Review Monday's Expert - Adelaide vs Geelong

[WaynesWorld19]

When rebuilding a side, every coach says the same thing, you start with defence first then build from there.

Until we get our team defence right, the rest is irrelevant.

You see ...this is wrong ...your assumption is the team defense is the faulty zone

However 44 inside 50's to Adelaide versus 61 to Geelong suggests our midfield:
a) cannot get the ball inside our forward 50 often enough
b) we can't stop the opposition from delivering without much pressure into their forward 50

I defy any defensive group to stand up against that barage

QUESTION:
Would you regard the Sydney Swans as having the best midfield, with the best hardball get midfielders .....Parker, Kennedy, Tom Mitchell, and Kieran Jack????

Well ....Sydney leads the AFL in inside 50's ......63 average

Adelaide ....51 average
Geelong ......58
Bulldogs ......59

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Solid write up Carl. On the switch issue, I've noticed that oppositions have worked out they need to cut off our diagonal passing options into the corridor. This has led to the long slow loopy switches.

We've also stopped running through defensive zones with aggressive handball, and have fallen back into a kicking mode. As you rightly point out, this is doomed to fail due to lack of appropriate personnel. I hope this is a break down of game plan, rather than a change in approach. A break down can be fixed with drills, a shit system is still shit if carried out to the letter.

Great analysis on Thommo... I think we've all sensed something wrong, but you've quantitied it beautifully.

great point .......our run has stopped

Instead of handballing thru a zone, now we're trying to kick .....but opposition sides are trying to deny us the short kick .....we're going backwards and switching more, which is slowing down our ball movement

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Ex-Crows coaches are a goldmine for this sort of stuff.
"Do you know what our team would look like at the moment without Thompson?"
"You try telling Thompson he's not playing."

Unfortunately over the last 3 years ......despite recognizing that Thommo is coming to the end of his career ......if Thommo plays well, we play well .....if Thommo plays poorly we play poorly .....problem is, it's a fact

Sorry to say, ATS we can't afford to rest Thommo

 

[Tex200]

Unfortunately over the last 3 years ......despite recognizing that Thommo is coming to the end of his career ......if Thommo plays well, we play well .....if Thommo plays poorly we play poorly .....problem is, it's a fact

Sorry to say, ATS we can't afford to rest Thommo

Against GCS? Of course we can.

Are you forgetting the first couple of rounds last year?

 

[1970crow]

Unfortunately over the last 3 years ......despite recognizing that Thommo is coming to the end of his career ......if Thommo plays well, we play well .....if Thommo plays poorly we play poorly .....problem is, it's a fact

Sorry to say, ATS we can't afford to rest Thommo

Our 2 best midfield games last year were when Thommo was returning via the SANFL. The problem is unlikely to be that we can't win without him but more that we can't win while he's playing poorly and standing under Sauces hand for most of the match. Either way, he needs a rest and he 100% won't be around next year, so it's high time we found out for sure with the added bonus of freshening him up.

 

[Red mist]

Still, gotta admire him for plugging away. I'd be amazed if we went in without a change given how many inside 50's and scoring shots we've conceded 2 weeks on the trot. Perhaps the SANFL bye works against a change but we've heard how fatigued the big game players are so a couple of freshies should be exactly what the doctor orders.

You haven't had a most likely outcome right all year

Involved.

 

[BunjiMac]

You see ...this is wrong ...your assumption is the team defense is the faulty zone

However 44 inside 50's to Adelaide versus 61 to Geelong suggests our midfield:
a) cannot get the ball inside our forward 50 often enough
b) we can't stop the opposition from delivering without much pressure into their forward 50

I defy any defensive group to stand up against that barage

QUESTION:
Would you regard the Sydney Swans as having the best midfield, with the best hardball get midfielders .....Parker, Kennedy, Tom Mitchell, and Kieran Jack????

