Coach Michael Voss

[Accidental genius]

what are they so afraid of. something smells

Yeah trying to cover up week after week becomes a bit difficult…something definitely not right.

 

[GT619]

Yeah trying to cover up week after week becomes a bit difficult…something definitely not right.

hopefully Cook can find out the issues and fix it

 

[Stamos]

You put our woes down to a simple mindset issue from 3-4 weeks ago??

These are professional footballers…not junior footy.

Form and confidence isn’t a simple issue.
Or it is, but it’s not easily resolved. Look at what’s happened to the Swans. Or the Dogs.

 

[gab213]

There must be ten clubs with big issues because we've seen these dips in form from every team at some point. It's a very even competition this year, I'm struggling to remember another one like it. Things appear to change week from week, let's just see where things are after the end of the H&A season. Everybody gets to reset and prepare for the important season then.

It doesn't take much of a change in confidence, mindset, or structure to upset the apple cart. Our biggest problem IMO is a lack of cohesion, when the team is settled we are fine, when you're making 4 to 5 changes per week it's a problem.

Sacking coaches isn't the answer to what's happening

 

[95blues]

There must be ten clubs with big issues because we've seen these dips in form from every team at some point. It's a very even competition this year, I'm struggling to remember another one like it. Things appear to change week from week, let's just see where things are after the end of the H&A season. Everybody gets to reset and prepare for the important season then.

It doesn't take much of a change in confidence, mindset, or structure to upset the apple cart. Our biggest problem IMO is a lack of cohesion, when the team is settled we are fine, when you're making 4 to 5 changes per week it's a problem.

Sacking coaches isn't the answer to what's happening

Crazy season. Easily 6 teams that could win it..

 

[gab213]

Top energy talent is good but we do not bat deep enough.

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Spot on, we've been exposed for a lack of quality depth, if we field our best team or close to it we're fine, lose more than a couple of players and we are in trouble.

 

[Blue By Blood]

Spot on, we've been exposed for a lack of quality depth, if we field our best team or close to it we're fine, lose more than a couple of players and we are in trouble.

This team has continually won games with multiple injuries over the last few years. We are used to dealing with them. We have a lot of heart and grit and a team good enough to win the premiership if we play the game to our strengths. Just look at how even the season is and how close the losses are. No list is perfect even past premiers. It never can be because there’s a salary cap. We have deficiencies of course but if we play our way we are good enough to win. Our team on paper should have easily accounted for the Pies last night. We have the luxury of weapons. We have to play in a way that gives them the chance to do their thing and the role players are more than capable of contributing with the right setup.

 

[BluStreak]

I am not suggesting we sack Vossy, but I would love to get Adam Simpson over as soon as possible.
Him and Cooky to evaluate our assistant coaches and staff to vet alternatives.

 

[gab213]

This team has continually won games with multiple injuries over the last few years. We are used to dealing with them. We have a lot of heart and grit and a team good enough to win the premiership if we play the game to our strengths IMO. No list is perfect even past premiers. It never can be because there’s a salary cap. We have deficiencies of course but if we play our way we are good enough to win. Our team on paper should have easily accounted for the Pies last night. We have the luxury of weapons. We have to play in a way that gives them the chance to do their thing and the role players are more than capable of contributing with the right setup. Once again my opinion.

Yes, that all makes sense too, but there is a breaking point where you are out of reliable options.

I never expect that we would 'easily' account for experienced teams such as Collingwood, they have been around the mark for a while now, and we are still novices with playing finals/big games.

There's a heap of teams around our level this year, and all of them have the same idea that they deserve to be there and are good enough to beat the others.

We are going to have to hope we can win at least a couple of games now and see where that sets us for finals.

 

[gab213]

I am not suggesting we sack Vossy, but I would love to get Adam Simpson over as soon as possible.
Him and Cooky to evaluate our assistant coaches and staff to vet alternatives.

100%, reckon he would be a great asset for us, But I'd want him as an assistant rather than having him evaluate anything.

Strengthening the coaching panel with somebody of his experience would be great.

 

[BluStreak]

that would be the final objective of the veting process.

 

[Blue By Blood]

Yes, that all makes sense too, but there is a breaking point where you are out of reliable options.

I never expect that we would 'easily' account for experienced teams such as Collingwood, they have been around the mark for a while now, and we are still novices with playing finals/big games.

There's a heap of teams around our level this year, and all of them have the same idea that they deserve to be there and are good enough to beat the others.

We are going to have to hope we can win at least a couple of games now and see where that sets us for finals.

