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Bigfooty Legend
Which is why you had no need to recruit a bad egg like Barry Hall.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 6 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Mythbuster - Blues will struggle without Fev
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Which is why you had no need to recruit a bad egg like Barry Hall.
There are so many variables here, but common sense and history will tell you Carlton will struggle for some period in at least the short term.
It all depends on how quickly they change their overall game plan and forward functions. Long term, they will be fine you'd think. Henderson should be a fine player. Having been so reliant on Fev, also led to opposition teams working the whole defense around him.
Often, Fev was looked after by 2-3 players, but not only that the whole back lines would work in trying to stop him, interrupt his leading space etc.This will mean the whole Carlton forward line will now each have added difficulty with a more genuine 1-1 environment, without their opponents having one eye on them and the other on position re Fev.
Of course in time they will be less and less predictable, and this will be a good thing.
From an outsider, I see the timing as not ideal for them. The quality of their current other options in Cloke, O'halpain and Fisher is very low. Henderson has only kicked a couple goals in his life - he is still probably 2 years away at best you'd think. Waite is coming off a Knee - I am under no illusions (especially after seeing Daveys season this year) with Hille that we cant expect too much from these guys in their first year back. The other interesting one i find is Kruezer - Carlton fans seem to think they are in a position with Warnock to simply free Kreuzer up - for one Warnock's body does not give any confidence that can be done, and secondly the guy hasnt even played a seasons worth (22) of games in his career yet. To expect him to just come in and take over ruck duties is a little optimistic I would have thought. I think they need Kreuzer in the ruck more than they realise. Not only that, Kruezer's main strength is his athleticism as a ruckman, at ground level and general mobility. Coming up against a lot faster and mobile Key defenders will nullify much of these advantages. He may not be the forward answer it seems.
It may just be a season down, then a rebound. As much of this can change a season later. Waite will be better, Henderson and Warnock another year in the system etc. Next year may be hard, though.
It all depends on how quickly they change their overall game plan and forward functions. Long term, they will be fine you'd think. Henderson should be a fine player. Having been so reliant on Fev, also led to opposition teams working the whole defense around him.
Often, Fev was looked after by 2-3 players, but not only that the whole back lines would work in trying to stop him, interrupt his leading space etc.This will mean the whole Carlton forward line will now each have added difficulty with a more genuine 1-1 environment, without their opponents having one eye on them and the other on position re Fev.
Of course in time they will be less and less predictable, and this will be a good thing.
From an outsider, I see the timing as not ideal for them. The quality of their current other options in Cloke, O'halpain and Fisher is very low. Henderson has only kicked a couple goals in his life - he is still probably 2 years away at best you'd think. Waite is coming off a Knee - I am under no illusions (especially after seeing Daveys season this year) with Hille that we cant expect too much from these guys in their first year back. The other interesting one i find is Kruezer - Carlton fans seem to think they are in a position with Warnock to simply free Kreuzer up - for one Warnock's body does not give any confidence that can be done, and secondly the guy hasnt even played a seasons worth (22) of games in his career yet. To expect him to just come in and take over ruck duties is a little optimistic I would have thought. I think they need Kreuzer in the ruck more than they realise. Not only that, Kruezer's main strength is his athleticism as a ruckman, at ground level and general mobility. Coming up against a lot faster and mobile Key defenders will nullify much of these advantages. He may not be the forward answer it seems.
It may just be a season down, then a rebound. As much of this can change a season later. Waite will be better, Henderson and Warnock another year in the system etc. Next year may be hard, though.
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Did any of these Carlton supporters claiming their forward line will be better now that there is more unpredictability suggest trading Fev before recent events?
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Fevola - 86
Betts - 37
Murphy - 30
Then the next highest is Simpson lol they have no hope at all, just give up now and ill get that spoon you guys seem to love so much.
Betts - 37
Murphy - 30
Then the next highest is Simpson lol they have no hope at all, just give up now and ill get that spoon you guys seem to love so much.
Majinbuu
BF's DB/Z/GT Guru
That's being a tad generous I think. Have you looked at what remains of their forward line?
Cloke to kick 100+ next year
Any team losing it's highest goal scorer will stuggle to replace him unless there are suitable replacements. I think that the below list is in no way capable of replacing Fevola:
Cloke
Kruezer
Waite
O'Hailipin
If however the Blues do get Bradshaw via the PSD, well then they have a ready made replacement with a 60 goals a distinct possiblity.
The Blues will suffer short term from the Fev departure; but long term they will prosper from it. Henderson will be a gun roaming half forward in the Reiwoldt mould
In all reality, Carlton needed to find more avenues to goal with Fev being the target 90% of time - now their hand has been forced.
The defence is a worry too, conceding way too many points per game to be a seriously good team. The rucks are carried by 2 yongsters. The midfield is quality, but if there is no one to finish off their work, well it's pointless.
