Opinion Mick Malthouse

[DaVillaBlues]

Mick Malthouse was not employed to rebuild carlton, infact it looks like he's managed to destroy the list with his crap non existant game plan. Going on a book tour instead of coaching the team to start with , what a joke , and the bad humour has continued all the way through. Acting like a complete joke in after match interviews and making the whole club and complete farce, bringing his butt boy dale Thomas over on big bucks injured and favourite son eddie betts not given what he deserved, now the entire forward line is gone for no compensation.
You can make excuses for the bloke till your blue in the face , the guy has failed and failed miserably. I mean look at mitch robinson on the weekend, wouldn't you rather him in a blue jumper, I know I would. What a complete joke he was delisted. He made a mistake ffs.
I'm really really sick of all the excuses he comes up with why he has failed and i'm also really sick od supporters making excuses for him as well. Just about every carlton supporter I talk to wants him gone, so he has to go or else the club will have no on left to go to the games if their not careful.
Employ the best assistant available and move on

Mitch Robinson is probably the biggest reason Jeffy chose to quit the club.

Absolutely rapt bad eggs are no longer at the club.

Look Mick isn't doing the job, the club asked him to do ..

Mick is doing the job the club NEEDS him to do.

I think Mick is doing the right thing for the long term future of the Carlton Footy Club at the probable expense of his coaching career, and I reckon that's downright decent of him.

Under Ratten (for example) we were never more than a 6 - 10th ranked team, and that list has peaked and it was the correct list management decision to blow it up.

Everyone now acknowledges the fact we have to go on a full rebuild, but the harsh reality is that teams that are fully rebuilding don't win many games.

I'm actually oddly excited about the future, the new coach will almost be working with a blank canvas, he will get to build and shape the team in his own image, thanks to Mick

Short term, yes you can say Mick hasn't succeeded at Carlton, but take a look at the big picture, MM has finally given the club the path and direction for rebuilding that the club really hasn't done since the 1995 Premiership.

And I for one, am very grateful to Mick for that.

 

[JustaBattler]

Calling Mick a con artist/shyster etc only reflects poorly on you, not Mick.

If Mick is being overpaid, that's the fault of the board and admin that hired him.

What you don't understand that every club that's embarked on a full rebuild, like we are undertaking under Mick, is going to through 2/3, maybe 4 years of pain. St Kilda are going through it, the Doggies went through it.

Personally I say BRAVO to Mick for having the cojones to finally sweep the broom through the playing list and get rid of the plodders who were taking this club for a ride (McLean, Robbo etc)

Maybe Mick was telling porkies in the pre-season, but that's what naive fans wanted to hear, the fans living on planet reality knew we were in for a tough season (most media experts tipped us to finish bottom 4)

I expect the status quo next year under a new coach FYI. We need to hit the bottom and hkt the draft well for a couple of years to rise again.

shyster
ˈʃʌɪstə/
noun
informal

1. a person, who uses unscrupulous, fraudulent, or deceptive methods in business.

If you don't like the noun - choose something more accurate - it was all I could come up to describe his contribution to Carlton.
He is overpaid - a dollar would have been too much - so is Thomas..
As the president said- his job is to win games - that is what he is paid to do.
As for telling 'porkies' - see definition of his character above..

 

[lachie charm]

This is great to hear, but it also tells me some of our senior players may have to have a run in the twos to learn it

Or just let Webster coach the 1s.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

shyster
ˈʃʌɪstə/
noun
informal

1. a person, who uses unscrupulous, fraudulent, or deceptive methods in business.

If you don't like the noun - choose something more accurate - it was all I could come up to describe his contribution to Carlton.
He is overpaid - a dollar would have been too much - so is Thomas..
As the president said- his job is to win games - that is what he is paid to do.
As for telling 'porkies' - see definition of his character above..

Look I agree signing Daisy was a mistake (at the price he is on) but I do think the adjectives to describe Mick as a Shyster/Fraud is wrong.

