- Oct 11, 2019
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Not to mention the money factor. The offer was to good to refuse.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 9 - Indigenous Round - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Coach Michael Voss
- Thread starter Aphrodite
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out of harmes' way
Team Captain
Pretty sure Voss didn't even get an interview for the Pies' job.
KJP7
Senior List
- Mar 22, 2018
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Voss is a leader which is what this group needs, an area he falls down which I think the sub committee that appointed him even acknowledged is his lack of tactical nous.
I think the club needs to work to put a better support network around him, of our current assistant coaches Hansen is probably the only one of note?
Surely the Coaching and Innovation Manager needs to come under the microscope? Whilst the role and function is important, are we sure that Greaves is the man for the job? To me I think someone like Chocco would be ideal given the impact he's had on growing the players and coaches at Melbourne.
I think the club needs to work to put a better support network around him, of our current assistant coaches Hansen is probably the only one of note?
Surely the Coaching and Innovation Manager needs to come under the microscope? Whilst the role and function is important, are we sure that Greaves is the man for the job? To me I think someone like Chocco would be ideal given the impact he's had on growing the players and coaches at Melbourne.
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Makes you wonder... Voss applied for pretty much every vacancy the last how many years? Applied for us and got pipped by Bolton (and Barker...), and Teague even.
I think Voss is driven to prove his sacking at the Lions was premature. I suspect early last year he did the right thing and let his assistants take more charge and control.... then when success ensued he wanted to put more of his stamp on things and started to dictate/add some of his ideas moreso (the "layers") to show the world this team is of his creation and going places.
I don't want us to play in a Grand Final, I want us to win it.
Was there in 73, 86, 93, 99 and trust me losing is worse than not being in it.
For St Kilda or Fremantle near enough might be good enough but this is Carlton.
Think the question should be, will this list, in its current state, get us to a GF.
If it is a resounding yes, then our coaches may not be upto it
If it's a no, it becomes 2 part consideration
What list changes do we require to address our needs
Are we performing to expectations, with the current list
Think there needs to be a big clean out in backroom staff come year end.
We definately need to bring in a tactical mind like Richmond did bringing in Caracella to aid Hardwick.
Also an experienced assistant is needed, look at Macrae who has Bolton and Leppitch.
Andrew Russell’s mammoth contract is up so hopefully he goes and thst opens the cap.
Greeves - what does he even do, get rid of him.
B Lloyd needs to be moved on, get a footy boss with proven success.
Ash Hansen was highly rated but I’d argue our forward line has been completely dysfunctional for 2 years now.
I am saying Ross gets you there maybe (once in a while) but so far thats not been enough for his teams.
I dont think that will change.
Take away coaching and if you saw a list with;
C.Curnow,
McKay,
Cripps,
Walsh,
Weitering,
Saad,
Docherty,
Cerra
as bonafide credentialed AA squad calibre players (all 28 or under).
Then throw in work horses, experienced troopers, 100+ gamers in;
Newman,
JSOS,
Fisher,
Kennedy,
Acres,
Hewett,
Plowman
And kids that have shown promise in;
Durdin,
Hollands,
Cowan,
Motlop,
Kemp,
And followed by those we know are at least capable AFL quality players or better;
TDK,
Cotters,
Young,
McGovern,
E.Curnow,
Pittonet,
Boyd
Note haven't included injured players like Williams, Martin who could fit above somewhere (I'll ignore Marchbank and Cunningham).
That's 32 players (currently presumably all fit). They say you need 30 ready and able in a list to be a chance.
The mere fact that this list can't gel, lines are all over the shop, cant' get mentally in the right headspace for a full 4 quarters consistently again sadly points to a failing in coaching largely. Whether that's on Voss or the whole coaching group as a collective that's hard to ascertain as we're not in the day to day to see or note where the failures lie.
What we have seen in glimpses for the last 4 years or so what the above is capable of with the right motivation and tweaks.
