Analysis Midfield, Ruck and On-ball - A bull and some class? Depth ruck?

[ant555]

Brush up on this from Woosha if it helps. In it he explicitely says that our "inside midfield" stocks are covered on the list.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-09-09/bombers-can-fix-inside-midfield-struggles-woosha

"ESSENDON coach John Worsfold believes the Bombers can fix their inside midfield struggles from within.

Essendon was destroyed by Sydney during the second quarter of Saturday's elimination final loss, conceding 10 goals on the way to a 65-point defeat.

The Swans won the ball on the inside and swept it forward to give Lance Franklin (four goals) and Callum Sinclair (three) countless one-on-one chances.

"We've got a lot of growth in this group and part of that is grunt as they grow and mature," Worsfold said.

"I'd say that was an area we were short against Sydney today but I think we'll be able to add that to our group from within."

"Worsfold said Essendon would also look to the draft and trade period to boost its midfield talent, particularly following the retirement of club champion and inside bull Jobe Watson."

 

[DERO]

Can you two at least agree that we need inside mids? Blind Freddy can see that.

 

[Vander18]

I have a type in mind for 1 reason and that is because you can not teach someone to be a center clearance player. It is a natural instinct. The best have an outside game to go with their inside game and if you are even more lucky they have pace.
Last season I said before the draft that McGrath would be the best fit for us as he is quick and has a decent defensive mind set. I know the club has looked at quick and I have not said they are wrong. Now I will say they will look at inside Midfielder this year as we have little left in that area. Watson gone, Hwolett gone, Bird gone, Hocking gone and Myers has to prove he is up to it.
I am not assuming they are wrong. It is as plain as white balls on a black dog where we lack depth. Classy inside ball winner. Dustin Martin , Rory Sloan Dangerfield, Sellwood.

We do have some very good young midfielders but none are genuine week in and week out inside ball winners other than Clarke who is a dodgy kick.
Even our skipper in not at his best as a genuine inside clearance winner. We need someone to win the ball.

We have speed. Darcy Parish is at his best as a second receive player or an open stoppage player. His best footy is getting in the clear and running.
McGrath will move into the midfield but he will not be a clearance bull either. He will win his share of the footy inside, he will be good defensively and possibly our run with guy who can attack the other way with his speed. Is also a very good user of the footy.
The we have Merritt who gives us midfield class but again despite being good at tackling is not a genuine inside midfielder. You want the ball in his hands and not have him scraping on the ground.
Walla and Raz will have cameo roles to play.
Heppell's best role is more of a continual running role, lots of hand ball receives or lead up play or second receiver at a center clearance.
BJ is not an inside mid.
Myers has to find form again. Had some decent inside clearance form 4 years ago but jury is out.
Colyer no inside game at all.
Dylan Clarke has an inside game but is an ordinary kick.
Koby Much has work to do on is disposal but is more of an outside guy with just above average pace.
Laverde and Begley both half forwards who we hope may play midfield but both have questions on their ball winning clearance ability.
Langford being taught midfield but again is not a fierce inside ball winner. If he makes it will be more of an outside ball user.

I rest my case.

Thoughts on the ability of Francis to one day play as a burst midfielder? Assume the fitness comes, does he have the skillset?

I never thought he did but have seen a few things that have made me reconsider.

 

[Yoda_]

Then what the hell was your post about about prior to this?

You were telling me they weren't up to it.

Our current mids don't have the development in them to go from the worst clearance side in the comp to something that resembles a competent aAFL side.

 

[foj1]

Can ambrose play as an inside mid?
Is about the best runner at the club.
Left field thought

 

[YoboD]

Please do point out where i have ever said anything other than we are not up to top 4 ?
Start of the year said it would be down to the mental aspects of the game and if the players could get their head around the defensive aspects. I said we where good enough ability wise and should play finals but I doubted we had what it took to take the next step up.
Just before I said we will be in and around finals but not take the next step if we do not address it.

The post prior to this was just highlighting the are we have fallen down in the most against the class sides of the comp.
Our inside ball winning is currently the weak point. This is why I have also said how important the likes of Laverde being able to step it up is vital to us.
Nothing I have said above about the players is wrong. We now have some outside class. We now have limited inside class.
I did not say players where not up to it. I simply said most are not genuine inside ball winning players. You need the balance of a couple of class outside types (Merritt, Parish,Merrit) with a couple of hard inside Sam Pepper Powell types or if you are really lucky a Dustin Martin or a Rory Sloane.