Yeah I agree there’s a tipping point with injuries when it starts impacting structure and selections. Our team last night was not at that point though.

Just like no playing list is perfect. No coach is perfect either. They’re either great with tactics or great with man managing. It’s rarely both. My opinion on Voss is that he’s a great motivator and has instilled a real hardness and resilience to this group. He lacks tactical nous, makes questionable team selections (incl. sub choices), can’t work out the right midfield mix to maximise our strengths and seems to play favourites. He continually prefers to play small in defence rather than rely on depth talls (presumably to try and give us more rebound). He could absolutely still be a premiership coach with us and with this list if he’s able to delegate tactics to those more proficient and if his ego would allow for that. History shows that not all coaches can let go of the reigns like that. He needs to be surrounded by the right types.

 

[Beyond Blue]

what are they so afraid of. something smells

There’s huge expectations for success at our club…fans, ex players, sponsors, media…the only way to overcome it is to continually be in that position. If/once they learn how to deal with it we could become Richmond circa 2017-2020. Until then we’ll continue to see Mots missing goals from 20 metres out directly in front and Charlie playing on after marking in the goal square only to be caught holding the ball like he did against Richmond in round 1.

 

[Soapy V]

I am not suggesting we sack Vossy, but I would love to get Adam Simpson over as soon as possible.
Him and Cooky to evaluate our assistant coaches and staff to vet alternatives.

I’d support that.
I’d also love a development/skills coach like Mark Williams.
Be good to get a recently retired player from a successful side. Fresh ideas and success are gold

 

[JustaBattler]

Yeah I agree there’s a tipping point with injuries when it starts impacting structure and selections. Our team last night was not at that point though.

Just like no playing list is perfect. No coach is perfect either. They’re either great with tactics or great with man managing. It’s rarely both. My opinion on Voss is that he’s a great motivator and has instilled a real hardness and resilience to this group. He lacks tactical nous, makes questionable team selections (incl. sub choices), can’t work out the right midfield mix to maximise our strengths and seems to play favourites. He continually prefers to play small in defence rather than rely on depth talls (presumably to try and give us more rebound). He could absolutely still be a premiership coach with us and with this list if he’s able to delegate tactics to those more proficient and if his ego would allow for that. History shows that not all coaches can let go of the reigns like that. He needs to be surrounded by the right types.

That is a nice summary of all the criticisms of Voss - but you missed the fact that he has red hair. Lets have a look at this list


Tactical nous
Questionable team selections including sub choices
cant work out the right midfield mix to maximise strengths
seems to play favourites
prefers small defense rather than rely on depth talls
cant delegate tactics to more proficient
has an ego that may not allow for that
needs to be surrounded by teh right types.
has red hair

If 1/3rd of these criticisms are on teh money and fair- - I think he should be sacked immediately tonight even if not sooner because according to this list

we need a tactician who can tactic Charlie and Harry and Motlop not missing from 20 meters out
we need a sub choice expert who can pick teh right sub
we need someone who doesn't have favorite players but operefeers players who arent favourites because favourites haven't earned their favoritism they are just lucky or they lick his back side
we need talls like Young and Akuie from VFL to replace umm McGovern and Kemp and maybe Weitering too whilst we are it
we need a good delegator to the assistants that well need to be replaced
we need an ego less person or a person with less ego than Voss because Voss is screaming ego all over the place all the time
we need the right types to delegate to and tell BVoss what to do with tactiX
also Voss needs to colour his hair blonde because blonde coaches have teams higher on the ladder this week or is it brown-haired coaches nm whatever colour as long as it isnt red.


yeah lets f do ti NOW - not too late to find someone betta than Voss clearly it is Voss who misses all those sitters and tackles - it is all Voss's fault.

 

[jpfalvo]

Russell, Lloyd and Austin survived the Teague bloodshed under the Sayers review.

Is it time they moved on

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[gab213]

Russell, Lloyd and Austin survived the Teague bloodshed under the Sayers review.

Is it time they moved on

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For them to have survived the review there must have been good reason for that , such as they were deemed at doing their jobs satisfactorily.

What's the reason for moving them on now? or is it just because, you know, it's time and rather than bolster areas of any concern we do the old Carlton thing of tearing everything down just because we want somebody to pay for us feeling aggrieved? Happy to move anyone on if there's evidence of them failing in their duties. I'm sure that Cook has his eye on things like this all the time.

