Mike Sheahan article in the H-Sun

[HBF]

http://heraldsun.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,20286054%5E19742,00.html

thoughts..??

 

[blueboy25]

spot on by sheahan add gibbs in there and we may just sneak into 8th next year

 

[gadj1976]

Fair call IMO.

Our real problem is our defence. Whilst we've scored more goals than other sides, and are kicking 12 - 17 goals, we're getting easily outscored. Thornton is a lone man in defence and we desperately need a CHB.

I think next year we're going to get better/more consistent, but I can't see us winning games when we regularly get over 15 or more goals kicked against us.

Having a look, we're currently 400 points (against) shy of where we were at the end of Rd 22 last year, so the beltings are getting better, but we're miles away from being top 8 material unless a genuine CHB just drops in our laps. But we're also 300 points (for) shy as at Rd 22 last year.

What's the significance of Stevens having a better preparation?

 

[bibi01]

Fair call IMO.

Our real problem is our defence. Whilst we've scored more goals than other sides, and are kicking 12 - 17 goals, we're getting easily outscored. Thornton is a lone man in defence and we desperately need a CHB.

I think next year we're going to get better/more consistent, but I can't see us winning games when we regularly get over 15 or more goals kicked against us.

Having a look, we're currently 400 points (against) shy of where we were at the end of Rd 22 last year, so the beltings are getting better, but we're miles away from being top 8 material unless a genuine CHB just drops in our laps. But we're also 300 points (for) shy as at Rd 22 last year.

What's the significance of Stevens having a better preparation?

your defence can only be as good as the players up the ground allow it to be.

if fwd miss set shots for goals or midfielders turn the ball over up the ground, you hand the ball back to the opposition and imedietly you have pressure on the backline.
if the ball is coming in lace out with no pressure on the ball carrier, they as a backmen you are stuffed.

we don't have 1 real problem, we have a number of problems.

goal kicking accuracy
poor disposal leading to turnovers
laziness
missed tackles & pressure

 

[saint13]

your defence can only be as good as the players up the ground allow it to be.

if fwd miss set shots for goals or midfielders turn the ball over up the ground, you hand the ball back to the opposition and imedietly you have pressure on the backline.
if the ball is coming in lace out with no pressure on the ball carrier, they as a backmen you are stuffed.

we don't have 1 real problem, we have a number of problems.

goal kicking accuracy
poor disposal leading to turnovers
laziness
missed tackles & pressure

yeah have to agree with you there, its not just one area, its a few we need to work on, i like the look of bower, i think he will help to some degree down back, but the need for a good key position defender is most in need IMO

 

[Kenny Hunter]

spot on by sheahan add gibbs in there and we may just sneak into 8th next year

Your dreaming

We all want that , but no finals till 2008 for carlton , still problems down back with a lack of talls

 

[gadj1976]

your defence can only be as good as the players up the ground allow it to be.

if fwd miss set shots for goals or midfielders turn the ball over up the ground, you hand the ball back to the opposition and imedietly you have pressure on the backline.
if the ball is coming in lace out with no pressure on the ball carrier, they as a backmen you are stuffed.

we don't have 1 real problem, we have a number of problems.

goal kicking accuracy
poor disposal leading to turnovers
laziness
missed tackles & pressure

Yep, Bibi, i agree, I was more saying that it's our most obvious area that we need to improve ON PAPER.

Certainly our goal kicking on the weekend was causing us frustration, and our turnovers and missed tackles.......well, we are the KINGS!

Is it just me or do we not look as physically imposing as most other sides running around in the comp?

 

[as0l0]

according to some stats we saw yesterday, our defence has had the most improvement this year. our defence has conceeded 65 LESS goals than last year (so far). Not a bad turn around.

Anyway, good article from Sheehan and he said as much on talking footy last night. Walls also put himself out there in defending Carlton and agreed with Sheehan that we are on our way now.

 

[pumped]

Really believe that there are enough cattle to be close to top 8-10 next year. Also believe we had enough talent to be 10-12 this year at least. The balance of the list is getting better. With Setanta and Bower looking likely regulars next year the back 6 is looking much brighter. Our forward line is already good and I feel that Lance could be freed up to join Kennedy and Fev as tall options. Would look to have Waite rotated thru forward, midefield and defence.

The side has plenty of match winners but lacks consistency. I felt the Collingwood game for the first 3 quarters showed what the side is capable of. They played direct attacking footy and the efforts in attacking the ball and also the defensive pressure was what we have been waiting for.

Sheahan mentions Nick believing in himself and I think this is true. I also feel that Denis also can be a major weapon for Carlton's rise next year if he believes in himself more. The Denis Pagan I have seen does not have belief. I feel he tries to protect himself rather than back himself. Kouta too was like this but has bounced back and really seems to be more free now.

With or without Nick I feel the club can rise. Denis and Kouta still have enough left to be great catalysts and if Nick stays and finds consistency then he will be a handy back up to them. We already have Fev and Lance leading from the front and with others like Murphy, Walker, Betts, Simpson, Thronton already establishing themselves things can be good far sooner than is being touted.