Well ....Sydney leads the AFL in inside 50's ......63 average

Adelaide ....51 average
Geelong ......58
Bulldogs ......59

You see ...this is wrong.. Your assumption is that team defense is about the defenders only. If that was what I was trying to say, then I would have said "defense", and not TEAM defense.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Unfortunately over the last 3 years ......despite recognizing that Thommo is coming to the end of his career ......if Thommo plays well, we play well .....if Thommo plays poorly we play poorly .....problem is, it's a fact

Sorry to say, ATS we can't afford to rest Thommo

It's says that he is given way too much responsibility/opportunity as the primary midfielder when the midfield structure and personnel should be far more diversified to protect against his poor days.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Against GCS? Of course we can.

Are you forgetting the first couple of rounds last year?

If Thommo has simply had two bad games. you play him .....if he's sore, you rest him

 

[Vader]

The opposite is true. A repeat entry has a higher probability of catching the defense out of position. For reference, watch Friday nights game

Depends on the first possession outside the 50m arc. If the attacking team wins, the defenders are usually still in place.

If the defending team wins, then most players will stream forward. A turnover after that happens is lethal.

 

[Vader]

Interesting viewpoint. I would have selected an away game against a GC side on their knees as the ideal week to rest an aged warrior. But you think it's not the right week, can you explain why? Is it the idea of an easy kill for Thommo that excites you?

I just don't see them resting him this early in the season. Nothing to do with having an easy kill.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I just don't see them resting him this early in the season. Nothing to do with having an easy kill.

I can't either UNLESS he's sore .....the club would be planning around the bye rounds

ATM we need some midfield cohesion .....not throwing everything in the air, how does that help ?

Just don't think ATM Douglas is a critical component of that midfield ? .....in a lot of games this year i have struggled to even know whether he's playing ...such is the little impact he's having

 

[Vader]

I can't either UNLESS he's sore .....the club would be planning around the bye rounds

ATM we need some midfield cohesion .....not throwing everything in the air, how does that help ?

Just don't think ATM Douglas is a critical component of that midfield ? .....in a lot of games this year i have struggled to even know whether he's playing ...such is the little impact he's having

Agreed. Different story if he's carrying an injury.

 

[Murray2503]

Good analysis but it can be summed up with players that need to be dropped. Seedsman, Cheney, Milera and Thommo need to be dropped and replaced with Laird, Knight, CEY and Lyons.
Players that need to be delisted or traded end of year: vb, thommo, cheney, hartigan, henderson, jaensch obviously, sam shaw, mitch grigg, beech, jake kelly, luke lowden, otten, hunter.
Players we need to get games into this year: Knight, CEY, Lyons, McGovern, Milera (dry grounds, bottom teams) B Crouch

Free agency:
Need key back (Hurley type)
Key Ruck (Jacobs on decline, need mobile ruck ala Zac Smith, Mumford
Need key fielders that can win ball on the inside who have pace either through draft or free agency trade (omeara, prestia type)
Players much have a massive focus on tackling, kicking efficiency and decision making which is still poor.

 

[LC40]

Good analysis but it can be summed up with players that need to be dropped. Seedsman, Cheney, Milera and Thommo need to be dropped and replaced with Laird, Knight, CEY and Lyons.
Players that need to be delisted or traded end of year: vb, thommo, cheney, hartigan, henderson, jaensch obviously, sam shaw, mitch grigg, beech, jake kelly, luke lowden, otten, hunter.
Players we need to get games into this year: Knight, CEY, Lyons, McGovern, Milera (dry grounds, bottom teams) B Crouch

Free agency:
Need key back (Hurley type)
Key Ruck (Jacobs on decline, need mobile ruck ala Zac Smith, Mumford
Need key fielders that can win ball on the inside who have pace either through draft or free agency trade (omeara, prestia type)
Players much have a massive focus on tackling, kicking efficiency and decision making which is still poor.

Hartigan will not be traded at years end otherwise your list is around the mark.

I would love to see Beech upgraded myself.

Jacobs just needs a partner in the team to take some of the workload off him.

The trouble with Adelaide (the city) is that we aren't the first option for most footballers in high demand.
Most of the so called A grade names want to play in Mebourne; the ones we seem to sign readily are blokes looking for a second chance or more opportunity. eg Jenkins, Seedsman, Cheney, Lowden.

