saying it’s about the players but Voss needs to take responsibility. Voss isn’t a player.

As for your last 4 ‘paragraphs’. You’re exactly right. Our players are still the same. They still have the same level of ability with the exception of maybe Saad who is the only one I think is physically declining.

For point 1) Why are our players not motivated to bring intent? Surely you can’t accuse Cripps of lacking that, so it can’t be the captain. The buck lies with the coach. He was able to instil it before, what’s changed?
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I have always assigned a larger portion of responsibility to the playing group, whether that's through a winning streak or poor patches.

Coaches do play a role, especially around tactics. Bizarre that Cincotta was moved off Butters after the first half

Every side this season has had poor patches, ours unfortunately is playing out at the wrong end of the season

Will, Harry and Acres improve that line-up? Absolutely, but our intent and pressure has been off for a month
 
Arr0w said:
I have always assigned a larger portion of responsibility to the playing group, whether that's through a winning streak or poor patches.

Coaches do play a role, especially around tactics. Bizarre that Cincotta was moved off Butters after the first half

Every side this season has had poor patches, ours unfortunately is playing out at the wrong end of the season

Will, Harry and Acres improve that line-up? Absolutely, but our intent and pressure has been off for a month
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agreed
 
No issues with Voss largely, but there are some moves I would've liked to see against Port.

Weiters to Esava - Dixon isn't the threat he used to be and Esava was too big for Kemp.
Another option there would've been switching Kemp forward and Young on Dixon or Esava.

Cripps fwd and Kennedy in the middle.

Cerra to the wing. Cotters to half back. Ollie to half forward.

You could see the signs at halftime IMO. By 3/4 time, the writing was on the wall. Changes needed to be made. No point persisting with what wasn't working.
 
Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods said:
No issues with Voss largely, but there are some moves I would've liked to see against Port.

Weiters to Esava - Dixon isn't the threat he used to be and Esava was too big for Kemp.
Another option there would've been switching Kemp forward and Young on Dixon or Esava.

Cripps fwd and Kennedy in the middle.

Cerra to the wing. Cotters to half back. Ollie to half forward.

You could see the signs at halftime IMO. By 3/4 time, the writing was on the wall. Changes needed to be made. No point persisting with what wasn't working.
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I get the feeling Weiters is being protected. He's not recovering well from 4+ quad corkies this season and we need him most if we make finals.
 
jj1978 said:
I get the feeling Weiters is being protected. He's not recovering well from 4+ quad corkies this season and we need him most if we make finals.
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If that's true, that rope has well and truly been used up.

Sorry Jacob but if we don't start winning, you'll have a much longer off season to recover than you'd like. It's time you went to the most dangerous forward each week.
 
WalshistheGOAT said:
So why were we being talked about as one of the best coaches sides in the comp a month ago when we were in form demolishing teams like Geelong, Essendon and Port?

Id be inclined to say it's more to do with form and personnel than coaching.
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Did you read it?

It literally talks to the points you raised.
 

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Coach Michael Voss

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