Opinion Mick Malthouse

[Ellas Ellas]

Our list is no where near as good as Sydney, Fremantle, Geelong, Port Adelaide, Gold Coast and Hawthorn. North Melbourne, Collingwood and Essendon have better lists than ours at this stage but these teams could go either way over the coming seasons. That's 9 teams with a better list than ours. Perhaps add GWS in there, they aren't winning a lot but they will, that makes 10. Adelaide may be a fraction better than us but only by a whisker. That's 11ish.

West Coast and Richmond have similar quality lists to ours though I recon Richmond's could be slightly better but they have been over coached and coached very poorly this season but still much of a muchness. Our list is better than the Doggies and Melbourne for now. It is better than Brisbane and a lot better than St Kilda's.

This puts us about where we belong.

The List

Finished
Duigan, Scotland, Bootsma
-two good old players

Past their Best and nearly finished
Judd, Simpson, Waite, Jamison, Carrazzo
- a heap of talent here that are past their prime, still good enough to get a game but arent the dominating match winners they were in their prime.

Nearing their declining years
Walker, Mclean, Armfield
- Been handy regulars but are slowing down.

Haven't turned out as good as expected
Kreuzer, Watson, McInness, Warnock, Temay, Thomas and all the ones we have got rid of recently.
- This list is pretty damn long, correlates to our weaknesses a bit. Chance some might come good but they will be coming good late if they do.

Slow, Limited or Poorly Skilled
Lucas, Warnock, Mclean, Rowe, Bell, Curnow, Ellard
- Too many of them in the one area (Midfield), demonstrates lack of quality in this area.

Promising Youngsters
Menzel, Johnson, Buckley, Docherty, Cripps, Graham, possibly Holman
- This list has grown significantly over the last couple of years, shows that it's improving and how bad we were. A few years ago I may have had 0 or maybe two players on this list. Takes a lot of getting over this bad drafting. These boys are not there yet either.

Genuine up and coming Tall Forwards
Casboult, Watson?
- Nothing more than potential being shown at the moment, no one stepping up and actually doing it and no Henderson is a center half back, is just handy as a forward.
- Are there any stars here? Anyone here capable of kicking 50 or 60 goals?

Good small forwards
Garlett when he wants to.
- Hate to say it but we miss Betts, Our other forwards are more medium forwards and by that I mean they they are not good or natural crumbers but rather leading types, Yarran is however. None chase well out of the forwardline.

In their Prime
Murphy, Gibbs, Robinson, Curnow, Yarran, Rowe, Henderson, Bell, Everitt, Tuohy, White
- just two A graders but they are really lower end A graders and a good one we are having to play out of position. Lacking class players in their prime, simply and by far not enough.

Possible All Australians
Gibbs and Yarran are slight chances.
We haven't had many lately which is a sign of where our list is at.


How can you not see the dire state the list is in? Lets look ahead three or four years. Take out Duigan, Scotland, Judd, Simpson, Waite, Jamison, Carrazzo, Walker, Mclean, Armfield. There are a lot of players here that we have relied on for a long time, of course we are going to slide when they do. Who's taking over? Well were still trying to find them. Unfortunately the answer is guys like Bell, Robinson, Curnow and the currently very raw and unknown quantities that are Graham, Cripps and Holman. Not many of our players if any are currently up there with the leagues best.

Meh it's easy to put a negative slant on our list, I could just as easily put up a positive one. Fact is we won a final last year and we have a reasonable spine and a good enough midfield. We are good enough to be beating bottom four sides. We have lost to three of them. To me that is unacceptable.

And on the Ling issue, Mick's behaviour was not that of a rational man. If he went in to the rooms and unleashed on the players as well, it's easy to see why Sydney kicked the next 11 goals.

 

[AndrewVadermk2]

Mick gets white line fever, just like the players, and probably just like he did when he played, it's probably what drives his competitive nature which is what has made him a good player and coach and fuels his energy to put it all into the job. People just fail to understand Mick and a few things about him.

Plenty of players are as nice as pie, buy you a beer etc off the field but on it are all elbows and punches trying to knock your head off. Any one who's played knows these types! Coaches get like this too.

Thing is a player's white line fever starts when they cross the line and ends when the final siren goes. You go up to a player with a microphone in the middle of a quarter and see how gruff and grumpy they get and see where they will tell you to go.

The coach is on the job hours before and after the game. They put him in front of a mic while he's still on the job and wound up and 100% focused on coaching and before he has talked to his players after the game when he is still in game mode. Walk into his environment (change rooms) and get in the way while he's in game mode trying to focus and do a job and prepare to cop what you get.