With our list if a coach could come in and break that shackle of failure and lead us to the finals and a final win, I think that'll be the impetus to move us forward rapidly. Time is starting to go off our side with some of our very good players and imagine Ross did get us in the 8 last year (or even Voss) and we happened to win an elimination final, I'd think the mentality of the collective would be much much better this year. Confidence in their abilities would be somewhat proven.
Ross statistically speaking would've gotten us into the finals last year... this year could've been a real opportunity and Ross with his style can't see him having our players looking confused for extended periods.
Bringing in tactical astute assistants sounds good, but the head coach would have to concede that his system has failed and be prepared to accept new advice.(some humility required)
I really hope Carlton's form returns fairly soon.
Sayers doesn't appear to me, the type to sit on his hands and allow the club to underperform for another 12 months, especially after having his first choice vetoed.(I'm no Lyon fan)
Rathdown_Redeemer
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- Aug 21, 2018
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100% - we were neck and neck with Collingwood last year …were ahead of them in the last game and lost in the last minute… and they then went deep into the finals. So look at where they are now and look at where we are? Pretty sure from what Ross has done so far with St Kilda, he would have done even better with our squad… and the experience of that kind of success drives a thirst and a confidence that we don’t seem to have right now.
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One step back. I think the question should be with our current squad and trajectory, is it good enough to get to top 4. Once there we can see how close we are to the pinnacle.
IMO, this squad should be challenging top 4. As it stands, top 8 may be a step too far. Some of the shortcomings must be attributed to the coaching staff where I believe we are thin on analysis and tactics. The panic/second guessing/skill errors can at times be attributed to mixed messaging and flakey instructions. Players just don't lose skills overnight.
Bingo.
Still aligns to the same strategy/analysis, at all those levels, top 8, top 4, flags
Out of those 27, I counted 12 that probably wouldn't crack the 22 for any team in the top 10.
It comes back to what you believe the list is capable of leading into a season
Right or wrong and let's say without any inside knowledge, I believe this group was capable of 13-15 wins.
At that point, you assess ongoing factors, mainly health of list, which could impact output in both directions
If, the non-negotiable was finals, then 14+ wins is the goal
Then, ongoing analysis would be coaching/gameplan/tactics, etc
You might be right but St kilda has a better more list in terms of today's hard running transition football. Ross is also in the sugar hit stage. Let's wait a year. I just don't think carlton have the list talent beyond the first 10 picked
BigLarry76
Club Legend
- Apr 30, 2023
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Kouta was shunned by the club years ago, I’d love to see him take control of our fitness and conditioning, bring back some soul.
The B, D are ordinary with a few exceptions, more so, when you consider fitness. The C group has potential but not ready to produce high output
So it gets back to the point Whately made on SEN Saturday morning... we're a team so beholden to our injuries... our game plan or style cannot handle not having the perfect 22 (23) pieces playing every round.
Further that point about our recruiting being off, taking someone better than what we've got instead of hunting someone of need to balance the list.
So to me;
1. Coaching
2. Historical recruitment decisions
are key factors. But with poor recruitment choices it does not stop a decent coaching panel from transitioning players to adapt in a good system to accept and play other roles.
Sugar hit was Norths start to the season, our start with Teague and Voss... with the Saints it feels a lot different.. I see structure, I see focus, I see intent, I see players role playing and I see cohesiveness across the lines amongst an injury ravaged list. I see what a focused and drilled Stocker can achieve. What a flakey Higgins of recent years is doing. I see team balance... no superstars... no 5+ players averaging 100+ supercoach points (just like the Pies).
No side has their so called best 22 available, but it still depend on who and on what line.
Right now, no excuses with the players we have available, minimum wins should be 13+
You can improve and or reach expected output of players/teams at your disposal, with a sound, consistent gameplan, but you can create miracles
We can't play the style of the Pies, we don't have that footspeed, but with the right system, designed around our player's strengths and weaknesses, no reason we shouldn't beat sides like that.
He might need to do some study/training first if he's taking charge.