You bang on about the Hawks. Inside/outside ball winner. Sam Mitchell. Hard nose inside winners Sewell / Lewis. Outside pace Smith , Hill and Burgoyne. Inside run with player with speed Sheils. Then Hodge who could go in and play inside if needed plus your part time speed in Rioli , Puopilo and Bruest who played mainly forward with part time midfield roles.

Agree with most of what you're saying here, but there's no way Parish classifies as a class outside player. He is far more of a contested, clearance winning inside mid.

Definitely agree we need more of that type of player though. Do you think that those quality inside leaning midfielders can be found pretty regularly later on in the draft? Feels like guys like Parker, Crouch, Sloane, Powell-Pepper tend to go later in the draft, which bodes well for us considering our likely draft position for the next couple of years.

 

[Towno78]

Can you two at least agree that we need inside mids? Blind Freddy can see that.

Lol, I'm pretty sure that's the main point they don't agree on

 

[blitzer]

Can ambrose play as an inside mid?
Is about the best runner at the club.
Left field thought

I wish we'd tried this instead of Ambrose spending time in the ruck. With his height and leap that was never going to work. Though I suspect Ambrose in defense will be as good as he gets.

 

[eDPS]

Can ambrose play as an inside mid?
Is about the best runner at the club.
Left field thought

I don't think his decision making is quick enough, even midfielders with questionable smarts can still play in the middle on instinct I'm not sure Ambrose fits the bill. Size, competitiveness and running power would be great but not sure he would be anything but someone who just gets the ball and boots it

 

[DERO]

Lol, I'm pretty sure that's the main point they don't agree on

Ok. Let me rephrase that. Can we agree that an area we need to work on is our stoppage work. To address this we can either develop from within using players who may or may not be able to play the role or we look to the draft/ trade and target specific players who can fulfill that need.

 

[freddy mercury]

I think our priority should be an inside mid. But I also reckon stringer could be an inside bull. Strong as an ox. Has good speed. Just lazy. That's his biggest flaw.

I would love him at Essendon, his best is very good. A change is all a player like him needs.

 

[Yoda_]

We have had a lengthy discussion over what sorts of players we need but in reality we do need better players in all positions bar, possibly KPD. Even then you could make a case to upgrade Hartley (and our depth which is questionable).

Pouring over some stats for the year and it is pretty easy to see where it is needed.

[averages]
Total clearances (= last with Carlton)
Centre Clearances (6th)
Total stoppages (last)

Suggests that our first choice midfielders are ok but the depth we have is questionable, and not good enough to maintain high standard to challenge the best sides.

 

[jsd09]

Dream off season

Kelly - Trade to Essendon
Rockliff - Free Agency

Midfield sorted, the end.

 

[yaco55]

Improvement from the midfield group will happen organically from within the list and who we draft - I see no reason why Parish and McGrath won't become inside midfielders and Langford is developing, though I have my doubts about him - And expect Heppell to be in the guts next year - Long term, I have high hopes for Clarke if he plays his preferred inside role in the VFL next year - Our midfield is solid but has lots of development - I'm more concerned how for the 3rd time this year we lost a game because our tall defenders couldn't stop contested marks - It was a joke by our defenders.

 

[fishardansin]

Re Ambrose in the middle, I think it could be a good move. It would require a little bit of adjustment.

Firstly, we would benefit from another tall KPD, preferably around 200cm. I like the red hed kid who played some ruck in VFL. I thought he showed enough leg speed to play as defender and his height and reach would do well against a resting ruck. We could potentially send Hooker back and have Hurley play more defensively. Keep McGrath back there to be a one two punch with McKenna in running it out.

We could then play 2 rucks with Bellchambers spending a lot of time deep forward to draw attention away from Daniher. Stewart to work high to draw attention away from Daniher in the other direction. Two smalls to work off Bellchambers and a 6th forward being either a defensive player to curtail their run or part of midfield rotation.