You aren't going to get him calm and cool around game day, it's part of what drives his passion and gets him going and who he is. I'd be more worried if I saw him cool and calm on game day, that to me would suggest that he is finished and has lost the passion. I hope that his fire and passion rub off onto the players, I know our boys try hard so it probably is.

Mick's gonna be fired up on game day just like the players, he's going to be gruff, grumpy and blunt but he's also a good coach so you just take the good with the bad. Personally it doesn't bother me, we aren't here to be liked, we're here to win premierships. Stay out of his way while he is working and ask good questions when interviewing him (have you noticed lately they are and his pressers are better now).

Mick does have a habit of talking to the media on game day like you do footballs by replying to their questions with questions, it's just his style, it's how coaches make players think and find out what they are thinking. He's not trying to be rude, he's still in coaching mode and to him 100% of his job is coaching on game day, not talking to the media, that's just something he has to do.

Some coaches are cool and calm like Thompson, that's just who he is, Thompson also burnt out after coaching Geelong too and was reluctant to get back into it where as Mick has lasted for such a long time.

Lingy is a big boy, he can take a spray, I'm sure he has in the past many times. Same with Richo, hell Richo gave some of the all time great onfield sprays himself! Imagine him in the same shoes as Mick!

If you got a hold of Mick during the week he'd be fine, he generally is, he was fine in his media role, just remember on game day it's all about the game. he'll be passionate, assertive and very grumpy!

Some members of the media, those with big fat egos (one or two in particular) can't take being questioned or criticised for asking stupid/blatantly obvious questions. Personally I make nothing of it. You ask a question and he replies, "what do you think?". I recon that's fair enough, he doesn't go off when they answer wrong but he does give his opinion. What you get then are two people's opinions from the one question which is a neat little trick from Mick, that's how he'd learn a lot from his players. Watch his interviews, how often do you get the journo's point of view and micks when they ask him a question, it's quite good. People see this as rude though when it's not.

He doesn't like press conferences after games, hates being interrupted when he's working and likes his privacy and doesn't like giving anything away which in an over competitive environment is fair enough.

People make far too much of how Malthouse behaves towards the media. Unfortunately you piss a few journalists off they are going to hammer you and what's worse is people are going to believe and go along with what they hear/read in the media.

mick is representing carlton and if he is arrogant then people lable carlton as arrogant. If the room ios too hot, get out! representing carlton in a crap mannor and way yea im allowed to think BS. All the rest just seems to be excuses, yes they are realities but learn to have composure and respect (even if they are idiots) respect the media and the like and hey even carlton supporters and then respect will be gained and given. If this doesnt happen why should i even take notice of the old so and so. I am liturally wasting my life listening to him speak.

 

[AndrewVadermk2]

Meh it's easy to put a negative slant on our list, I could just as easily put up a positive one. Fact is we won a final last year and we have a reasonable spine and a good enough midfield. We are good enough to be beating bottom four sides. We have lost to three of them. To me that is unacceptable.

And on the Ling issue, Mick's behaviour was not that of a rational man. If he went in to the rooms and unleashed on the players as well, it's easy to see why Sydney kicked the next 11 goals.

if we had won a final against a current top 6/8 side i would be more unrealistic with you. But the reality is it was richmond and they arent exactly setting the world on fire ...

 

[etsal1]

Some people take optimism to new level.

 

[Anthony Melia]

MM thinks if you have never played a game of footy at the highest level your a pice of shit he it's the face of carlton he may get away with his tantrums when his teams are playing well eg look at sheedy ,Thomson always looking for positives being a coach is about the mind player need to have a positive mind. Set. That's hard to do when all your boss spews is negative

 

[Magruder]

MM thinks if you have never played a game of footy at the highest level your a pice of shit he it's the face of carlton he may get away with his tantrums when his teams are playing well eg look at sheedy ,Thomson always looking for positives being a coach is about the mind player need to have a positive mind. Set. That's hard to do when all your boss spews is negative

Do you know him personally? Have you been coached by him?

 

[Azul]

Can't coach. 5 wins, 11 losses.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

MM thinks if you have never played a game of footy at the highest level your a pice of shit he it's the face of carlton he may get away with his tantrums when his teams are playing well eg look at sheedy ,Thomson always looking for positives being a coach is about the mind player need to have a positive mind. Set. That's hard to do when all your boss spews is negative

My kingdom for some punctuation and sentence structure.

Thompson publicly questioned Jake Carlisle's work rate and desire a few months ago didn't he?