We do sign the occassional player wanting to move back home but there aren't that many and we often get in a bidding war with Port over them.
Our supporters also have a tendency to suggest grabbing any South Australian that is out of contract even when their performance and numbers are average or their position on the field is not a high priority for us.
Some posters also believe our coaching staff has this unique ability to turn under performers from other clubs into stars, so they'll be urged as potential trades with the tagline... high risk high reward.

 

[GreyCrow]

Some posters also believe turning over half our list and bringing in new faces will dramatically change our fortunes

 

[Mismatched]

If Thommo has simply had two bad games. you play him .....if he's sore, you rest him

Of course, I think you'll find most posters are looking at his first 6 games, which were hi quality, then comparing them to his last 2 games which have been decidedly average, and suggesting that he is either a) suffering from an injury, or b) suffering from general fatigue, which in an aging player who plays a high energy, bash and crash position is highly likely. Most players are able to push through this, but as a player ages , it gets harder to pull up each week for a game, hence we need to be more alert to Thommo needing a rest than perhaps Sloane. The club will have all the medical data, all his GPS and KPI numbers and will be able to best make that assessment.

 

[6BTS]

1. Brad Crouch
   Was able to get some of the ball, but his disposal let him down all night to the point where he became a liability to our team every time he would kick the ball, turning it over alot. Disappointing effort, he may be coming back from injury, but to butcher the ball so badly all night, maybe he's not up to the standard right this moment.
2. 
   Josh Jenkins
   I mean, I didn't mind Jenkins' game, I thought he did well with the chances he got, although he didn't have many for the night. Some of this has to be contributed to the lack of time the ball went down the forward line. I'd almost think you need to throw him into the ruck in games like that and see if he can contribute something out of the centre, maybe be the difference between pulling a win out from a bad position. Hasn't lost any form from that outing. Is becoming a very impressive player for our club, it's a pity he has very few passengers going along for the same ride in form. Eddie Betts hasn't lost anything. I mean, our forward line wasn't to blame for that loss, it's as simple as that. We have such an amazing forward line that despite how badly beaten we are from the opposition, our forwards will always make an impact on the scoreboard. I go as far to say as this is the best forward we have ever had in our history. Daniel Menzel is sitting in the SANFL because of this forward line, and Jenkins is a massive reason this is the case. So despite the fact that he didn't do much on the night, he was still very good when he did get his chances. Hopefully we can come to terms with him that doesn't miss us the chance for a start midfield recruit for next year. Very important to this team at the moment.
3. 
   Scott Thompson
   There's no nice way to say it, but he's looking old. The increase in form he had since he hit his thirties is now wavering due to his legs wavering. Seems to panic when others are searching for an option, there are more skill errors than we're used to from him these days and the pressure might be too much for him. Unless he gets a second wind throughout the season, he might be cooked. It will be interesting to see how much of an impact he will make in this stretch towards the bye. A midfield veteran who is definitely not the worst culprit we have in the midfield.
4. 
   Jake Lever
   This kid... I mean, I want to just scream, but I also keep reminding myself that he's playing a KP role, which means he's one of the more slower and less agile players on the ground. His awareness is very good, he's willing to do the hard stuff that isn't really noticed by fans, like securing the ball while being tackled, making sure he can give his team a 50/50 from that contest, but his disposal is really letting him down at the present. Makes the right decisions, but current skills can't execute to the level of his thinking. Just remember, it's only his second year and the defence has been under the pump for the last 2 games and both games, we had a chance to win if the midfield could just step up and compete. They were not the reason we lost the game, but i'm sure they would be desperate to get better and would feel they weren't as good as they could have been. This is okay, when Laird comes back in, he's going to stabilise our defence while also improving our defence-to-offence. In other words, he's a very important player to the team. We can't afford to lose any of our defenders, let alone Laird who is averaging close to 30 touches a game and is in just as good form as last year. Talia and Laird are probably our 2 most important defenders. That's not to say Hartigan and Lever and Brown aren't important, it's just Talia and Laird are the 2 most important, as is seen with our performances since Laird has been out of the team.
5. 
   Rory Sloane
   We are very lucky to have this guy. He is definitely not the reason we lost, putting in one of his best seasons so far, he would be my favourite to be leading the Best and Fairest. Thankfully he's not a flight risk, he's the reason this is not the worst midfield in the competition. Not his absolute best performance, but even that wouldn't have made much different on the night.
6. 
   Paul Seedsman