 

[FieryNayta]

Is it just me or do we not look as physically imposing as most other sides running around in the comp?

NO we really dont. Thats one thing id like to see change around the club, and why we should target some sort of hard bodied, rough kid in the draft.

I do believe the carlton players are aware of this deficiency, and i believe to be the reason that we over-reacted so violently to the scotland bump. It was great to see however and i was so uplifted by their spirits. But you could just tell the boys were rattled by the physical confrontation, while the pies seemed to thrive on it. More confidence and physical maturity will also help iron out this problem.

As far as hardness goes at the club, i think Fevola is almost a lone soldier. He's an impressive man with a huge set of cannons and legs like tree trunks. Whats more, he doesnt mind a bit of biffo!

But also watch for Walker becoming an imposing figure. He's got a friendly disposition and good heart, but his body is really starting to look as hard as a coffin nail. Doesnt mind crashing packs and will be a pillar of strength and skill in coming years. If he fires up at only the right times, i can see him being considered one of the tough players of the competition.

 

[pumped]

NO we really dont. Thats one thing id like to see change around the club, and why we should target some sort of hard bodied, rough kid in the draft.

I do believe the carlton players are aware of this deficiency, and i believe to be the reason that we over-reacted so violently to the scotland bump. It was great to see however and i was so uplifted by their spirits. But you could just tell the boys were rattled by the physical confrontation, while the pies seemed to thrive on it. More confidence and physical maturity will also help iron out this problem.

As far as hardness goes at the club, i think Fevola is almost a lone soldier. He's an impressive man with a huge set of cannons and legs like tree trunks. Whats more, he doesnt mind a bit of biffo!

But also watch for Walker becoming an imposing figure. He's got a friendly disposition and good heart, but his body is really starting to look as hard as a coffin nail. Doesnt mind crashing packs and will be a pillar of strength and skill in coming years. If he fires up at only the right times, i can see him being considered one of the tough players of the competition.

Take what you say about Fev and his flying of the flag. However I believe we need guys who just run hard and uncompromising at the ball and in contests. Fev when in the zone does this beautifully but can drop off when his head is not in the right place.

Darren Hulme was small in stature but never took a backward step. Some of his courageous acts mid way through his career truly lifted the side. Way back Wayne Blackwell was similar but not that big in stature. A gorilla would be good but a Jon Brown one preferably. In the mean time we just need all of our players to attack with passion and determination. This is what we did prior to the dust up.

 

[bibi01]

Yep, Bibi, i agree, I was more saying that it's our most obvious area that we need to improve ON PAPER.

Certainly our goal kicking on the weekend was causing us frustration, and our turnovers and missed tackles.......well, we are the KINGS!

Is it just me or do we not look as physically imposing as most other sides running around in the comp?

it's a ctach 22 really

make a significant improvement in 1 area and there 'should' be a flow on effect to the other area's
yeah we really lack strong bodies all over the ground.

 

[FieryNayta]

Take what you say about Fev and his flying of the flag. However I believe we need guys who just run hard and uncompromising at the ball and in contests. Fev when in the zone does this beautifully but can drop off when his head is not in the right place.

Darren Hulme was small in stature but never took a backward step. Some of his courageous acts mid way through his career truly lifted the side. Way back Wayne Blackwell was similar but not that big in stature. A gorilla would be good but a Jon Brown one preferably. In the mean time we just need all of our players to attack with passion and determination. This is what we did prior to the dust up.

i agree. What your talking about is a different kind of hardness, but one that is just as (if not more) important than the intimidation. Especially in todays games these players are worth their weight in gold, and unfortunately we dont have too many of them down at carlton.

 

[HBF]

We have deficincies in our defence, midfield and ruck divisions, with only our forward line setup in pretty good shape.

We drafted Hartett, Bower to try to fill the hole back there, and we're also developing Setanta to play as a running half back. We've also got Jake Edwards, but he's more of a long term option. Lance is playing well enough down there to hold down a regular spot, and he would be a valuable asset in the development to Setanta. I believe we need to draft another KPB, but with pick 17 or 19.

Midfield is the priority in this draft. Gibbs is just about a certainty to be drafted by Carlton, and i'd take the best midfielder left at pick 17. Hopefully this will get us someone like Pettard, O'Brien, Connors (probably gone by then) or Collard. I'm sure one pretty good mid will slip through to 17.

With the ruckman, i'm not sure we should take a ruckman in this draft, especially when Sellar and Leuenberger will be gone. The jury is still out on Renouf. We should either try to get Meeson in the PSD, or wait until next year and have a look at Kruzer or Bellchambers.

 

[as0l0]

I do believe the carlton players are aware of this deficiency, and i believe to be the reason that we over-reacted so violently to the scotland bump. .

I actually think that we over-reacted because we haven't stood up for ouselves the last couple of years. In fact, I am happy to take the loss in favour of our boys standing up for themselves. They showed some real passion there and that will be very valuable as we move forward.