8 - 12 wins in 2010
You cannot say if Fev kicked 8, that 8 goals gone from our score next year. That is rubbish. Everybody who has watched Carlton knows that he kicks a lot of goals because we go through him all the time. Now alternative targets will be saught and yes they may not be as good as Fev but I reckon instead of a 100% loss of Fev contribution it will be more like 20%- next year. That percentage will decrease steadily as younger players develop in the years to come.
Tranquilli37
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Knowing Carltons luck, theyll get Butcher in the draft. Hell turn out to be a gun from the get go, and all problems will be solved.
Realistically they should struggle, especially earlier on in the season when everything will be uncharted waters for them. If they sort out their dramas, i wouldnt be surprised if they make a late run in the second half of the season and knock off some of the better performing teams.
Realistically they should struggle, especially earlier on in the season when everything will be uncharted waters for them. If they sort out their dramas, i wouldnt be surprised if they make a late run in the second half of the season and knock off some of the better performing teams.
It's a river in Egypt.
i can remember us belting the blues acouple of years back and they only kicked 4 goals all day and fev kicked them all so according to th OP they would have been goalless. That shows you that his presence alone gravitates the oppostion defences towards him and away from other forwards. Now the defences will spread more evenly and dominate the lesser carlton forwards.
I'm not bagging the blues but its going to be interesting to see their stucture up forward.
I'm not bagging the blues but its going to be interesting to see their stucture up forward.
Carlton's window was always going to be 2011 onwards, so I'm personally not all that stressed about next season - it's still all about the continued development of a young list, rather than total number of wins.
But many of you have failed to take note of how the AFL game has evolved in recent years. Quality onballers (and plenty of them) are the the ones winning games for their teams: not the old-fashioned gun full forward.
If a coach is at all capable (and admittedly the jury is still out on Ratts here) a team which can guarantee lots of F50 entries SHOULD be able to construct a forward-line structure that converts enough of these entries into goals.
Entries into the forward 50 have become pretty much THE key indicator for success now. And the way you get those is with a quality (balanced) midfield, and good rebounding defenders.
That's why Geelong has been so dominant. Let's face it, they've absolutely owned the competition with an awesome midfield, an excellent defence, and workmanlike big men up forward. Mooney may have 3 premierships to his name, but in reality he's a modernday Earl Spalding. Tom Hawkins/Nathan Ablett...? Clearly Geelong's dominance hasn't relied on them having A-Grade key forwards. Their smaller forwards have been where the quality lies. But there's no Fev/Buddy/Riewoldt down at the cattery. Not saying Carlton = Geelong (at least not yet) but merely using them as a reference point.
Carlton will be fine. If you watch them every week as I do, you'll know how frustrating it is to see them continually spot up Fev even when he's in the worst position to score. time and time again. stupid football. We got far more inside 50's last year than our scores would indicate, which says that WITH Fevola, we had an inefficient forward setup. At least now this forces the club's hand to actually be less predictable up forward.
The addition of McLean, and continued maturation of Murphy, Gibbs and Joseph (he'll be more than 'just' a tagger soon) and the continued development of a young but improving backline will see MORE, not less, forward 50 entries on average next season, and the season after.
Those who are simplistically thinking that no Fevola means no scoring are merely hoping that will be the case, rather than in any way understanding how the game is actually played now.
BUT it depends on how the team can structure up forward to take advantage of the extra ball coming in. That'll be the ultimate test of the coaching dept... and if we fall down next year and the year after, it'll be through a lack of coaching nous... NOT a lack of one Brendan Fevola.
Personally, I'd expect a few steps backwards in the early part of the season, and improvement in our structures as the season progresses.
Hopefully we make finals again, but our real window is in 2 years time and longer. By which time, Mssrs Kruezer and Henderson will do very nicely as our tall targets up forward. By all accounts, they even listen to (and act upon) the coaches instructions. Good luck with Fev on that score, Vossy.
But many of you have failed to take note of how the AFL game has evolved in recent years. Quality onballers (and plenty of them) are the the ones winning games for their teams: not the old-fashioned gun full forward.
If a coach is at all capable (and admittedly the jury is still out on Ratts here) a team which can guarantee lots of F50 entries SHOULD be able to construct a forward-line structure that converts enough of these entries into goals.
Entries into the forward 50 have become pretty much THE key indicator for success now. And the way you get those is with a quality (balanced) midfield, and good rebounding defenders.
That's why Geelong has been so dominant. Let's face it, they've absolutely owned the competition with an awesome midfield, an excellent defence, and workmanlike big men up forward. Mooney may have 3 premierships to his name, but in reality he's a modernday Earl Spalding. Tom Hawkins/Nathan Ablett...? Clearly Geelong's dominance hasn't relied on them having A-Grade key forwards. Their smaller forwards have been where the quality lies. But there's no Fev/Buddy/Riewoldt down at the cattery. Not saying Carlton = Geelong (at least not yet) but merely using them as a reference point.