Christopher Skase was someone who used 'fraud/con artistry' deception to ruin the lives of thousands of hard working Australians and that's why I feel those terms are strongly inappropriate to describe Mick.

Look, maybe arrogant or ignorant of the state of our playing list is a better list to describe Mick when he took over as coach, mind you i think the previous board who hired him sold him a lemon, think we all were actually.

Look I am happy to concede we shouldn't have sacked Ratts and hired Mick, but I strongly feel Mick is not coaching for himself, but for the long term interests of the club, and I guess that's where we agree to disagree.

I owe you an apology cause I think I've bit of a pain in the arse to you in some of my responses, I do understand where your coming from, but as I say, I feel strongly about the terminology of fraud/con artist etc.

Happy to say I enjoy reading most of your posts, guess we'll never agree about Mad Mick

 

[Windhover]

Look Mick isn't doing the job, the club asked him to do ..

Mick is doing the job the club NEEDS him to do.

I think Mick is doing the right thing for the long term future of the Carlton Footy Club at the probable expense of his coaching career, and I reckon that's downright decent of him.

You are entitled to your opinion but what I find disappointing is your steady refusal to give any objective basis by which others can agree with you. So for example:
[Mick is doing the job the club NEEDS him to do.]

What is this job the club needs? How do we measure whether MM is doing it or" doing the right thing for the long term future of the CFC"?

And then you look backwards with a provably wrong statement:

Under Ratten (for example) we were never more than a 6 - 10th ranked team, and that list has peaked and it was the correct list management decision to blow it up.

Why provably wrong?

Because we know we finished 5th in 2011 - and just missed out on beating a more or less full-strength WC at Subiaco without Gibbs or Kreuzer.

Because we know that after 3 rounds of 2012 we were equal favourites for the flag. And if you have a look at the 2012 list you will see very few players of any importance who were on the way down and plenty of youth with massive upside.

Everyone now acknowledges the fact we have to go on a full rebuild, but the harsh reality is that teams that are fully rebuilding don't win many games.

I'm actually oddly excited about the future, the new coach will almost be working with a blank canvas, he will get to build and shape the team in his own image, thanks to Mick

Short term, yes you can say Mick hasn't succeeded at Carlton, but take a look at the big picture, MM has finally given the club the path and direction for rebuilding that the club really hasn't done since the 1995 Premiership.

And I for one, am very grateful to Mick for that.

The only reason MM has everyone on board for a rebuild is that he has totally mismanaged the list in every way. We have lost good players (whether it was his "fault" or not) in Laidler, Robinson, Eddie, Waite and Garlett; we have recruited 1 overpriced love-child of no long-term value; we have recruited players that have given us no on-field improvement and have no long-term upside in Jones, Woods, Tutt, Whiley and Boekhurst. We have traded away a top 10 draft pick for a sugar-hit.

All the above, disgraceful as it is, pales to irrelevance compared with his REAL mismanagement - a failure to implement any sort of workable game-plan. Those who remember his early days - 2013 - will recall that MM originally claimed it would take time for the players to learn his game plan (this was always a cop-out - it is the coach's job to instil the game plan and if the players aren't getting it, it is the coach's fault.)
Those who remember the 2014 season will recall the embarrassment of MM asking the players whether they were prepared to buy into his game plan. What a surprise the players said they were. Pity no sensible game plan ever revealed itself.

The truth is until MM is gone we will not begin to know who can play and who can't. Maybe under a decent coach who uses them under a proper game plan players like Jones, Woods, Tutt, Whiley and Boekhurst will demonstrate consistent AFL level talent. And if so you will claim we will have MM to thank. Go figure?

 

[Salt Lake Cities]

A big FU to Malthouse. I wanted him to stay, at least until seasons end. He needs to go, NOW!! Self preserving, stubborn, selfish prick. Dropping all the kids is a disgrace, they're the ones who had a crack. This is not in our clubs best interests, it's in his. End this charade M-Lo.

