More clarity on GWS U17yr old trades - featuring the mini-draft

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Danair said:
I find it amusing that supporters from clubs who don't have good draft picks (WC, Freo, lesser extent Hawthron) are complaining about GWS accepting pick 4 or compo picks for Jaeger, they probably thought all year that Jaeger will make it known that he didn't want to leave WA and all they then would have to offer were a bunch of listcloggers (WC Masten, Ebert, Lynch. Freo Johnson, Crowley, Duffield) to get him ("GWS need mature players"... doesn't matter if they're crap:rolleyes:).

Pick 4 (likely Wingard) and possibley a compo pick for next year ("superdraft") is much more valuable then a few fringe players that these clubs and their supporters couldn't care less for.

GWS will get enough mature bodies from prelisting VFL players (Mohr, Saad) and others that have previously nominated for the draft (Kennedy, Brown).
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I think other clubs are going to show their hand closer to the date. Teams with high picks would not normally ever get access to kids with this potential in an open draft. It will be a brave football manager who does a deal like this, of course.

I question the model. So far GWS have:

* well paid kids of moderate accomplishment
* a well paid rugby star
* a clutch of draft picks
* pre listed VFL players
* guys pulled out of retirement or near enough.

And they'd like more draft picks from the same pool? GC's choices may not have all paid off (Krakouer, Brown), but they had leadership and high quality players to help carry the load.
 
morebeer said:
How would you view it if WC had traded away that speculative pick 4 last year for a few years of good service from a senior player? Instead they chose Gaff, who will give them 10+ years of excellent service.

By them having a few extra list cloggers it may only be the difference between a couple of wins over the first few years. GWS are going to suck no matter what. Whereas the drafting of a Gaff type player will continue to pay dividends for a decade.
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That's entirely different though. GWS are compiling a list from scratch, it's not like an established team topping up with one young player.
 
Mattman93 said:
That's entirely different though. GWS are compiling a list from scratch, it's not like an established team topping up with one young player.
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They are taking a long term view though, looking at nearing a flag in 5 years time rather than being competitve early.

In 5 years time what would be the better choice - a Gaff type player or a senior player for a few years?

The thing is, as I said in my last post, is that these senior players are only going to make minimal difference in the short term anyway, they will still get flogged. Therefore the emphasis is on the long term.
 

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morebeer said:
They are taking a long term view though, looking at nearing a flag in 5 years time rather than being competitve early.

In 5 years time what would be the better choice - a Gaff type player or a senior player for a few years?

The thing is, as I said in my last post, is that these senior players are only going to make minimal difference in the short term anyway, they will still get flogged. Therefore the emphasis is on the long term.
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Whether you take a long-term view or a short-term view, you don't want to throw a bunch of kids to the wolves without support, which is what you're proposing.
 
Danair said:
I find it amusing that supporters from clubs who don't have good draft picks (WC, Freo, lesser extent Hawthron) are complaining about GWS accepting pick 4 or compo picks for Jaeger, they probably thought all year that Jaeger will make it known that he didn't want to leave WA and all they then would have to offer were a bunch of listcloggers (WC Masten, Ebert, Lynch. Freo Johnson, Crowley, Duffield) to get him ("GWS need mature players"... doesn't matter if they're crap:rolleyes:).

Pick 4 (likely Wingard) and possibley a compo pick for next year ("superdraft") is much more valuable then a few fringe players that these clubs and their supporters couldn't care less for.

GWS will get enough mature bodies from prelisting VFL players (Mohr, Saad) and others that have previously nominated for the draft (Kennedy, Brown).
Click to expand...
I think the point is though, that they will likely get smashed this year and next if they take this approach.

It will create a raft of negative publicity that you would not believe. That hurts the AFL, GWS chance of growth in the short term as a club and no doubt player development and retention.