Ambrose is still not quick enough to be the atracking mid we want but he could be given a defensive and blocking role. First job is to get between opposition's main ball winner and the drop of the ball. Second job is to block for our smaller mids when they get the ball. In doing so he increases the size and weight of our men around the ball. Finally he, Heppell and Myers can have the responsibility of setting up defensively when the ball is in motion.

 

[Bomberbuzz1]

Will ambrose make a bigger difference than what Myers already does?
Let's say he doesn't, does he just stroll back into defence? If he is training generally as a midfield will he have lost cohesion with the defenders if he then went back to defence?
I think the risk is too great, i don't believe we played luey and Bellchambers together so that's also a risk.
If we had just one more key post you could take the gamble.

 

[Lore]

MIDFIELDERS
Midfielders: Craig Bird, Dylan Clarke, Travis Colyer, Brendon Goddard, Heath Hocking, Dyson Heppell, Kyle Langford, Zach Merrett, Kobe Mutch, David Myers, Darcy Parish, David Zaharakis
Ruckmen: Tom Bellchambers, Sam Draper, Matthew Leuenberger, Shaun McKernan

Summary: Essendon could add some more big-bodied midfielders. In the ruck stakes the club was been buoyed by the development of Sam Draper in his first year at the club.

http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2017-09-13/the-dons-depth-chart

 

[Yoda_]

Re Ambrose in the middle

Won't happen at AFL level. The club tried to do this at VFL level, 3 - 4 years ago and he really struggled with the 360 degree game of being a midfielder. He is not creative enough to be a forward so it really is defender (and follow them around) or bust.

 

[Zach Package]

It's not out of the question that the only ones that make round 1 2018 from the midfield that did most of the work this year are Zaharakis, Heppell, Merrett and Parish so in many ways we're only just pressing the reset button now.

Bellchambers is seemingly the ruck we're hitching our wagon to and will only get more consistent as he builds himself back up so him, the 4 above and McGrath will be the core we roll into next year with which probably leaves 4 spots that are genuinely up in the air. How would we feel about trotting out:

AMT - Hooker - Stewart
Fantasia - Daniher - Laverde
Merrett - Heppell - Zaharakis
McKenna - Ambrose - McGrath
Francis - Hurley - Gleeson
Bellchambers - Rockliff - Parish

Mutch - M.Kennedy - Goddard - Langford

 

[BigJoeD_]

It's not out of the question that the only ones that make round 1 2018 from the midfield that did most of the work this year are Zaharakis, Heppell, Merrett and Parish so in many ways we're only just pressing the reset button now.

Bellchambers is seemingly the ruck we're hitching our wagon to and will only get more consistent as he builds himself back up so him, the 4 above and McGrath will be the core we roll into next year with which probably leaves 4 spots that are genuinely up in the air. How would we feel about trotting out:

AMT - Hooker - Stewart
Fantasia - Daniher - Laverde
Merrett - Heppell - Zaharakis
McKenna - Ambrose - McGrath
Francis - Hurley - Gleeson
Bellchambers - Rockliff - Parish

Mutch - M.Kennedy - Goddard - Langford

I'm salivating.

Kennedy (if available) is worth our first IMO, you need to pony up based on your needs. The kid is exactly what we are after, both short and long term. If we waste our pick on Stringer rather than address a need it will be horrific list management.
I've been as guilty as any of trolling Rocky, but he runs both ways, wins the footy and is a tackling machine.

We're a legit finals side if we pull those deals off IMO

 

[Towno78]

It's not out of the question that the only ones that make round 1 2018 from the midfield that did most of the work this year are Zaharakis, Heppell, Merrett and Parish so in many ways we're only just pressing the reset button now.

Bellchambers is seemingly the ruck we're hitching our wagon to and will only get more consistent as he builds himself back up so him, the 4 above and McGrath will be the core we roll into next year with which probably leaves 4 spots that are genuinely up in the air. How would we feel about trotting out:

AMT - Hooker - Stewart
Fantasia - Daniher - Laverde
Merrett - Heppell - Zaharakis
McKenna - Ambrose - McGrath
Francis - Hurley - Gleeson
Bellchambers - Rockliff - Parish

Mutch - M.Kennedy - Goddard - Langford

Someone needs to tell the players they're kicking the wrong way!