 

[RedFury]

Mick was the guy who said he could get us to top 4

Horrible misunderstanding that one. He meant top 4 in the draft.

 

[chunkylover53]

We haven't got the cattle or young players with the confidence and/or skill set to carry out an attack through the corridor game plan.

You seen Port rebound through the corridor in the manner they do it? That shit is like poetry in motion.

They execute their skills along with this as they have confidence.

Not sure how many of us here have played a lot of footy. But confidence is a ****ing funny thing...

 

[mediumsizered]

I don't know what WC or COLL has to do with Carlton now. I couldn't care less how he won premierships at other clubs. Even if he did play the boundary there, clearly our players aren't capable of doing so successfully--therefore the game plan should change.

Interestingly enough, according to a stat on Fox Footy prior to the Collingwood game, we use the boundary one third of the time that Collingwood used it in their 2010 premiership year.

I watched a number of games last weekend, just to get a feel on what is happening around the AFL & the reality is, except for your better teams, whose players are obviously full of confidence & back themselves, there is a heck of a lot of boundary football being played by the majority of AFL clubs. It is the safety first approach for those teams who don't have self belief & are trying to stem the bleeding.

As noted by another poster, in the second half of last season we played a lot of corridor footy when the confidence was up, but as soon as things go pear-shaped it is the default approach to hug the boundary.

 

[4QTR BLUES]

I have spent a long time off this forum monitoring, reading a large proportion of opinions from the same small group of people. All staunch and willing to stick together to vilify anyone questioning the appointment of Mick Malthouse. A lot of those have absolutely crucified Brett Ratten and what he achieved, blaming him for recruiting blunders.
I suggest the time is right for those who have no idea to put their hand up ie Mathison and apologise for the disruption they have caused this great club.
We are now 5 years behind where Ratten would have had has. He was more than aware of what we were missing and attempting to fill the gaps. Unfortunately money talks...b...s... walks.

Keep the money men in the background and allow those who know football to sort it out.

And for those who think majority rules......we read your crap but choose not to respond.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

I have spent a long time off this forum monitoring, reading a large proportion of opinions from the same small group of people. All staunch and willing to stick together to vilify anyone questioning the appointment of Mick Malthouse. A lot of those have absolutely crucified Brett Ratten and what he achieved, blaming him for recruiting blunders.
I suggest the time is right for those who have no idea to put their hand up ie Mathison and apologise for the disruption they have caused this great club.
We are now 5 years behind where Ratten would have had has. He was more than aware of what we were missing and attempting to fill the gaps. Unfortunately money talks...b...s... walks.

Keep the money men in the background and allow those who know football to sort it out.

And for those who think majority rules......we read your crap but choose not to respond.

until now

 

[4QTR BLUES]

until now

exactly...because there is no disputing how f....... wrong the believers got it!!!!!

 

[Azul]

Horrible misunderstanding that one. He meant top 4 in the draft.

He also said he we'd win every game (overseas) this year.

 

[Peacock]

Malthouse is coaching for one person and one person only - Michael Malthouse.

He decided it was time to rebuild because he figured that would be the best way for him to get a contract extension.

After round 2 of the season.. yes round 2... he went to his press conference and said the list was awful and no one wants to come to Carlton.

This week he's dropped 6 kids and brought in old guys because he knows how badly he needs wins. This in itself is an awful strategy because the old guys will get us another two or three wins but then we lose draft position.

Just sit back and watch after he gets a win or some competitive losses he will start trying to negotiate through the media for a contract extension, and the usual goof balls like Carey, Richardson etc will sprout out their 'gee there is no one better than Mick to rebuild'.

The above actions aren't those of someone who has Carlton's best interests at heart.

Guys like Murphy are meant to be in the prime of their careers and unfortunately are forced to play with this insipid game plan that doesn't even give them a chance to be competitive.