One thing about Mick is that he avoids directly bagging out his players as much as possible. When lead by the media, he will concede that players have had bad games, but by and large he protects his playing group and has said he'd rather the media apply the blow torch to him than them.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

MM thinks if you have never played a game of footy at the highest level your a pice of shit he it's the face of carlton he may get away with his tantrums when his teams are playing well eg look at sheedy ,Thomson always looking for positives being a coach is about the mind player need to have a positive mind. Set. That's hard to do when all your boss spews is negative

When has he ever said that?

I'm not a Malthouse lover by any stretch of the imagination but I think you might be clutching at a couple of straws.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Can't coach. 5 wins, 11 losses.

Grand finals 02,03 with Collingwood, came 14th/16 in 05, rebuilt and two years later they were nearly in grand final. we aren't having a great season but the idea that he can't coach is ****ing outrageous.

 

[Mezzoculo]

Grand finals 02,03 with Collingwood, came 14th/16 in 05, rebuilt and two years later they were nearly in grand final. we aren't having a great season but the idea that he can't coach is ******* outrageous.

I think Azul is joking, too...

 

[AndrewVadermk2]

My kingdom for some punctuation and sentence structure.

Thompson publicly questioned Jake Carlisle's work rate and desire a few months ago didn't he?

One thing about Mick is that he avoids directly bagging out his players as much as possible. When lead by the media, he will concede that players have had bad games, but by and large he protects his playing group and has said he'd rather the media apply the blow torch to him than them.

didnt he recently come out (and yes i agree with mick obviously) but say we lack alot of talent. So as a group are you turning up to training thinking is mick talking about me etc etc?

was at the first carlton v collingwood game this year round 7 i think. was so lucky to be allowed in rooms before and after match etc. Waited for mick to finish after game press, mick comes through door, i call out hey mick! was happy had a smile on my face and yep was told by security to get back and have never been looked at by anyone in my life as a piece of s--t and he kept on walking. Nioce way to treat a die hard and i wont forget, miock has lived an easy life for such a long time he has forgotten what real people are like.

anyways thats a bit negative... Go Blues

 

[Magruder]

If you've read this thread you will know that I am firmly of the view that MM is absolutely the right coach for the medium term.

Proven list builder, appears a solid man manager, still has the passion.

The problem is that improvement will probably take time to manifest. When it does it will appear as if it happened almost instantly, as if a switch was flicked or that the game plan has been adjusted.

Truth is the hard work that determines whether we contend in 2017 or 2018 for example is being done right now.

 

[happydude]

If you've read this thread you will know that I am firmly of the view that MM is absolutely the right coach for the medium term.

Proven list builder, appears a solid man manager, still has the passion.

The problem is that improvement will probably take time to manifest. When it does it will appear as if it happened almost instantly, as if a switch was flicked or that the game plan has been adjusted.

Truth is the hard work that determines whether we contend in 2017 or 2018 for example is being done right now.

It's like before a team has a run at the flag the players usually talk about how it started for them in November not august

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

I think Azul is joking, too...

given the overwhelming optimism surrounding mick right now you could understand the confusion

 

[AndyLucimitis]

didnt he recently come out (and yes i agree with mick obviously)

I thought that would have relieved a lot of his frustration.

 

[gbatman]

Too many people have no faith or thought process, they only believe what they see in front of them. At the moment they see Carlton losing. They blame Malthouse. Despite the state of out list and best 22 and his record.

 

[Magruder]

It's like before a team has a run at the flag the players usually talk about how it started for them in November not august

We are a fair bit away from that, but yes kinda.

as gbatman put it, signs of list decay were evident as earlier as 2011/12. MM is attempting fix 4 or more years of poor recruiting. It will take time and requires buy-in.
Using your analogy it requires a get on board or get off the bus approach from players, support staff, administrators, coaches. Those who won't or can't get on board will be exited.

 

[AndrewVadermk2]

Too many people have no faith or thought process, they only believe what they see in front of them. At the moment they see Carlton losing. They blame Malthouse. Despite the state of out list and best 22 and his record.

i have faith in the process and no its not micks fault agree totally, do i think he is arrogant, most definately, whats that mean on the greater scheme of things .. nothing. but still feels good to know i dont think he does carlton any favours by the childish ways he act and reacts towards media et al.

 

[gbatman]

Meh it's easy to put a negative slant on our list, I could just as easily put up a positive one. Fact is we won a final last year and we have a reasonable spine and a good enough midfield. We are good enough to be beating bottom four sides. We have lost to three of them. To me that is unacceptable.

