Miller

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Good luck, I hope he serves you well... if you do in fact sign him up. He's a good bloke I'm sure, just didn't fit into Melbourne anymore with the ratehr large amount of young players coming through. He should be of great service to your forward line, and I wish him and you both, all the best.
 
Age Of SMD said:
Good luck, I hope he serves you well... if you do in fact sign him up. He's a good bloke I'm sure, just didn't fit into Melbourne anymore with the ratehr large amount of young players coming through. He should be of great service to your forward line, and I wish him and you both, all the best.
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All those kids coming through held him back ey. At times couldn't get a game in front of Michael Newton.

Good bloke though.
 
tugga said:
The fact that he turned down a farewell game and stuck with his mates in the VFL shows the man's character.
I do agree it's a puzzling decision, but apart from Jack, our next highest goalkicker this year was Nason with 14. If Miller is required to perform a role from the rookie list, then so be it. I have faith in Dimma.
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:thumbsu:

Spluff said:
You mean somebody with talent? Yeah, hopefully. It's a football club, not a community center.

This is a guy who got delisted by Melbourne. Can somebody name me a Demons full forward?

They preferred to go with NOBODY than to retain Brad Miller. Surely the team with the coleman medallist and best young key forward in the league should be more picky about who they draft in key forward slots than the team without any key forwards.
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And who's to say Melbourne are doing the right thing? :confused:
 

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Barnzy said:
All is not lost as long as A) It's for a late, late rookie pick and nothing more and B) Under NO circumstances does he get a game in front of any of the kids if they're fit and takes away from their development.

Still think it's a dumb move and a waste of time though. Don't understand this "insurance" rubbish. Should be recruited to Coburg to mentor the kids if that's what they want. Then he clogs up their list not ours. Will just be another Kent Kingsley situation.

Also, I thought the GC had access of up to 10 pre-listed AFL players (delisted players). Why wouldn't they take him given I'm pretty sure they have been linked to him and they have stated they're looking for key forwards/rucks? Hope they do take him anyways so we can't.
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You answer your own qualms. Obviously as Craig Cameron has stated, he will only play to fill in if our other youngsters aren't ready. You cannot seriously say you'd prefer Griffiths to run out round one just so he can play scared like he did this year and redo his shoulder?

Please read this:
http://www.melbournefc.com.au/tabid/7415/default.aspx?newsid=101407

And then tell me how on earth it could cost us anything. Actually a pretty interesting article detailing mature age rookie list changes for this year. Also, we took Kent Kingsley in the PSD so he took up a senior list spot, was also less vaunted as a leader, was also there to play not mentor/coach. I personally prefer comparing apples with my apples.
 
Tiger_Stripes said:
You cannot seriously say you'd prefer Griffiths to run out round one just like he can play scared like he did this year and redo his shoulder?
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If Griffiths is not ready next year then play Post or Vickery who will be developed forward next year. Pretty simple. They aren't little kids, they're coming into their 3rd year and are/will be big boys. Just need development and it's not like we need instant results. We're rebuilding not aiming for finals. Is Miller the insurance incase we lose a forward or 2 and slip from 13/14th to 16th? Oh no, that would be horrendous. Who cares. Sorry, just don't see the logic. Other option of wanting to use him as a mentor/coach - Coburg can draft him and he gets to play with our kids while clogging up their list. Easy.
 
Barnzy said:
If Griffiths is not ready next year then play Post or Vickery who will be developed forward next year. Pretty simple. They aren't little kids, they're coming into their 3rd year and are/will be big boys. Just need development and it's not like we need instant results. We're rebuilding not aiming for finals. Is Miller the insurance incase we lose a forward or 2 and slip from 13/14th to 16th? Oh no, that would be horrendous. Who cares. Sorry, just don't see the logic. Other option of wanting to use him as a mentor/coach - Coburg can draft him and he gets to play with our kids while clogging up their list. Easy.
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I am going to go to a game wth you next year Barnzy.
I swear I will do whatever it takes. I will buy you free beer.
But each time you jump up and cheer a good thing that Miller does for us, I am going to whack you in the back of the head.
I am tipping that by the end of the game, you will have a very sore head and perhaps some mild brain damage.
 
Dea_Day said:
:thumbsu:



And who's to say Melbourne are doing the right thing? :confused:
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We only gave him 8 years. I'm sure he is about to turn the corner. ;)
 
Barnzy said:
If Griffiths is not ready next year then play Post or Vickery who will be developed forward next year. Pretty simple. They aren't little kids, they're coming into their 3rd year and are/will be big boys. Just need development and it's not like we need instant results. We're rebuilding not aiming for finals. Is Miller the insurance incase we lose a forward or 2 and slip from 13/14th to 16th? Oh no, that would be horrendous. Who cares. Sorry, just don't see the logic. Other option of wanting to use him as a mentor/coach - Coburg can draft him and he gets to play with our kids while clogging up their list. Easy.
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You really don't like reading huh?

We have two mature rookie spots.

They are for mature players.

Mature means not young.

If we don't pick them they stay empty.

They are also rookie spots.

Rookies are not on the main list.