 

[KnaveyBlue]

Guys like Murphy are meant to be in the prime of their careers and unfortunately are forced to play with this insipid game plan that doesn't even give them a chance to be competitive.

Agree entirely with the rest of the post, but not this bit.

Murphy isn't competitive and never came on as hoped because he's just not a competitive beast. Granted the game plan doesn't help, but like many players on our list he seems content to just be an AFL footballer. As others noted he was having a laugh and a joke after our last two losses even though they were absolutely soul-destroying. It appears it's nothing more than a job to him, and many others.

There used to be a player at our local club who was just a monster on the field. Above average footballer, but would do anything to win, including roughing up opposition players and giving them a belting if need be. While having a beer at the clubrooms one day someone told him that he came across as a bit of a volatile bloke. He just laughed and said "Haha, nah, I'm not that bad. Just don't try and beat me at anything, ever."

We need to recruit players with this mindset. Not players who would prefer to win, or get a bit annoyed when they lose. We need players who hate losing.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

This week he's dropped 6 kids and brought in old guys because he knows how badly he needs wins. This in itself is an awful strategy because the old guys will get us another two or three wins but then we lose draft position.

LoGiudice said he had only "touched on" Sunday's loss with Malthouse when the pair met at club headquarters on Monday.

"You can't possibly be happy with that result. It's like everything - no-one likes to lose and, from my perspective, sitting there watching a game like that, it was hard to watch."

He said his message to Malthouse would be "to win games of football - it's that simple".

To be fair, the President came out and said that his message to Mick is to win games of football. We know that Mick doesn't think a group of youngsters can win football games and frankly, by and large he is right. It doesn't matter how terrible people think the senior players are ... young players need time and guidance and we can only carry a couple at a time.

Saying this means that we are looking at someone else to do the rebuild IMO. Mick can only save himself by stringing together some wins, no matter how many young players get game time and improve. That's effectively what that messages is saying. If that's not what he is privately saying to Mick, then why give us the simplistic 'President angry, president want wins' spiel unless he is trying to relate to us dishonestly.

 

[Blue For Life]

You are entitled to your opinion but what I find disappointing is your steady refusal to give any objective basis by which others can agree with you. So for example:
[Mick is doing the job the club NEEDS him to do.]

What is this job the club needs? How do we measure whether MM is doing it or" doing the right thing for the long term future of the CFC"?

And then you look backwards with a provably wrong statement:


Why provably wrong?

Because we know we finished 5th in 2011 - and just missed out on beating a more or less full-strength WC at Subiaco without Gibbs or Kreuzer.

Because we know that after 3 rounds of 2012 we were equal favourites for the flag. And if you have a look at the 2012 list you will see very few players of any importance who were on the way down and plenty of youth with massive upside.



The only reason MM has everyone on board for a rebuild is that he has totally mismanaged the list in every way. We have lost good players (whether it was his "fault" or not) in Laidler, Robinson, Eddie, Waite and Garlett; we have recruited 1 overpriced love-child of no long-term value; we have recruited players that have given us no on-field improvement and have no long-term upside in Jones, Woods, Tutt, Whiley and Boekhurst. We have traded away a top 10 draft pick for a sugar-hit.

All the above, disgraceful as it is, pales to irrelevance compared with his REAL mismanagement - a failure to implement any sort of workable game-plan. Those who remember his early days - 2013 - will recall that MM originally claimed it would take time for the players to learn his game plan (this was always a cop-out - it is the coach's job to instil the game plan and if the players aren't getting it, it is the coach's fault.)
Those who remember the 2014 season will recall the embarrassment of MM asking the players whether they were prepared to buy into his game plan. What a surprise the players said they were. Pity no sensible game plan ever revealed itself.

The truth is until MM is gone we will not begin to know who can play and who can't. Maybe under a decent coach who uses them under a proper game plan players like Jones, Woods, Tutt, Whiley and Boekhurst will demonstrate consistent AFL level talent. And if so you will claim we will have MM to thank. Go figure?

