Mitch McGovern 2: As The Worm Turns (read the OP)

[Johnny Rutten]

That's exactly what would have happened ......it was between us and West Coast, Sydney played us against each other .....I like the aggression the Crows have taken

Fair enough. I'm still (in principle) against the giving away of pick 40, but clearly the trade wouldn't have happened without it. Don't sweat the small (to medium) stuff... just need to keep telling myself.

 

[GROTTO]

Yes not Reids fault Birdbrain destroyed our season.

It would be interesting which Club has excelled at drafting over the past few years given their draft picks.

Any f**kwit can pick gems with decent picks especially with Pick 1, as SOS has proven.

 

[Shaz2012]

Oh is there generational SA talent in the next 2 drafts?

Have we drafted a generational SA talent this draft? I must have missed that part. Like I said, time will tell if it was worth taking a loss on this particular trade. Hopefully this move works out and leads to either Luko or Rankine. They are the only generational talents on offer. Rozee will be very good, but not worth trading two picks under 21 for.

If it does work out that way then I will eat my words. Especially if the deal to get them is done early and beats Port to the punch. But otherwise, I maintain that there was no need to cave. We should have held the line and been willing to walk away.

As a club we seem to have no strategy. Are we going for a flag and spending 2 firsts on Gibbs, while giving Sloane a ridiculous 5 year deal even though he can't break a tag. Not looking to take value on a mature Lynch. Ok, I can be on board with this. Lets do it. If so, I'd much rather have Gov next year than some 18 year old at pick 13 who wont be first team ready until 2021.

OR, are we going to optimize our list and get as much talent as we can to compliment the core of players like Laird and the Crouch boys. Ok, I can be on board with this too. So why the **** did we pay 2 firsts for Gibbs and why did we give Sloane that contract that his performances over the past 18 months haven't warranted.

I am a flexible fan. I can be on board for different ways forward. I am ready to back the club in. But they are doing contradictory things and taking us around in circles. The decision to spend two picks on Gibbs and the decision to trade out Gov for an 18 year old mid 1st round kid are completely counter productive to one another. The fact that we did both of these with the same club, and lost both trades, just pisses me off. I will get over it, but excuse me for not praising the club for their genius just yet.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Strange, many of the independent voices seem to be suggesting that the deal favoured the Crows?

I don't like it much, but its hard to get to pissed when most people are suggesting otherwise.

It was a great deal !! .....you're right though, it was much better than almost all commentators and the footy world expected us to get

Carlton supporters saying ....a 2nd (26) plus McAdam was enough

 

[spexau]

Have we drafted a generational SA talent this draft? I must have missed that part. Like I said, time will tell if it was worth taking a loss on this particular trade. Hopefully this move works out and leads to either Luko or Rankine. They are the only generational talents on offer. Rozee will be very good, but not worth trading two picks under 21 for.

If it does work out that way then I will eat my words. Especially if the deal to get them is done early and beats Port to the punch. But otherwise, I maintain that there was no need to cave. We should have held the line and been willing to walk away.

As a club we seem to have no strategy. Are we going for a flag and spending 2 firsts on Gibbs, while giving Sloane a ridiculous 5 year deal even though he can't break a tag. Not looking to take value on a mature Lynch. Ok, I can be on board with this. Lets do it. If so, I'd much rather have Gov next year than some 18 year old at pick 13 who wont be first team ready until 2021.

OR, are we going to optimize our list and get as much talent as we can to compliment the core of players like Laird and the Crouch boys. Ok, I can be on board with this too. So why the **** did we pay 2 firsts for Gibbs and why did we give Sloane that contract that his performances over the past 18 months haven't warranted.

I am a flexible fan. I can be on board for different ways forward. I am ready to back the club in. But they are doing contradictory things and taking us around in circles. The decision to spend two picks on Gibbs and the decision to trade out Gov for an 18 year old mid 1st round kid are completely counter productive to one another. The fact that we did both of these with the same club, and lost both trades, just pisses me off. I will get over it, but excuse me for not praising the club for their genius just yet.

Not yet but it's up for grabs is the point.

 

[F_therest]

No one here thinks we got shafted.

The deal was about even.

If anything I would rather have kept Gov, but too much bad blood has passed now for that to have had happen.

Eh same on both boards.

I see some level headed supporters understanding the situation and realising overall it was a pretty fair trade...and then others going off their nut that Reid was weak and folded.

Our board also has those that thinks we grossly overpaid and that SOS folded...

People too caught up on squeezing everything and 'winning' each individual trade, railroading the other team in the process, instead of looking at the overall picture - including the # of picks you already have this year and your list situation.

And people using the point index regarding the 2 x 2nd rounders & 40 for 13 really have no clue. The points systems is for a specific purpose and just because it said 26 and 28 is worth pick 10 doesn't mean you got shafted...higher picks have a much higher premium and steeper curve in reality.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Fair enough. I'm still (in principle) against the giving away of pick 40, but clearly the trade wouldn't have happened without it. Don't sweat the small (to medium) stuff... just need to keep telling myself.