Carlton will be fine. If you watch them every week as I do, you'll know how frustrating it is to see them continually spot up Fev even when he's in the worst position to score. time and time again. stupid football. We got far more inside 50's last year than our scores would indicate, which says that WITH Fevola, we had an inefficient forward setup. At least now this forces the club's hand to actually be less predictable up forward.
The addition of McLean, and continued maturation of Murphy, Gibbs and Joseph (he'll be more than 'just' a tagger soon) and the continued development of a young but improving backline will see MORE, not less, forward 50 entries on average next season, and the season after.
Those who are simplistically thinking that no Fevola means no scoring are merely hoping that will be the case, rather than in any way understanding how the game is actually played now.
BUT it depends on how the team can structure up forward to take advantage of the extra ball coming in. That'll be the ultimate test of the coaching dept... and if we fall down next year and the year after, it'll be through a lack of coaching nous... NOT a lack of one Brendan Fevola.
Personally, I'd expect a few steps backwards in the early part of the season, and improvement in our structures as the season progresses.
Hopefully we make finals again, but our real window is in 2 years time and longer. By which time, Mssrs Kruezer and Henderson will do very nicely as our tall targets up forward. By all accounts, they even listen to (and act upon) the coaches instructions. Good luck with Fev on that score, Vossy.
Since the end of 2002 - now, fev has missed pretty sure 9 games... Carlton have won 1.
Myth confirmed as fact.
Myth confirmed as fact.
Wow, let me punch this into a super computer to check your sums first....
...................................
Um, FAIL!
How about the KISS principle.
First three games:
No Fev
No Stevens
No Waite
No JUDD!!!
= No wins!
Because the AFL like handing you guys a pretty easy draw you won't play the Pies, Dons or Hawks so those games will come after round 3and you plays these guys twice a seaon = 6 more losses.
You didn't travel to Subi last season to play the Eagles = 1 more loss.
Brisbane will decimate you next year = 1 more loss.
Swans look like they have reloaded and will become your nemisis again, and hell Richmond will be chomping at the bit to play the Blues without Fev.
I wonder what odds the Blues are to make the 8 in 2010?
You realise that losing 76 goals between 3 players is alot easier to make up than losing 89 via 1 player, right?
We also added a pretty capable goalkicker in Mark Williams.
Fwiw, I think this will ultimately benefit Carlton, I would have much preferred you guys get a good replacement (Bradshaw) and a decent midfielder than a promising KP and pick 12.
I do see you guys struggling a bit next year though, thankfully with GC coming in, you won't be able to load up on picks
From 2002 - 2008, Carlton's win/loss record was so appalling, they probably won 2 out of every 9 games Fevola actually played in. Not sure the 1 from 9 stat proves anything, really.
You realise that losing 76 goals between 3 players is alot easier to make up than losing 89 via 1 player, right?
Why do you say that?
Carlton needs to restructure its forward setup, into one that isn't reliant on a single target. (this is something that needed to be done, regardless of Fev staying or going). Essendon will probably go with the same structure, but needs to find three players who can step into that structure.
Why is one easier or harder than the other? It's not like Carlton is desperately searching for a single player who can kick 90 goals... far from it.
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Surely Cloke will stand up and kick 50 from CHF?
That's exactly why. It's alot harder to restructure a forwardline/gameplan than you're making out.
It's alot easier to find a couple of forwards capable of 30goals a year, than it is to find one capable of 90+
I think we all realise Lloyd/Lucas didn't do a massive amount this year. Hopefully Gumbleton stays fit, we won't know.
Lovett wasn't a forward, though his goals will probably be the hardest to reproduce.
However I really don't want to get this into an Essendon vs Carlton debate, There's no need for it. Hurley
bahahaahaha you neva bagged him out like this before he was traded lol
Yes, isn't it amazing how a lot of Carlton supporters have suddenly realised what other supporters have been telling them for years
i feel a tanking season coming on
The Old Dark Navy's
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^^ True colours revealed.
We need a bit of luck next season, but we have plenty of quality in the side still. An excellent midfield, a sound defence (despite people thinking that losing our CHB and FB last year made no difference) and an athletic ruck combination. We just need someone to stand up as a focal point up forward.
It might not happen for us or we could surprise. One thing is for sure, a popular consensus on BigFooty won't be the deciding factor. The popular vote here is that we were bluffing about trading Fev too. They don't know everything. Time will tell ...
We need a bit of luck next season, but we have plenty of quality in the side still. An excellent midfield, a sound defence (despite people thinking that losing our CHB and FB last year made no difference) and an athletic ruck combination. We just need someone to stand up as a focal point up forward.
It might not happen for us or we could surprise. One thing is for sure, a popular consensus on BigFooty won't be the deciding factor. The popular vote here is that we were bluffing about trading Fev too. They don't know everything. Time will tell ...
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