Coach Michael Voss

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JustaBattler said:
Which contendingd team would have any of Motlop/Durdin/Fisher/Honey or Silvagni as a starting 22 player? How about Ed Curnow or Hollands or Cowan?
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Preaching to the converted on this topic. I’d say only Durdin would be remotely close to get a game in a good team. Motlop still has time on his hands but his limitations are becoming clearer every week he plays.

It doesn’t help that our best 2 half forwards at Carlton at the moment are either perennially injured (Martin, Cunners). Before we rush to judge Vossy he needs some help from his list manager and fitness team.
 
Beyond Blue said:
Preaching to the converted on this topic. I’d say only Durdin would be remotely close to get a game in a good team. Motlop still has time on his hands but his limitations are becoming clearer every week he plays.

It doesn’t help that our best 2 half forwards at Carlton at the moment are either perennially injured (Martin, Cunners). Before we rush to judge Vossy he needs some help from his list manager and fitness team.
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All in the context of the "lets blame Voss" meme ...
 

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Wickzki said:
Regarding our skill level, I personally find the list structure to be odd. I feel that if you're going to field a team that is athletically slower than the majority of other teams that in order to be successful those players would be of greater skill by disposal. For example, we were among the least athletic teams in the competition when we won the 1995 premiership "too old, too slow..." but we were way too skilled across the ground and we more than made up for it.

The 22 that we sent out against St Kilda (and what were forced to do most weeks) is neither elite in skill nor athletically gifted. As a result, there's no making up for our lack of athleticism via skill nor any making up the lack of skill via athleticism.

This is where we really suffer from having half a dozen players on the list who are either never available or just aren't up to AFL standard.

Nick Austin has the most important draft, trade and free agency of his career this year. We start by thanking those who just won't get onto the park consistently for their years of service and constant rehabilitation (it's bloody hard work, often lonely and depressing AF) and moving on from them.

This will immediately present the club with a golden opportunity to replace them with players who should have an infinitely higher floor. It also allows us a chance to strengthen the list with players who give us greater scope and decrease list deficiencies.

Simply put, Vossy isn't a miracle worker. I'm not cutting my losses with him yet. He does need to be less rigid in his gameplan and structure than what he currently is and there's room for improvement in other areas but truth be told he is far from the biggest problem right now.

If 2023 plays out in the way that it looks like it may, it can be the biggest bump in the road we've had yet but the scope is there for easy improvement.

Go Blues.
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Nice and spot on 👍
 
oldtimer22 said:
On Twitter Grant Thomas has just said that Carlton would be performing better with Ross Lyon as the coach. I agree with him.
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Don't care for grant Thomas or Ross the person but I'd say this year he'd be correct, he's brought to st Kilda what I hoped Voss and Hansen would do.

Still a long way to go in this season and this window though, interesting to see if the saints can add anything more than just disciplined defensive flood and score on the break as a plan.
 

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JustaBattler said:
I note a thunderous silence from the anti Voss brigade this morning - maybe the team won yesterday and they have all one back to resharpen their pencils.
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Seriously claiming victory after belting a vfl standard team? Come on mate. Until we deliver against good teams consistently, there is a big question mark on this coaching group.
 
NewDarkNavyBlues said:
Seriously claiming victory after belting a vfl standard team? Come on mate. Until we deliver against good teams consistently, there is a big question mark on this coaching group.
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True

But the level of melts after 2 losses, to strong sides, was a little off the charts IMHO

Every side has already had unexpected losses or poor showings
 
NewDarkNavyBlues said:
Seriously claiming victory after belting a vfl standard team? Come on mate. Until we deliver against good teams consistently, there is a big question mark on this coaching group.
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You might be right but it gets tiresome seeing it repeated over and over. Its far more enjoyable to ride the journey rather than find faults in microscopic fashion.
I think that it's interesting also how little some naysayers seem to contribute when we win.
 
I'd say most supporters were pretty content with the gamestyle and fast ball movement last night that had no resemblance to the previous 15 games or so.
Presuming that was due to instruction, not just coincidence.(probably a little bit to do with weak opposition)

Most of our forwards looked dangerous also, benefitting from the faster midfield mix.
 
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JustaBattler said:
I note a thunderous silence from the anti Voss brigade this morning - maybe the team won yesterday and they have all one back to resharpen their pencils.
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Not that I'm 'anti Voss' or anything, and it was nice to see them finally do what they're supposed to do and put a poor team to the sword, but I wouldn't be reading a whole lot into that win. West Coast weren't too far off a WAFL team last night imo.