And on the Ling issue, Mick's behaviour was not that of a rational man. If he went in to the rooms and unleashed on the players as well, it's easy to see why Sydney kicked the next 11 goals.

It's not a negative slant it's fact. The truth doesn't lie.

Our spine has no genuine successful forwards. Our midfield has no one you would even consider for All Australian except perhaps Gibbs and maybe Murphy who aren't realistic chances at all. It's shallow, lacks pace, skill and ball winning ability. We won a final last year, from 9th and it was Richmond who currently sit 12th then got whacked up in Sydney and this is still better going than we did previously under Ratten.

Yeah we've lost to a few bottom sides, who aren't that far below us and are close enough to our quality to get up and beat us. We aren't overly mentally tough and turn up expecting to win against bottom sides and flop. Beat those sides last year, we are a lot worse this year with our aging stars dropping off even more.

We have a couple of good players in their prime and a couple of kids in our best 22. It takes a lot more than you think it does to be a good top line footy side I am afraid. You can thank Ratten and Hughes for where we are now and why there aren't many 20-25 year olds standing up with Gibbs, Yarran and Murphy who are our best. The gap in genuine top end talent in this group is the problem.

 

[Magruder]

i have faith in the process and no its not micks fault agree totally, do i think he is arrogant, most definately, whats that mean on the greater scheme of things .. nothing. but still feels good to know i dont think he does carlton any favours by the childish ways he act and reacts towards media et al.

A fair call.

 

[Magruder]

Ellas Ellas. There ARE positives on the list, just not the spread and volume you need.

 

[serenityNow]

Personally i think Mick is the right man for the job at present and would rather no other to rebuild us.
However his behaviour in press conferences etc must be addressed, I dont give a flying **** who you are, when you put on a carlton shirt and work for this club you represent it in a professional manner..... no exceptions. Talking down to people and being dismissive in the manner he does is just Arrogant, rude and reflects poorly.

Dealing with dead shit journos etc comes with the job...deal with it.

 

[gbatman]

i have faith in the process and no its not micks fault agree totally, do i think he is arrogant, most definately, whats that mean on the greater scheme of things .. nothing. but still feels good to know i dont think he does carlton any favours by the childish ways he act and reacts towards media et al.

He acts like a football coach towards the media and addresses them like players. Funny enough it has actually worked and they are now asking far better questions are appear more prepared, no one eating or being disrespectful like that. You might say he has got the best out of them, has a habit of doing this. People take it the wrong way, I don't find it rude, he's not calling people names or swearing. Arrogant or confident. He is supposed to be a figure of authority, might come across as arrogant perhaps. To me he's just a passionate football person who commands attention, respect and can get people to think about what they are doing. Alistair Clarkson has a similar approach to the media, not always but often. Great coach however.

Big problem with the world and I hate to say it but people are getting soft and so damn easily offended! People aren't taught to deal with criticism, being told off is a part of life but this is being softened every where, people aren't taught to deal with being "picked on" or having harsh things said to them any more and there are too many people out there who can't handle it. Even kids play sport in an environment where sport is played where score isn't kept so there are no losers! Schools and Kids sports have it wrong but that's an issue for another day. Unfortunately you get in the real world and it's not like this, you are tested.

People take mick the wrong way and the journos he offends take every chance to light him up the wrrong way. Don't fall for it.

As I said, there's nothing to gain from being liked, we're out there to be respected.

 

[AndrewVadermk2]

He acts like a football coach towards the media and addresses them like players. Funny enough it has actually worked and they are now asking far better questions are appear more prepared, no one eating or being disrespectful like that. You might say he has got the best out of them, has a habit of doing this. People take it the wrong way, I don't find it rude, he's not calling people names or swearing. Arrogant or confident. He is supposed to be a figure of authority, might come across as arrogant perhaps. To me he's just a passionate football person who commands attention, respect and can get people to think about what they are doing. Alistair Clarkson has a similar approach to the media, not always but often. Great coach however.

Big problem with the world and I hate to say it but people are getting soft and so damn easily offended! People aren't taught to deal with criticism, being told off is a part of life but this is being softened every where, people aren't taught to deal with being "picked on" or having harsh things said to them any more and there are too many people out there who can't handle it. Even kids play sport in an environment where sport is played where score isn't kept so there are no losers! Schools and Kids sports have it wrong but that's an issue for another day. Unfortunately you get in the real world and it's not like this, you are tested.

People take mick the wrong way and the journos he offends take every chance to light him up the wrrong way. Don't fall for it.

As I said, there's nothing to gain from being liked, we're out there to be respected.

comedy night is tomorrow