You are entitled to your opinion but what I find disappointing is your steady refusal to give any objective basis by which others can agree with you. So for example:
[Mick is doing the job the club NEEDS him to do.]

What is this job the club needs? How do we measure whether MM is doing it or" doing the right thing for the long term future of the CFC"?

And then you look backwards with a provably wrong statement:


Why provably wrong?

Because we know we finished 5th in 2011 - and just missed out on beating a more or less full-strength WC at Subiaco without Gibbs or Kreuzer.

Because we know that after 3 rounds of 2012 we were equal favourites for the flag. And if you have a look at the 2012 list you will see very few players of any importance who were on the way down and plenty of youth with massive upside.



The only reason MM has everyone on board for a rebuild is that he has totally mismanaged the list in every way. We have lost good players (whether it was his "fault" or not) in Laidler, Robinson, Eddie, Waite and Garlett; we have recruited 1 overpriced love-child of no long-term value; we have recruited players that have given us no on-field improvement and have no long-term upside in Jones, Woods, Tutt, Whiley and Boekhurst. We have traded away a top 10 draft pick for a sugar-hit.

All the above, disgraceful as it is, pales to irrelevance compared with his REAL mismanagement - a failure to implement any sort of workable game-plan. Those who remember his early days - 2013 - will recall that MM originally claimed it would take time for the players to learn his game plan (this was always a cop-out - it is the coach's job to instil the game plan and if the players aren't getting it, it is the coach's fault.)
Those who remember the 2014 season will recall the embarrassment of MM asking the players whether they were prepared to buy into his game plan. What a surprise the players said they were. Pity no sensible game plan ever revealed itself.

The truth is until MM is gone we will not begin to know who can play and who can't. Maybe under a decent coach who uses them under a proper game plan players like Jones, Woods, Tutt, Whiley and Boekhurst will demonstrate consistent AFL level talent. And if so you will claim we will have MM to thank. Go figure?

 

[HARKER]

Right now, there seems nothing worse than to be losing games to teams we shouldn't be losing games to.

Mick wants the players though, to be playing a brand of football that will ultimately lead to being Premiership contenders.
I guess every coach wants that but may not be in a position to implement their vision for lack of internal pressures.

I am though not sure exactly where Mick sits in the scheme of things though right now.............The pressures may just be too much.

 

[murphbf08]

Mitch Robinson is probably the biggest reason Jeffy chose to quit the club.

Absolutely rapt bad eggs are no longer at the club.

Look Mick isn't doing the job, the club asked him to do ..

Mick is doing the job the club NEEDS him to do.

I think Mick is doing the right thing for the long term future of the Carlton Footy Club at the probable expense of his coaching career, and I reckon that's downright decent of him.

Under Ratten (for example) we were never more than a 6 - 10th ranked team, and that list has peaked and it was the correct list management decision to blow it up.

Everyone now acknowledges the fact we have to go on a full rebuild, but the harsh reality is that teams that are fully rebuilding don't win many games.

I'm actually oddly excited about the future, the new coach will almost be working with a blank canvas, he will get to build and shape the team in his own image, thanks to Mick

Short term, yes you can say Mick hasn't succeeded at Carlton, but take a look at the big picture, MM has finally given the club the path and direction for rebuilding that the club really hasn't done since the 1995 Premiership.

And I for one, am very grateful to Mick for that.

No Mick Malthouse is doing what is best for Mick Malthouse.

 

[The Bunyip]

Tom Bell says hello...

Should be miles ahead in the B&F votes at the minute!