Whilst it seems like you are picking up a potential gun, without the very best to learn off and help stabilize the squad, many of these young players could lose confidence or decide to look for greener pastures after a season or two of floggings.
 
gurncentral said:
Whether you take a long-term view or a short-term view, you don't want to throw a bunch of kids to the wolves without support, which is what you're proposing.
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Where did I say that? I am not proposing that at all. I am commenting on whether GWS are better off having pick 4 or a solid player for 3 years.

I believe they should get their solid players by other means, such as trading their non first round draft picks, using the pre listing rules, psd and mature age rookies.
 
morebeer said:
Where did I say that? I am not proposing that at all. I am commenting on whether GWS are better off having pick 4 or a solid player for 3 years.

I believe they should get their solid players by other means, such as trading their non first round draft picks, using the pre listing rules, psd and mature age rookies.
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I think you're underestimating the importance of developing elite juniors into good AFL players. The leadership and experience, not to mention the protection offered by strong bodies and good endurance, offered by even 2nd or 3rd tier experienced players will probably accelerate the development of the elite juniors they are already going to pick.
 
morebeer said:
Where did I say that? I am not proposing that at all. I am commenting on whether GWS are better off having pick 4 or a solid player for 3 years.

I believe they should get their solid players by other means, such as trading their non first round draft picks, using the pre listing rules, psd and mature age rookies.
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3 years? GWS are generally targeting established players of 20-23 yrs of age.
Can't see them changing tack for players that might get put forward for the mini-draft.
 

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liz said:
I think you're underestimating the importance of developing elite juniors into good AFL players. The leadership and experience, not to mention the protection offered by strong bodies and good endurance, offered by even 2nd or 3rd tier experienced players will probably accelerate the development of the elite juniors they are already going to pick.
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I agree that they need the 2nd or 3rd year experienced players to help the kids which is why I covered how to obtain such players in the post you quoted. I just would not choose those 2nd and 3rd tier players over the opportunity to get a superior player with pick 4.
 
Andy D can go f**k himself.

This rule was introduced in an attempt to help build the GWS list by easily obtaining mature bodies to aid their development of their many kids. In this manner, the other 17 teams would also benefit by having access to some of the best young talent they wouldn't otherwise have a chance of aquiring (Saints ;)).

But fu***g Andrew D established the rules so that the two franchise teams could further devour the young talent pool. What an insult to the established teams and the fans, that these two new teams could once again find loopholes in these shitty rules to further disadvantage the existing teams. First they traded the compensation picks in a manner not intended. Now GC and GWS are practically gaining more young talent for nothing. It's a win-win.

I can't believe that these loopholes weren't forseen by Demetriou. Even he's not that much of an idiot, but he is that greedy. AFL is a business first and a sport second. It's a conspiracy i tell ya!
 
If GWS really does want some hardened fringe AFL players they're better off using later picks anyway. A lot of clubs would hand over 2-3 fringe players for pick #13 in this draft, since the later picks are meant to be pretty poor.
 
Icanwalk said:
This rule was introduced in an attempt to help build the GWS list by easily obtaining mature bodies to aid their development of their many kids. In this manner, the other 17 teams would also benefit by having access to some of the best young talent they wouldn't otherwise have a chance of aquiring (Saints ;)).
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Agree with that - it would have been better if these picks could only be traded for players. Maybe it's not too late to change the rule for next year.
 
old55 said:
Agree that sounds like a bargain to me. The O'Meara deal sounds too good for GC also O'Meara + 9 for 4 + mid 1st round compo pick - that values O'Meara at less than 4. Those deals don't sound right.
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He was talking about the Crouch deal I think.
----
But you're right, does favour GC a little. Pick #9 needs to become a late teens/early 20's pick IMO for a fair deal.
 
GiantForce said:
He was talking about the Crouch deal I think.
----
But you're right, does favour GC a little. Pick #9 needs to become a late teens/early 20's pick IMO for a fair deal.
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He was - I agree, and both those deals discussed in the The Age article are heavily weighted against GWS and for GC and the Dogs. Hell I'd give you both Scully picks plus something for O'Meara clean, no picks back.
 

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More clarity on GWS U17yr old trades - featuring the mini-draft

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