The real test is the next month starting Friday vs Brisbane.
 
Not sure if it’s been mentioned on here but last week there was a comment on one of the Carlton podcasts that basically said the difference between Carlton under Teague and Carlton under Voss is Charlie Curnow.

Of course we are a different team now and a stronger list but it does beg the question how much better are we today because of Voss v Teague and how much are we because of Charlie?

I do personally hope that Voss continues to get better as the coaching team around him make the necessary adjustments particularly in the game plan.




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NewDarkNavyBlues said:
Seriously claiming victory after belting a vfl standard team? Come on mate. Until we deliver against good teams consistently, there is a big question mark on this coaching group.
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There is no 'victory' to be claimed here mate. I come in here for rational discussion about the team and the CLub - and have my own views on which players are up to it and which aren't. As for Voss being 'under the gun' for losing to St Kilda and having a poor game plan and being a poor tactitician - I put these thoughts in the same bucket of spuriousness as spam callers - and I enjoy asking simple questions or making contextual observation regarding what a coach can or cant do - with what players he has at his disposal at any time.

Everyone wants the Club and the team to do well - criticism is fine as long as it is based on a total context. I expect to hear more criticism of Voss with each loss - but personally I think we are a long long way away from needing to consider a new coach or thinking he is a bad coach..
 
oldtimer22 said:
On Twitter Grant Thomas has just said that Carlton would be performing better with Ross Lyon as the coach. I agree with him.
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The Senior Coaching position is the least of Carlton's problem. Questioning the Carlton Coaching Positon sustains the media

I have ranked the issues at Carlton
A) Club leadership from President down. We are going to find out if Sayers, is a Frank Costa or Mcguire. Someone at the helm apart from the coach needs to set the tone

B) Onfield Leadership. It might be we need to recruit a few players with premiership experience but our senior core for many years do not maintain standards. When we underperform it is due to turnovers and decision errors by the likes of Docherty, Mckay, Charlie Curnow, Weitering, Crippa

C) List needs a rebuild. It just is not that strong. We don't have the role players, B and C graders from position 15 to 30. Also Curnow is a true match winner. Saad a game breaker but the rest of our good players are accumulators, including walsh. We need to add a few burst players

D) Fitness staff. They still require a review due to too many injuries. Includes stopping recruitment of players with injuries

E)In game managememt, Match day Tactics and assistant coaches. Voss is weak at matchday coaching and needs to replace at least 2 of his assistants with a tactician and senior assistant. Would do well with a senior assistant like Nathan Buckley even Adam Simpson next year.

F) Senior Coach. Voss may not be the greatest senior coach, however, he has taught this group to contest and put heads over the ball compared to the teague, bolton era. Our club looks for the external scapegoat: Pagan, Malthouse, Bolton, SoS and hangs them out to dry instead of rectifying internal fundamentals. Fix them we could be a top 4 side. Currently our ceiling is 7th or 8th
 
Manhattanite said:
Not sure if it’s been mentioned on here but last week there was a comment on one of the Carlton podcasts that basically said the difference between Carlton under Teague and Carlton under Voss is Charlie Curnow.

Of course we are a different team now and a stronger list but it does beg the question how much better are we today because of Voss v Teague and how much are we because of Charlie?

I do personally hope that Voss continues to get better as the coaching team around him make the necessary adjustments particularly in the game plan.




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
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Miles better under Voss but we are coming from a long way back
 
Manhattanite said:
Not sure if it’s been mentioned on here but last week there was a comment on one of the Carlton podcasts that basically said the difference between Carlton under Teague and Carlton under Voss is Charlie Curnow.

Of course we are a different team now and a stronger list but it does beg the question how much better are we today because of Voss v Teague and how much are we because of Charlie?

I do personally hope that Voss continues to get better as the coaching team around him make the necessary adjustments particularly in the game plan.




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
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Not just Charlie either - first half of the 2022 season when they were up and about, in addition to Curnow Voss had;
  • Cripps fit
  • Hewett in and getting 30 touches a game (averaged 17 for Sydney)
  • Cerra in to go with Hewett
  • Kennedy going from barely a fringe player to goal kicking ball magnet
Reasonable question to consider imo.
 

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Coach Michael Voss

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