   Well, I'm confused with this kid. He's everything the Collingwood fans were telling us he would be and by that I mean hot and cold. His defencive effort can be very weak, I'll have to wait and see him give some strong efforts to be convinced he's capable of defending to a level that is needed by the team. Or he might just be the kind of guy that is either switched on or switched off. He has talent, but I don't know how much of what he has is raw talent over luck, the jury is still out with me on this one. The thing about this guy is that he would have nailed that shot in front of goal if he had been playing a good game, so it's not like he can't kick that goal, I think he's mentally fragile. He better fix that up quick smart otherwise Pyke might look elsewhere for a wingman/defender.
7. 
   Daniel Talia
   Was beaten a couple times by Man-Child (Hawkins), which is understandable. Despite Man-Child's ability when kicking for goal, he is a beast when it comes to contested marking. He didn't have his colours lowered in the end, Talia does and always gives us something in defence every week. It's guys like Talia that show how good our recruiting department is (despite me having some reservations about some of decisions they make), this guy is a rock for us every week. May not always beat his man one-on-one, but his man never has a blinder and most the times he gets the better of his direct opponent. Very much needed piece in any football team. He can keep his head up.
8. 
   Taylor Walker
   Not quite clicking yet for Tex, but you can see it's not far away. Also, the ball was hardly down the forward line. It's hard to blame the forwards for not making enough impact when the ball is only coming down one third of the time. He started the game really well, but he's not a one man show, he is not good enough, and neither is anyone good enough (maybe buddy), to win a game off their own boot while the midfield is getting slaughtered all night. I've heard some people calling to drop him which is the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard. He's the captain that led us through that exciting first month of football. He's kicked 14 goals or 1.8 goals a game, so despite being injured and not being able to train much, he's almost giving us 2 goals a game and taking the best defender... And some people want to drop him from the most potent forward line in the competition that he is the most important player of. Okay, despite the fact that Tex hasn't managed to win us a game of football off his own boot (neither is JJ and he kicked 8 goals in a losing side once) why would you ever want to drop him? Or does he have to win games off his own boot to remain in the team? He is not the reason we lost those game, sure, he can play better, but he has been injured and he's slowly working his way back into full health. Hard to make an impact when the ball is rarely down the forward line. Hard to make an impact if the lads keep turning the ball over before kicking it in your direction. Guys, he's not superman, but he plays a really important roll for us, despite his injury costing him some form, why would you take ANYONE out of that forward line? Why would you want to mess with that chemistry? It's unbelievable to me what cross people's minds.
9. 
   Kyle Hartigan
   Did okay as one of the defenders under constant siege for the last 2 weeks. I'll tell you one thing that Pyke is doing for our team and it's turning these defenders into reliable players. Once they can stop the hemorrhaging coming out of the midfield, this group can form itself into one of the better defences in the competition and nothing has suggested to me otherwise over the last 2 weeks. You can't expect to stop the opposition scoring goals when they win so much of the ball, we turnover so much disposal and they are constantly bombarding our defence. So I think they've held up reasonably well considering they were hung out to dry for several weeks now. Good to see they've got some mental strength otherwise at least one of them would have dropped away by now. Hartigan certainly hasn't dropped away, he's turned into a reliable defender. He wasn't the reason we lost the game.
10. 
    Luke Brown
    This kid is pretty consistent. One of the most amazing thing about this kid is his ball use. And what do I mean by that? I mean he doesn't turn the bloody ball over all the time like some others on the team. This kid is a legitimate AFL footballer and very important to this defence's setup. Made a bit of an amateur error towards the end of the game, but everyone is allowed a couple of mistakes. It's when it goes beyond a couple and become a long list.
11. 
    Eddie Betts
    Tried hard all night. His mind hasn't gone wondering during this bad period we're having. Seems to be a really positive person which can contribute to the team at any time. He has a real desire to keep fighting and keep trying his best even when they're losing. Very impressive despite limited opportunities and tonnes of reasons to go missing on a night like that.
12. 
    Rory Atkins
    There are a couple of lads in the team that need to have a look at how this young kid plays. This kid manages to be composed despite the situation. He just places so much importance on hitting a target or kicking a goal that he is quite efficient in both those areas. He is one kid that we all should be stoked to have because he was one of our better players. He's another great story for our recruiters.
13. 
    Charlie Cameron
    Charlie Camerons looks the real deal. I'm hoping that on top of that performance against a brutal Geelong team, he will carry his form over game to game to game and start to become that exciting midfield player we all hope and wish we had. Places so much importance on his tackling, there are some lads that need to go and learn from him how to tackle because he's making some of his teammates look like B-Grade players when they are trying to tackle. It lifts the team, it helps turn the ball over, everything about it makes sense, but he doesn't seem to have a lot of friends in this department.