 

[as0l0]

i agree. What your talking about is a different kind of hardness, but one that is just as (if not more) important than the intimidation. Especially in todays games these players are worth their weight in gold, and unfortunately we dont have too many of them down at carlton.

but we are building them!

 

[SA Blue]

"Only three wins and a draw, yet seven of the 17 losses have fallen in the range of 1-20 points. The Blues also have led at three-quarter time in seven of the losses, a sign of both young legs and a general lack of self-belief. "

I had no idea that this was this high. If that is true then there is more improvement than I thought.

Whilst it is good to read a positive article, realistically there is still a little bit of pain ahead. In 2007/08, we should saw some of the elite talent we have / going to draft enter the team on a regular basis and reform at a high level.

Better times are ahead. Well they can't get any worse!!

 

[Bluebear]

Nice to see Mike trying some Journalism instead of printing rumour and inuendo about who met who and who may not be at the club next year (re: assistant coaches crap a few weeks ago).
About time the media stopped enjoying the slide and started to report on the facts about our list.
Go Blues!
Thought his comments today re Didaks bump were pretty good too.
The whole match review thing needs to be looked at seriously, and Byron Picket should sue the AFL over lost wages/tarnished reputation if hip and shoulders to the head are legal.

 

[stokesy]

This season hasn't been as hard as previous seasons. It was hard when Prenda, Livo, Longmuir, Chambers and co. were running around and you were thinking "what the ****".

I really can't wait for next year, the boys will be aiming for finals - as everyone does - but if we can win a couple of early games anything can happen. I just hope blokes like Bower can play their fair share of football in the ones.

 

[HBF]

I just thought it was good to have some positive press for a while. I also hadn't realised that we had lost 7 games by less than 20 points, which shows we are not that far away. Would just like to see some continual improvement next year.

 

[Blue Boyz]

Your dreaming

We all want that , but no finals till 2008 for carlton , still problems down back with a lack of talls

You have summed up our main weakness very accurately Kenny. We won't playing any finals footy until we can recruit/draft at least two quality talls.

I know supporters love to talk up our future but the fact is that our best defender Thorton does a great job week in week out despite giving away many cm's and kg's and in reality he is back pocket or flanker at best.

Talk about what potentially Bower, Edwards and Hartlett will do in the future is just that. They have played one game between them and from what I have heard Hartlett doesn't seem to have the right attitude to make it.

Obviously I want the club to recruit Gibbs but I wouldn't be heart broken if we went with a young KP defender in Hansen. It's just a pity we couldn't draft both.

 

[celtic_pride]

We won't get much better on the field until we get an new coach I believe.
We are probalby about 5 or 6 players away from being very competetive but I really don't want to see Pagan coaching the side after 2007.

 

[WalkerTexasRanger]

Take what you say about Fev and his flying of the flag. However I believe we need guys who just run hard and uncompromising at the ball and in contests. Fev when in the zone does this beautifully but can drop off when his head is not in the right place.

Darren Hulme was small in stature but never took a backward step. Some of his courageous acts mid way through his career truly lifted the side. Way back Wayne Blackwell was similar but not that big in stature. A gorilla would be good but a Jon Brown one preferably. In the mean time we just need all of our players to attack with passion and determination. This is what we did prior to the dust up.

I like the hardness of some of our kids - esp Simpson - Blackwell looked good on weekend and even Bentick for 1st half of yr. They all look about 15 and so aren't imposing like the Fev - but they all put their heads and asses on the line to get the ball - Good to see

I also agree that Walker could become the enforcer that we need in midfield - he was fully prepared to dust up with that little rat Didak - and one more pre-season and Walker will be the young Kouta - hopefully with a little more mongrel.

Backline needs one too - Gee I would love to see someone smash Barry Hall this week! But it ain't gonna happen. Perhaps Setanta can divine his Viking heritage and become a real mongrel hard man down back? We should use our lowest pick to get a hardnut defender to train up as our Frankenstein - teach him all his skills - like a piece of clay - mould.

 

[WalkerTexasRanger]

This season hasn't been as hard as previous seasons. It was hard when Prenda, Livo, Longmuir, Chambers and co. were running around and you were thinking "what the ****".

I really can't wait for next year, the boys will be aiming for finals - as everyone does - but if we can win a couple of early games anything can happen. I just hope blokes like Bower can play their fair share of football in the ones.

Agree entirely with the sentiment! Who knows what can happen. Finals are an improbability - but sh*t let us have some optimism - that's one thing the Club needs right now.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

All we need is a bit of mongrel in us. that's why i like Libba being at the club and hopefully some of that will rub off onto the players.
also if we are looking to play finals in a couple of years then we need a CHB and if we draft one this year then its still going to take at least 4 years until they can play on the best forwards and by that time Fev, Kouta, Lappin, Whitnall, and Stevens will all be gone or past it. so i think we need to trade for one if Bower Hartlett or O'halipin arn't going to make it.