We should be looking to continually strengthen and improve all areas of the club as long as it's a thought-out and planned process rather than a reactionary response

 

[BM123]

Three issues we have that have been issues for a long time even pre Voss.

1. Kick ins are a mess
2. Long down the line is football from 15 years ago
3. Our inside 50s are a mess

4. Stagnant ball movement until we are 30-40 points down and we switch it up to play attacking football. That's been a constant occurrence thing since Ratten too.

 

[jpfalvo]

For them to have survived the review there must have been good reason for that , such as they were deemed at doing their jobs satisfactorily.

What's the reason for moving them on now? or is it just because, you know, it's time and rather than bolster areas of any concern we do the old Carlton thing of tearing everything down just because we want somebody to pay for us feeling aggrieved? Happy to move anyone on if there's evidence of them failing in their duties. I'm sure that Cook has his eye on things like this all the time.

We should be looking to continually strengthen and improve all areas of the club as long as it's a thought-out and planned process rather than a reactionary response

Russell oversees Fitness. His responsibilities were reduced. Oberservationally discussion in this forum leans to time for a change.

Lloyd oversees Footy dept. Coaching group would be under his remit? Assume Austin too with list mgt.

Lots of questions coming through forum on this area as well

So rather than chopping the head coach, maybe its these guys that need a change?

Its a reasonable rhetorical question to the forum.

Or,

we could do nothing for year 4 of this regime?

But majority of posters across multiple threads are asking valid questions

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[TENACIOUS]

I’m a Voss fan…

He’s helped unite the club and created a fantastic club culture.. People management wise he has been great for us…

Last night watching him sit for large periods on the bench, hand on mouth and then his press conference… For the first time I felt he was a man out of his depth for ideas and not the ultra competitive superman he was as a player…

Coaching Group

The areas of weekness have been plain to see for months, scores from stoppage and bombing it long down the wing out of defence. Voss has stated that we are getting after, getting better for months but nothing has changed…

Bombing it long down the wing out of defence is nothing new, it’s an out for many teams. But we are the worst team in the league for retaining possession, we retain possession something like 32% of the time… So every 10 times we bomb it out, 7 times it comes straight back into our defensive 50… You’d think we’d come up with a better plan or structure the area better, many of the turnovers are uncontested marks…

MC
Some of the player changes each week and sub choices have been bewildering at times… Voss doubled down last night and said we will not make any unnecessary changes because we want to build unity in the 22..

I want to keep Voss as coach, but I want the club to really drill down and find out what has happened from us being 2 games clear in second and now us trying to hold on to 8th.. If it’s staff, assistant coaches, game plan, players, I don’t care be brave and make the call…

This group is in it’s prime for a flag and the window shuts pretty quick…

 

[Blue By Blood]

That is a nice summary of all the criticisms of Voss - but you missed the fact that he has red hair. Lets have a look at this list


Tactical nous
Questionable team selections including sub choices
cant work out the right midfield mix to maximise strengths
seems to play favourites
prefers small defense rather than rely on depth talls
cant delegate tactics to more proficient
has an ego that may not allow for that
needs to be surrounded by teh right types.
has red hair

If 1/3rd of these criticisms are on teh money and fair- - I think he should be sacked immediately tonight even if not sooner because according to this list

we need a tactician who can tactic Charlie and Harry and Motlop not missing from 20 meters out
we need a sub choice expert who can pick teh right sub
we need someone who doesn't have favorite players but operefeers players who arent favourites because favourites haven't earned their favoritism they are just lucky or they lick his back side
we need talls like Young and Akuie from VFL to replace umm McGovern and Kemp and maybe Weitering too whilst we are it
we need a good delegator to the assistants that well need to be replaced
we need an ego less person or a person with less ego than Voss because Voss is screaming ego all over the place all the time
we need the right types to delegate to and tell BVoss what to do with tactiX
also Voss needs to colour his hair blonde because blonde coaches have teams higher on the ladder this week or is it brown-haired coaches nm whatever colour as long as it isnt red.


yeah lets f do ti NOW - not too late to find someone betta than Voss clearly it is Voss who misses all those sitters and tackles - it is all Voss's fault.

I feel like you’ve warped a lot of what I said. Nowhere did I say let’s sack Voss now or at all for that matter. I merely pointed out things he does well along with some shortcomings which can be fixed. The red hair thing is ridiculous.

Now you’re absolutely right about the terrible misses costing us the game. We would have won had we been more polished and executed the basics. The Motlop miss was an absolute howler. We actually had a higher pressure rating for 3 out of the 4 quarters so we busted a gut. That doesn’t mean I have to love the game plan or think it’s maximising our assets. Had we won that game it largely would have been based on talent more than system and finally in the 4th quarter throwing caution to the wind.