If Sydney give #13 to West Coast ....what were our other options ?? #11 went to Port, Geelong at #12??

 

[Bicks]

Who gave that pick, Carlton or us, basically was who wanted Sydney's pick the most ......Carlton arguably would have been giving too much for McGovern ''

Now posters want the club to be aggressive .....sometimes that's negotiating hard to get the best deal ...sometimes that's seeing the pick or player and just getting the deal done !

Are you happy with the outcome ? ....cause I am

Will you be happy if we use that #13 to get into the top 6 of the Draft ....cause I am

Drastic times, call for drastic measures

And even if that doesn't eventuate there is going to be some very, very good talent still available to select from with that pick.

 

[GROTTO]

Eh same on both boards.

I see some level headed supporters understanding the situation and realising overall it was a pretty fair trade...and then others going off their nut that Reid was weak and folded.

Our board also has those that thinks we grossly overpaid and that SOS folded...

People too caught up on squeezing everything and 'winning' each individual trade, railroading the other team in the process, instead of looking at the overall picture - including the # of picks you already have this year and your list situation.

And people using the point index regarding the 2 x 2nd rounders & 40 for 13 really have no clue. The points systems is for a specific purpose and just because it said 26 and 28 is worth pick 10 doesn't mean you got shafted...higher picks have a much higher premium and steeper curve in reality.

Just curious, how much is Gov being paid and what players on your list are paid a similar amount?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Eh same on both boards.

I see some level headed supporters understanding the situation and realising overall it was a pretty fair trade...and then others going off their nut that Reid was weak and folded.

Our board also has those that thinks we grossly overpaid and that SOS folded...

People too caught up on squeezing everything and 'winning' each individual trade, railroading the other team in the process, instead of looking at the overall picture - including the # of picks you already have this year and your list situation.

And people using the point index regarding the 2 x 2nd rounders & 40 for 13 really have no clue. The points systems is for a specific purpose and just because it said 26 and 28 is worth pick 10 doesn't mean you got shafted...higher picks have a much higher premium and steeper curve in reality.

Realistically you paid #26 & #28 (forget McAdam) .....think you'll say in 2 years, that was a cheap buy

 

[WaynesWorld19]

And even if that doesn't eventuate there is going to be some very, very good talent still available to select from with that pick.

Totally Agree .....even at our #21, we'll get a very good player

 

[GROTTO]

It was a great deal !! .....you're right though, it was much better than almost all commentators and the footy world expected us to get

Carlton supporters saying ....a 2nd (26) plus McAdam was enough

I hope the steak knives, ie McAdam bites the Blues in the arse. It will be interesting to see what kind of player he becomes for us.

 

[GROTTO]

Realistically you paid #26 & #28 (forget McAdam) .....think you'll say in 2 years, that was a cheap buy

I get the feeling though if SOS had pick 13 he wouldnt want to have parted with it.

The fact that picks 26 and 28 got converted to 13 is what made the deal go through.

 

[fabs33]

If there's one thing I've learnt from the last couple of trade periods, it's to avoid players managed by Colin Young.

 

[GrommoT]

Do we know this as a fact, or is it yet more speculation? Again I don't know where we rated him. Maybe we are one of the clubs that had him inside out top 20. I am not saying that we did but no one can claim definitively that we didn't either.

All year the club has been saying that they would like to add more pace to the list. We lost Cameron practically on the last day of trade week last year. We had Hampton retire. Thats is two players that we have lost with pace from the list. Despite popular opinion we have not replaced Charlie Cameron adequately as teh drop off in pace, defensive pressure inside 50 and the line breaking speed was pretty evident this year. McAdam has the attributes to fill that need. Based on the picks that we have at disposal, it is not far fetched to believe that we just might have used pick 21 on McAdam if he was still there.

Reid's comments about expecting McAdam to play AFL next season after a good pre-season indicates to me that we rate the kid pretty highly as does watching his every game this year. More things add up to us rating him pretty highly in our draft order than what some are presenting.

Ok, I should have added an IMO there - I usually have a Probably somewhere in my posts

Spoiler

 

[hey shorty]

With 2 years left on his contract Gov was worth more than pick 13 on his own. We still had the option of trading him next year, or the year after.

We gave back a 3rd rounder for 13. SOS got Gov for a 2nd and a swap of a 2nd for a 3rd. He easily wins that.

SOS 2 - Reid 0

Edit: Actually, its SOS 3 - Reid 0, because if we were going to turn around and do the deal a year later, and waste a year of Gibbs career, in a year where we make the GF, and let Gibbs stick around to help Carlton develop their youngsters for an extra 12 months, then certainly SOS wins the round in 2016 as well, simply by walking away. That is what Reid should have done with this deal.

We had the option, but he loses value in that next year.

We got 13 for a player most rated in between 10-15, and we got McAdam for 40 when we rated him inside 25.