14. 
    Sam Jacobs
    Didn't have the greatest of nights. Was serviceable in the Ruck. Seemed to rush his kicks in that last quarter by just throwing it on the boot to get it forward. I don't think any of them came off. He's still a good ruckman and is still competitive enough to be on this team, but the midfield look weak, which I've already a few times now.
15. 
    Kyle Cheney
    I thought he played okay. I especially liked it when he out-marked Dangerfield by cutting off the pass. I think you get what you get with Kyle Cheney and that's a Kyle Cheney effort. It's a good effort, but you'll probably never claim it as being a great effort. It would be good for our defence and our team if we could upgrade in this position. Hopefully Doedee will become that player to take over and be more effective. I'm still not sure what the Crows want to do with Doedee. Maybe they think they can turn him into another Brodie Smith, someone who they can play down in defence and hopefully one day play them through the midfield. Maybe. I don't know. For now, Cheney is an okay option, he can kind of do a job for you, but an upgrade would be better.
16. 
    Richard Douglas
    Unfortunately Dougie has to wear a chunk of the blame for the loss. His game was rather poor and it made no sense why he went missing. He's a lot more capable than the performance he dished up. I'm disappointed in his performance because he can play better than that and we needed him to play better than that. Hopefully it's a one off. Maybe he's fatigued and had an off night because he wasn't 100% physically and mentally. Expect him to bounce back against Gold Coast which is one of the reasons we will beat the Gold Coast. Now we get to cash in on holding the wood over a team for so long. There won't be any heroics from Gold Coast. Not against a team they've never beaten.
17. 
    Tom Lynch
    Was not as damaging as he can be, but was still effective when he did get around it for the most part. Probably was another one who missed out due to the ball being in our defence all night. He was ready to play.
18. 
    Wayne Milera
    Unfortunately it was too much of a big game for young Milera. He did some good things, which is great, it proves that he is a proper footballer the team needs (as in a guy who will execute his roll in the chain of players and disposals it takes to turn defence into offence and not turn the ball over). Obviously he is very young and will slowly grow into a dominant player for us. All signs point that way at the moment. I think our club is professional enough to turn the most talented players into proper superstars and Milera should be no exception to this rule. At present, it's a teething issue which is perfectly understandable for the lad in his first AFL season with a grand total of 5 matches under his bel (5? I think it's 5).
19. 
    Brodie Smith
    Not at his best. He has dropped off a bit since the Hawthorn game. I'm starting to wonder if the loss to Hawthorn had a detrimental affect on the psyche of some of our players. If you buy into a system and you win, it's easier to continue doing what is expected of you. If you buy in to a system, give it everything and grasp defeat in Melbourne to the 3 time premiership winning Hawks from the jaws of victory, that can play games with some people inside their head and I'm wondering if that's why we've been on the decline ever since after that Hawks game. Brodie Smith is a great example of evidence to prove my claim. He's been a little off since the Hawks game, turning the ball over too often and not really making an impact on the game. I think considering how good he has been in the past years, it's really disappointing to see a player of his ilk look like an out of form footballer. Disposal is a really good measuring stick of a players form in my opinion. Brodie's disposal has been below par and the team is suffering from it. Will need to get back on track with the Gold Coast and forget what happened, we all still have a job to do and it starts by winning games and getting into the finals. Needs to reset.
20. 
    Mitch McGovern
    Did some good things. That was a tough night to stand out so not really going to say anything bad about his game. He's very talented and hopefully as the team grows, he'll realise his talent and start to do some real damage to opponents. There's no reason we can't mention all 6 forwards in our damaging forward line. At the moment, it's Tex, JJ, Eddie and Lynch. McGovern can certainly wrestle his way into the list of Adelaide damaging forwards. Not sure how much time it will take, we must all remember he's in his first year of playing AFL football, we shouldn't expect his best this year.
21. 
    Matt Crouch
    He's a bit of a work horse and he's hungry for possession of the ball. It's a shame his disposal lets him down too often. We really need him to step up with his brother. The truth about the Adelaide Crows and their potential can be measured by how well the Crouch brothers are going. We've put the performance meter in their hands. We will fly high when they are on song and we will be bad when they are off their games. It's a bit of a humbling reality when you think of it that way. I know they're only two players, but they are two players we think will turn into our top midfielders. This will take time, if they continue to improve, we might see something special in a few years time, but it won't be now. Now we just have to sit back and hope it clicks for both him and his brother, because without them, we can't beat the Cats or the Hawks or the Roos or the Bulldogs. At least he's playing better than his brother.
22. 
    