 

[The Bunyip]

Mick Malthouse was not employed to rebuild carlton, infact it looks like he's managed to destroy the list with his crap non existant game plan. Going on a book tour instead of coaching the team to start with , what a joke , and the bad humour has continued all the way through. Acting like a complete joke in after match interviews and making the whole club and complete farce, bringing his butt boy dale Thomas over on big bucks injured and favourite son eddie betts not given what he deserved, now the entire forward line is gone for no compensation.
You can make excuses for the bloke till your blue in the face , the guy has failed and failed miserably. I mean look at mitch robinson on the weekend, wouldn't you rather him in a blue jumper, I know I would. What a complete joke he was delisted. He made a mistake ffs.
I'm really really sick of all the excuses he comes up with why he has failed and i'm also really sick od supporters making excuses for him as well. Just about every carlton supporter I talk to wants him gone, so he has to go or else the club will have no on left to go to the games if their not careful.
Employ the best assistant available and move on

Those who've been "moved on" haven't been replaced. Go back to that final in 2013 & the forward line was Waite, Betts, Garlett with a wildcard in Duigan & Robinson floating forward to be a target. Now for various reasons all are gone.
As much as I admire him Ellard is no Betts, nor is Armfield a Garlett or Jones a Waite. I know our problems extend all over the field but this gets under my skin. We've no genuine forwards apart from Levi & he's regularly dropped if he has one bad outing.

 

[Windhover]

To be fair, the President came out and said that his message to Mick is to win games of football. We know that Mick doesn't think a group of youngsters can win football games and frankly, by and large he is right. It doesn't matter how terrible people think the senior players are ... young players need time and guidance and we can only carry a couple at a time.

Saying this means that we are looking at someone else to do the rebuild IMO. Mick can only save himself by stringing together some wins, no matter how many young players get game time and improve. That's effectively what that messages is saying. If that's not what he is privately saying to Mick, then why give us the simplistic 'President angry, president want wins' spiel unless he is trying to relate to us dishonestly.

I take your point ODN and agree that MM ought not be judged on wins alone, particularly with young players being given significant game time.

On the other hand to suggest MLG is being dishonest with us by informing us he told MM "win games of football" is a bit rough. Sure it is simplistic but, when it is all said and done that is what MM is paid to do and, ultimately, what any President wants of their coach however good-bad the development of young players might be.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I take your point ODN and agree that MM ought not be judged on wins alone, particularly with young players being given significant game time.

On the other hand to suggest MLG is being dishonest with us by informing us he told MM "win games of football" is a bit rough. Sure it is simplistic but, when it is all said and done that is what MM is paid to do and, ultimately, what any President wants of their coach however good-bad the development of young players might be.

Dishonest by omission Windy. I'm sure his message to Mick was more detailed than that.

His original message is 'we are rebuilding', then it is 'Mick is safe ... this year', then it is 'I told Mick to win games'.

We know Mick isn't going to win games by going the rebuild route this year. We know we can only blood so many youngsters in the side at the same time and remain competitive. The message seems to be that Mick needs wins to save his job but in order to win, we can't go into a meaningful rebuild mode.

It just seems to me that Mick is out unless he can prove that a rebuild is not necessary by winning games.

 

[Windhover]

Dishonest by omission Windy. I'm sure his message to Mick was more detailed than that.

His original message is 'we are rebuilding', then it is 'Mick is safe ... this year', then it is 'I told Mick to win games'.

We know Mick isn't going to win games by going the rebuild route this year. We know we can only blood so many youngsters in the side at the same time and remain competitive. The message seems to be that Mick needs wins to save his job but in order to win, we can't go into a meaningful rebuild mode.

It just seems to me that Mick is out unless he can prove that a rebuild is not necessary by winning games.

The take-out I get from MLG several statements you have collected is that MM is out at the end of the year. Full stop.

Although I want MLG to say as much I am not a sensitive soul on the subject and I do not particularly criticise MLG for not wanting to look too vicious. And the way things are going perhaps even MM will not need to be pushed out the door.

 

[smashbox gill]

One current assistant i reckon would fit us perfectly as a head coach is Brett Kirk. Would demand excellence, yet still have that nurturing side. Not sure how great a assistant he is, but if he translated how he played to his coaching think he would be fantastic.