Rookies cannot play unless elevated.

Q.E.D

Also don't believe we will develop Post and ultimately Vickery forward, the former will become a Ryder mould mobile ruck forward. The latter will spend some time developing between Coburg and the seniors building a hard body for the ruck with forward stints for experience.

Third year is still very, very young especially for any kid over 190 cm. Go to the dogs board and ask about Ayce Cordy. Highly rated youngster who, exactly like Griff came in with a shoulder reco. Hasn't seen a senior game yet, why? Because they are an up and at it side. The kids get development chances first. We are flogging Rance, Post, Vickery et al. Collingwood may have played with 8 players under 50 games today, but the youngest was Sidebottom, 19 and the others were all 22 or so. To have played under 50 games at 22 means they were given the first couple years to develop, are they worse players for it? Well, that kind of answers itself doesn't it. They played in a grand final today, Griffiths probably iced his sore shoulder.
 
tugga said:
I am going to go to a game wth you next year Barnzy.
I swear I will do whatever it takes. I will buy you free beer.
But each time you jump up and cheer a good thing that Miller does for us, I am going to whack you in the back of the head.
I am tipping that by the end of the game, you will have a very sore head and perhaps some mild brain damage.
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Now that is classic.
 
Tiger_Stripes said:
You really don't like reading huh?

We have two mature rookie spots.

They are for mature players.

Mature means not young.

If we don't pick them they stay empty.

They are also rookie spots.

Rookies are not on the main list.

Rookies cannot play unless elevated.

Q.E.D
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Just because the spots are there don't mean they have to be used. RFC like an impulse buyer. It's there so they must have it. Have to trade in fringe players, have to draft in spud mature age rookies. How did Polak work out for us? Did next to nothing and now he's gone. His spot was wasted and it could've been used on a kid.

Tiger_Stripes said:
Also don't believe we will develop Post and ultimately Vickery forward, the former will become a Ryder mould mobile ruck forward.
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First off Post will never play the Ryder mobile ruck/forward role. That's crazy talk. Ryder is one of the better young ruckmans in the AFL. He doesn't have the agility, leap and lacks a fair few cm. If he comes up against a 200cm+ capable ruckman he won't be able to touch the ball. He might be able to play the Leigh Brown role. Was a liablity in the GF but has been a solid role player as an average player in a very good team. Can compete in the ruck but not have much of an impact. Does his damage up forward and I expect Post to be developed mainly up forward or back.

Tiger_Stripes said:
The latter will spend some time developing between Coburg and the seniors building a hard body for the ruck with forward stints for experience.
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Heard he's going to play 100% forward next year or at least the majority of his time forward. Fully expect Post and Vickery to play 15+ games next year.

Tiger_Stripes said:
Third year is still very, very young especially for any kid over 190 cm. Go to the dogs board and ask about Ayce Cordy. Highly rated youngster who, exactly like Griff came in with a shoulder reco. Hasn't seen a senior game yet, why? Because they are an up and at it side. The kids get development chances first. We are flogging Rance, Post, Vickery et al. Collingwood may have played with 8 players under 50 games today, but the youngest was Sidebottom, 19 and the others were all 22 or so. To have played under 50 games at 22 means they were given the first couple years to develop, are they worse players for it? Well, that kind of answers itself doesn't it. They played in a grand final today, Griffiths probably iced his sore shoulder.
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Ask anyone of our supporters about Astbury, go to the Hawthorn board ask any of them about Stratton. Go to the Essendon board, ask about Hurley, Adelaide board Davis, etc. Should they stop playing them because they're young? No and they won't. Getting lots of games into these talented kids is a good thing. They will not break, you're going way over the top re "flogging". They need to be developed and won't deliver instant results but we don't need them to do. Doesn't mean we have to hide them away in the 2's.

On Griffiths - he doesn't have to be rushed with his injuries and he won't be. He's not needed to play 22 games next year. He's behind Riewoldt, Post, Vickery, etc as it is in terms of development. He will come in here or there, probably play 5-10 games and that's about it. There is absolutely no need for Miller to be insurance.
 
Look, i respect where you're coming from Barnzy but you really need to understand that both Polak and now Miller are coming to the club as mature age rookies. Mature age. Dunno how else I can put it. They can't deny a kid a spot because a kid can't take that spot. Can you understand this?

We'll have to wait and see what the club does with Post and Vickery, both can become very good players. Just based on where we saw Post played last three rounds (ruck/forward) and the pretty good job he did, I'm predicting the Ryder mould. Hardwick has said Vickery will move forward so I agree with you he'll be there, just don't predict him there in the long term.

Davis, Hurley, Stratton, Astbury are all very good examples however there is less punishment received down back and, in order of team those players received Bock, Fletcher, Brown and Moore as hard, experience bodies in defence just to name one from each team. They are being backed up, I'm not necessarily subscribing to the idea our players will be 'flogged' and ruined, I'm using it more figuratively in that playing Vickery as a 1st and then 2nd year player in the ruck as one example is not the way to develop a player. He plays scared, as does Griffiths, and Rance and Post have almost zero confidence. That is not successful development. You need hard bodies. Miller will cost us nothing, will deny no kid a spot, will cost us next to nothing, did i mention he literally cannot take up a kid's spot? and will help the confidence and development of the youngsters. Cool?
 