23. Ricky Henderson
24. Ricky wasn't spectacular, but considering what some of the lads were doing with their disposal, Ricky was one of the better players on the night. Unfortunately for Ricky, I don't think he gives us enough. I think Otten might have been a better call up, except he got suspended for making contact with an umpire (A stupid umpire that go into his path as he was seething. Should know better than to do that. Otten had just been concussed so his actions were kind of explainable). Still, at least he wasn't butchering possession at the same rate as a bunch of others. We really miss Laird. Please get better soon, Rory, we need you in the team.

 

[Murray2503]

Team unfortanately is out of form since hawks game, but we were never a flag threat this year. Would prefer us to miss 8 so that we get a higher draft pick and easier draw next year. Club needs a good cleanout end of year and need to rebuild for a premiership assault next 3 to 5 years or risk finishing 7 to 12 and going nowhere!

 

[Geoffa32]

I have felt for a long time it is our midfield's lack of defensive ability that hurts us the most. For years now we have allowed teams to hurt us once they win the ball in the middle.

Thus us starting to be more evident given our banking is quite good and our forwards, as a unit, are the best in the comp.

 

[1970crow]

I have felt for a long time it is our midfield's lack of defensive ability that hurts us the most. For years now we have allowed teams to hurt us once they win the ball in the middle.

Thus us starting to be more evident given our banking is quite good and our forwards, as a unit, are the best in the comp.

True. For too long we've looked at stoppage or contested numbers to determine how our midfield is going. Posters here still do it. Where we have always been destroyed is through the arcs in general play where our midfield provides no defensive pressure. The relative quality of our exits from contested areas compared to our opponents is also an issue, but not as big as our red carpet policy of midfield defense in play.

 

[Rear Admiral]

No, we've been worked out, rather quickly, by good coaches.

When we don't win clearances (cleanly), we pretty much rely wholly and solely on Smith and Seedsman to provide drive, and opposition coaches have shut these two out of the game - bigtime. Result? We're down the toilet.

The other big point I've noticed is how smart coaches deal with opposition zoning tactics, particularly when coming out of defence. It's very hard to pinpoint foot passes in a well structured zone, but smart coaches get their players to handball-and-carry their way through zone set-ups. When a team sets up man-on-man all over the paddock, chains of handpasses are a disaster.....you get caught in no time. But handballing works brilliantly through a zone - you just weave your way through the traffic. Time and time again I've seen opposition teams cut through the Crows' zone structures from one of the ground to the other, using handball in their back half....then use kicks once they've cleared the congestion and enter their forward half. Why the f*ck don't we learn from this? When we are faced with a zone, our players look left and right, then typically end up bombing long down the line, where it often gets spoiled and the opposition run it out. Conversely, many of our attempts to switch play result in bent Blunderbuss foot passes that either hit the grass, or an opponent smack on the chest.

The way I look at it, if we can't nail targets by foot through the congestion (not 50m blind bombs), then we need to bl00dy well run and carry it through. We're just doing either.