To reiterate, I did not say let’s sack Voss. I did not criticise hair colour or play the man like that. I picked out valid critiques and things that can be improved. Because I’m steadfast that whilst this list has some shortcomings, it is still good enough to win the flag in such an even year. We are not a sexy team. We do not have great polish or ball use. What we do have is grunt, physical strength, and heart. The game plan should set up to maximise those strengths.

 

[Arr0w]

Russell, Lloyd and Austin survived the Teague bloodshed under the Sayers review.

Is it time they moved on

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You are rehashing your previous posts, just the timing is different

No one held this view end of last year, not even you

Today you even rolled out Ross Lyon again, after the season the Saints have had and being belted today?

 

[JustaBattler]

I feel like you’ve warped a lot of what I said. Nowhere did I say let’s sack Voss now or at all for that matter. I merely pointed out things he does well along with some shortcomings which can be fixed. The red hair thing is ridiculous.

Now you’re absolutely right about the terrible misses costing us the game. We would have won had we been more polished and executed the basics. The Motlop miss was an absolute howler. We actually had a higher pressure rating for 3 out of the 4 quarters so we busted a gut. That doesn’t mean I have to love the game plan or think it’s maximising our assets. Had we won that game it largely would have been based on talent more than system and finally in the 4th quarter throwing caution to the wind.

To reiterate, I did not say let’s sack Voss. I did not criticise hair colour or play the man like that. I picked out valid critiques and things that can be improved. Because I’m steadfast that whilst this list has some shortcomings, it is still good enough to win the flag in such an even year. We are not a sexy team. We do not have great polish or ball use. What we do have is grunt, physical strength, and heart. The game plan should set up to maximise those strengths.

I used your post purposefully as it summarised a lot of the 'opinions/views' floating around and was a neat reference point.

Yes YOU didn't say 'sack Voss' - I said quite clearly if he is in fact 'guilty of half the stuff that has been stated in your points ie the general summary observations/opnions put out there ( again) this year

THEN I would call for this IMMEDIATE SACKING.

THEN I went about referencing what the implications of what YOU stated would mean

for example: you suggested that Voss has erred in NOT adding talls to the defensive mix- and I stated Voss's choices are: Young and Akuie in VFL - do you have any tall hiding away in VFL to add to this list? Do you prefer Young over ANY of the selected defenders that played yesterday?

People go about about so called 'selection integrity' and playing favourites' - the only player that has been consistently put up as an alternative to selected player is Binns ( who happens to be this year' Dow complex. - DO you seriously believe that Voss and his coaches would purposefully NOT pick a better option - I mean really?

As for the red hair - well I dont like it so I thought I'd add it in - it is my opinion and every opinion is equally valid in this forum.

PS: I wouldn't ask for voss to be sacked because as anyone who understands anything about coaching would know- the coach doesn't miss the easy set shots or tackles or kick ins etc etc etc - the PLAYERS DO.

My view is that the best 22 at Carlton if fit and in form can beat any team in tehe competition on any day - even with their best on ground - and that has been shown to be true for over a year now- however the PROBLEM at Carlton is that the list lacks the developed depth to cover for the fact that there are far too many players injured.

Making a prelim (again) this year after the injury toll - was my best expectation given the closeness of the competition - in my mind it was revised down to making finals after the losses to Adelaide and then GWS.

In simple terms:

Jack Silvagni has no direct replacement available - that is a proper third tall/ruck relief.
Docherty has no direct replacement of equal ability either a sa wng or mid or HF rotation.
Williams/Martin/Marchbank/Cuningham and now add Cerra to teh list find ways to be injured ALL THE TIME

We have no developed midfield options since all of DOW, OBrien SPS, were busts and Carroll has not come on and Philps is no longer even on the list and neither is Fisher.

The list is far from complete and IMO has been outpeforming based on WeiteringCharlie/Cripps and Harry - and the only outstanding improver has been TDK.

 

[Benaly28]

Crazy season. Easily 6 teams that could win it..

Only 2 for me.

Lions and Dogs.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Soapy V]

Only 2 for me.

Lions and Dogs.

I think it’s the weirdest season ever. I can't pick a winner each week. Anyone who finishes top 8 could win it IMO.
All sides have real weaknesses and form is up and down
It’s why I still hold some hope for us

Some luck and momentum and anyone is a chance this year