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Tiger_Stripes said:
They can't deny a kid a spot because a kid can't take that spot. Can you understand this?
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May not deny a kid a spot on the list, but he may prevent a kid from getting gametime/experience.

A lot will depend on how he is used ("what his role is") and what he brings to the table in terms of non-playing factors.
 
Thought we were going to be dud free for the first time I could remember going into next season. But NO. Miller, Grigg and Houli will get games next year. I bet they average 15 games each. I haven't liked what I've seen from Grigg :thumbsdown:
 
Tiger_Stripes said:
Look, i respect where you're coming from Barnzy but you really need to understand that both Polak and now Miller are coming to the club as mature age rookies. Mature age. Dunno how else I can put it. They can't deny a kid a spot because a kid can't take that spot. Can you understand this?

We'll have to wait and see what the club does with Post and Vickery, both can become very good players. Just based on where we saw Post played last three rounds (ruck/forward) and the pretty good job he did, I'm predicting the Ryder mould. Hardwick has said Vickery will move forward so I agree with you he'll be there, just don't predict him there in the long term.

Davis, Hurley, Stratton, Astbury are all very good examples however there is less punishment received down back and, in order of team those players received Bock, Fletcher, Brown and Moore as hard, experience bodies in defence just to name one from each team. They are being backed up, I'm not necessarily subscribing to the idea our players will be 'flogged' and ruined, I'm using it more figuratively in that playing Vickery as a 1st and then 2nd year player in the ruck as one example is not the way to develop a player. He plays scared, as does Griffiths, and Rance and Post have almost zero confidence. That is not successful development. You need hard bodies. Miller will cost us nothing, will deny no kid a spot, will cost us next to nothing, did i mention he literally cannot take up a kid's spot? and will help the confidence and development of the youngsters. Cool?
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No thats in english and it doesnt fit with his pick the kids agenda.
 
If he's being selected as nothing other than a back up then it shouldn't cause any problems, he's a very good VFL player which constantly put pressure on players to perform at AFL level and that did seem to have a positive effect with our group.

Excellent trainer on the track and will protect the young players in the VFL, did this with our young players in the VFL when they started copping at bit of rough treatment Miller flattened them.

Remember he's not being selected as a first choice player, but a last resort type thing.

It's a good pickup if he's not playing at AFL level.
 
Innovation methinks.
Miller after he finishes will become an assistant coach yes?
This is basically picking him up to be an extra coach, possibly giving him time to prove himself as one, and even better as he is able to do it on the field in Coburg - where we develop the kids. It fits with Hardwick's plan, and he's not clogging up the list - we have no need for mature age rookies.
I highly doubt he will play for the seniors. Do you really think they are that blind? Why else would he be picked up? I really like the idea, and its basically having another coach around.

Why are we stuck in the mindset that a players only input into a club is their onfield performance?
We have no need for mature aged rookies. He is not taking up a spot. So we are using the mature aged rookie as more of a mentoring/coaching role.
 
T4P said:
Innovation methinks.
Miller after he finishes will become an assistant coach yes?
This is basically picking him up to be an extra coach, possibly giving him time to prove himself as one, and even better as he is able to do it on the field in Coburg - where we develop the kids. It fits with Hardwick's plan, and he's not clogging up the list - we have no need for mature age rookies.
I highly doubt he will play for the seniors. Do you really think they are that blind? Why else would he be picked up? I really like the idea, and its basically having another coach around.

Why are we stuck in the mindset that a players only input into a club is their onfield performance?
We have no need for mature aged rookies. He is not taking up a spot. So we are using the mature aged rookie as more of a mentoring/coaching role.
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So why not just give him an off field role then :cool:
 
T4P said:
We have no need for mature aged rookies. He is not taking up a spot. So we are using the mature aged rookie as more of a mentoring/coaching role.
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How do you figure that we don't need mature aged rookies? There are dozens of great prospects available that we could take as mature-aged rookies, players who would not only contribute to our lineup, but continue improving and become genuine AFL players.
 
People are over-reacting to this situation. So the worst case scenario is that we waste a rookie pick that could be used on a player who becomes the cornerstone of a premiership team? If someone is a good enough prospect, then we can easily use an earlier ND/rookie pick on them. If we're relying on our last mature aged rookie pick to be a premiership player for us then we have no hope.

The benefits of drafting Brad Miller far outweigh the negatives. Does anyone actually expect him to play? I don't. If he works his backside off and deserves a game then good on him, and I'd support any Tigers player who deserves a spot, because there have plenty that haven't over the last few seasons.

At the very least, he's a good role model and sets a positive example of how to go about things on the track, and lets be honest, we need as many of those as we can get.

After last years drafting, who can criticise anything that CC, FJ and co are doing? Although it should be said, as far as I'm aware, no actual decision has been made regarding Miller...
 
You never know, he might become our Leigh Brown... Not a bad idea to have hom there as back up. At worst, at least his girl friend is hot.
 

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