 

[Lore]

7.50 on the Footy Panel-

Worsfold explicitly asked about big-bodied midfielders, 'can it be covered from within with younger players or someone from outside?'

Worsfold:

"Yeah we don't have any big, what we would call the Jobe Watson calibre guys, but we've got some solid boys that will step up.

Kobe Mutch played mainly on the wing this year in the VFL, but started playing inside a bit late in the year and he's going to grow into a really solid boy, so we think he's got potential to play inside and outside he's got a huge tank he can run all day, but he can win the ball inside.

Josh Begley is another player who late in the VFL season they started to give him some time through on ball, and again got very good tank, good speed. I wouldn't be surprised to see him develop into someone who can go through the midfield, as a really strong bodied player as well.

Now they're going into their second year so the expectations won't be huge, in terms of how they can perform, but we expect that that should be an aim for those guys.

Kyle Langford developed really well throughout this year, we had him working in the midfield in the VFL all year as part of his development. So he's going to be looking for opportunities to step up inside.

Jayden Laverde's another one that we believe we can start to put some midfield development into him.

So we think we've got the players on the list, and that doesn't mean we won't look outside as well.

You know if we can add in immediate talent that will be something we'll be looking at as well.

There's a lot of things that have to happen to get players to the club."​

http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2017-09-13/the-footy-panel-ep-28

 

[MightyDons4]

7.50 on the Footy Panel-

Worsfold explicitly asked about big-bodied midfielders, 'can it be covered from within with younger players or someone from outside?'

Worsfold:

"Yeah we don't have any big, what we would call the Jobe Watson calibre guys, but we've got some solid boys that will step up.

Kobe Mutch played mainly on the wing this year in the VFL, but started playing inside a bit late in the year and he's going to grow into a really solid boy, so we think he's got potential to play inside and outside he's got a huge tank he can run all day, but he can win the ball inside.

Josh Begley is another player who late in the VFL season they started to give him some time through on ball, and again got very good tank, good speed. I wouldn't be surprised to see him develop into someone who can go through the midfield, as a really strong bodied player as well.

Now they're going into their second year so the expectations won't be huge, in terms of how they can perform, but we expect that that should be an aim for those guys.

Kyle Langford developed really well throughout this year, we had him working in the midfield in the VFL all year as part of his development. So he's going to be looking for opportunities to step up inside.

Jayden Laverde's another one that we believe we can start to put some midfield development into him.

So we think we've got the players on the list, and that doesn't mean we won't look outside as well.

You know if we can add in immediate talent that will be something we'll be looking at as well.

There's a lot of things that have to happen to get players to the club."​

http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2017-09-13/the-footy-panel-ep-28

RIP Clarke .

 

[Lore]

RIP Clarke .

Good pick up. Still got a year on his initial contract though so we'll see.

 

[Bomberbuzz1]

So let's say mutch laverde Langford begley parish McGrath are all going through our midfield. Put them with Heppell Merrett zaharakis and one of Goddard/ Myers/ inside mid trade pickup puts the total to 10, 3xmid 2xwing 4xbench equals up to 9. It would be rare that a fwd or a defender isn't on the bench so that would mean 2 of the 10 will need need to be included in the fwd and backline. Out of the 10 a lot of them can rotate fwd but not a lot through the backline. I'd like to see the ones on the outer at this stage ie. mutch laverde Langford and to see start working with the defenders so they can get a look in at halfback and to then cover the midfield rotations from there. When you have the likes of Merrett Heppell parish and McGrath being the protected the likes of mutch laverde Langford are going to be required to protect, defend. The same goes for Myers if he wants to maintain a position, he needs to become more half back than inside/outside midfielder.
They have to work together as you'd probably think if Heppell or Goddard are in there they are probably going toe to toe with the best stoppage player, Merrett McGrath zaharakis parish and even Fantasia and Walla would get the defensive mid leaving the like of the rest to deal with the damaging attacking player that they will need to rotate on. They will have the least rewarding job for what they will actually do to stop their opponent. I hope they can work together and cope with what's ahead being the blue collar mid.

Can anyone provide a evaluation of Langfords year and if his role was similar to that blue collar mid in the vfl?