At very worst its break even, but IMO we win that trade.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I hope the steak knives, ie McAdam bites the Blues in the arse. It will be interesting to see what kind of player he becomes for us.

IMO definitely not steak knives ......He'll have a Liam Ryan like impact next year, as long as he can get fit & stay uninjured

This is a challenge to Haas .....not to stuff him

 

[WaynesWorld19]

If there's one thing I've learnt from the last couple of trade periods, it's to avoid players managed by Colin Young.

Or Connors

 

[hey shorty]

Have we drafted a generational SA talent this draft? I must have missed that part. Like I said, time will tell if it was worth taking a loss on this particular trade. Hopefully this move works out and leads to either Luko or Rankine. They are the only generational talents on offer. Rozee will be very good, but not worth trading two picks under 21 for.

If it does work out that way then I will eat my words. Especially if the deal to get them is done early and beats Port to the punch. But otherwise, I maintain that there was no need to cave. We should have held the line and been willing to walk away.

As a club we seem to have no strategy. Are we going for a flag and spending 2 firsts on Gibbs, while giving Sloane a ridiculous 5 year deal even though he can't break a tag. Not looking to take value on a mature Lynch. Ok, I can be on board with this. Lets do it. If so, I'd much rather have Gov next year than some 18 year old at pick 13 who wont be first team ready until 2021.

OR, are we going to optimize our list and get as much talent as we can to compliment the core of players like Laird and the Crouch boys. Ok, I can be on board with this too. So why the **** did we pay 2 firsts for Gibbs and why did we give Sloane that contract that his performances over the past 18 months haven't warranted.

I am a flexible fan. I can be on board for different ways forward. I am ready to back the club in. But they are doing contradictory things and taking us around in circles. The decision to spend two picks on Gibbs and the decision to trade out Gov for an 18 year old mid 1st round kid are completely counter productive to one another. The fact that we did both of these with the same club, and lost both trades, just pisses me off. I will get over it, but excuse me for not praising the club for their genius just yet.

Sloane was one of few guys in our squad I WOULD give a 5 year deal to.

 

[GROTTO]

IMO definitely not steak knives ......He'll have a Liam Ryan like impact next year, as long as he can get fit & stay uninjured

This is a challenge to Haas .....not to stuff him

Is McAdam that kind of player?

Thats something to be excited about.

"Flying Ryan" did some great things at the Eagles last year, aside from taking a "lazy contested mark" that basically led them to winning the flag .
(by kicking to Sheed).

 

[Jeffcrowe]

IMO definitely not steak knives ......He'll have a Liam Ryan like impact next year, as long as he can get fit & stay uninjured

This is a challenge to Haas .....not to stuff him

Just remember that Liam Ryan kicked 70+ goals in the WAFL last year

McAdam will be a good role player for us and add a bit of what we need but even though his game style might be similar to Liam Ryan I’m not expecting that level

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Is McAdam that kind of player?

Thats something to be excited about.

"Flying Ryan" did some great things at the Eagles last year, aside from taking a "lazy contested mark" that basically led them to winning the flag .
(by kicking to Sheed).

He has a similar vertical leap , good overhead and some top end speed

Liam Ryan was coming off 70+ WAFL goals however which is another level

 

[GROTTO]

It just occurred to me, is there anything really stopping any player from getting a big 5 year contract and getting paid massively upfront and then leaving the Club in the last two years?

Worst case scenario is they sit out a year and become a deregistered FA after the year out?

 

[hey shorty]

Is McAdam that kind of player?

Thats something to be excited about.

"Flying Ryan" did some great things at the Eagles last year, aside from taking a "lazy contested mark" that basically led them to winning the flag .
(by kicking to Sheed).

Similar yeah.

His issue is consistently, bit like Gov. He will rip a quarter to pieces but fades in and out. Fitness will definitely need to improve.

 

[Golumless]

I'm not anti Murphy, but Cameron is the yardstick.
We need to get back to those levels in terms of pressure or perceived pressure and goal kicking.
Our back line is capable but we need to upgrade our midfield and forward line.
Murphy is a trier but undoubtedly small and if we are going to improve he either has to elevate his game a lot or someone more effective takes his place. Improvement has to come somewhere!
I'm not doubting his big heart.

Offensively - Murphy isn't far off Cameron at this point of time, but outside of raw speed that wasn't something Cameron really offered us in a great deal (1.1 goals to 1.2, 0.2 to 0.7 goal assists, and 3.4 SI to 5.3 in a much worse side)

Defensively however Cameron is the yard stick as he has one if not the strongest defensive game from the current smalls. There are two choices to covering it - either find someone similar (and McAdams has a shot at being due to his electric pace) or change it up structurally by removing a 4th tall. Both would probably be ideal in this case.

He is only a 1st year player so it's expected that his game will go up from here. Equally never underrate someone with a big heart. Stengle/McAdams have a hell of a fight on their hands if it comes down to them v Murphy for the final spot.