Nathan Bock

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un_eggs said:
Yep my club was in farcical mode.
I'm not arguing against that fact.

I've been around 'here' for 9 years. I just keep out of this echo chamber for the most part. I'm sure you can see the AFLs dirty mits all over this balls-up then. There determination to micro-manage everything has been a big part of the problem (Liz Lukin etc).
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Yup, it is very much an echo chamber at times - on all "sides" of the various arguments!
 
un_eggs said:
This here is the problem. Your gnashing of teeth in tribal opposition to the EFC makes you blind to the fact that the players obviously didn't intend to cheat (good old consent forms are testament to this), and have harmed nobody. At worst they (and the EFC) have been misled by a dodgy sports scientist (and in your eyes, Hird) and let down by the failings and reassurances of the club. Where, amongst all that is it the player's fault for tarnishing our great game?
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Are you doing a show at the Melbourne International Comedy Festival because I seriously pissed myself laughing at the bolded text? However, to state that all this has harmed nobody is deeply disturbing. Your team had over twenty soft tissue injuries during that season and whilst Jon Mannah's cancer relapse and subsequent death cannot be linked directly to Dank, there is significant medical expert opinion to say it may have*.

Have you thought about teaming up with Peter Hellier and Tom Gleeson ?


* Being careful here even after a NSW jury stated they were happy to agree that "He (Dank) acted with reckless indifference to Mannah’s life by administering dangerous peptides to Mannah whilst Mannah was in the remissions stage of cancer. "
 
un_eggs said:
*sigh*

You are so invested in this psychologically that you have only paid attention to the information that solidifies your perspective. Your lack of understanding about natural justice is astounding... and so is your obsession with this whole saga. See, we can both play that game. Nighnighs Jenny.
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Obviously looking in the mirror and talking to yourself when posting this
 

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VL3OJ said:
Are you doing a show at the Melbourne International Comedy Festival because I seriously pissed myself laughing at the bolded text? However, to state that all this has harmed nobody is deeply disturbing. Your team had over twenty soft tissue injuries during that season and whilst Jon Mannah's cancer relapse and subsequent death cannot be linked directly to Dank, there is significant medical expert opinion to say it may have*.

Have you thought about teaming up with Peter Hellier and Tom Gleeson ?


* Being careful here even after a NSW jury stated they were happy to agree that "He (Dank) acted with reckless indifference to Mannah’s life by administering dangerous peptides to Mannah whilst Mannah was in the remissions stage of cancer. "
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The PLAYERS have harmed nobody. You, my friend, have the comedy gold here. And, as for you highlighting the consent forms part of my post, what exactly is your point there. It's hardly the action of a cheat to sign a consent form stating what it is they are going to cheat with, is it? Not very secretive.
 
The Filth said:
Obviously looking in the mirror and talking to yourself when posting this
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I rarely post about this topic. I'd rather move on. I think the evidence is in the number of posts, and time spent on this forum as to who is most heavily invested in this saga.
 
Disgusting that Bocky got off...Still don't think Hirdy and co are completely innocent? Something bad happened at Essendon that shouldn't have?hurting so much us Essendon fans and it's a bit of a kick in the guts that Bocky got off...
 
un_eggs said:
The PLAYERS have harmed nobody. You, my friend, have the comedy gold here. And, as for you highlighting the consent forms part of my post, what exactly is your point there. It's hardly the action of a cheat to sign a consent form stating what it is they are going to cheat with, is it? Not very secretive.
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Brett Ratten might care to argue the case. As an elite athlete, you are aware of the requirements and whilst I have sympathy with the first year players, the leadership group did nothing which makes them as complicit as the people who thought up this plan, to those injecting the players. The Essendon players in 2012 were the Festina of Football, the Armstrong of AFL, the Ben Johnston and Marion Jones of Jolimont as well as the Contador of Corrupting due process.

By not asking ASADA, they will always remain guilty and your once great club will be remembered for this and that is in part to the senior players.
 
un_eggs said:
This here is the problem. Your gnashing of teeth in tribal opposition to the EFC makes you blind to the fact that the players obviously didn't intend to cheat (good old consent forms are testament to this), and have harmed nobody. At worst they (and the EFC) have been misled by a dodgy sports scientist (and in your eyes, Hird) and let down by the failings and reassurances of the club. Where, amongst all that is it the player's fault for tarnishing our great game?
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So Cotchin and Mitchell haven't been hurt by losing earning capacity for four years of not being known as the proper and correct Brownlow medallists?
 
un_eggs said:
*sigh*

You are so invested in this psychologically that you have only paid attention to the information that solidifies your perspective. Your lack of understanding about natural justice is astounding... and so is your obsession with this whole saga. See, we can both play that game. Nighnighs Jenny.
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I actually enjoy seeing jenny61_99 so obsessive and strident, she's so blindly invested that she doesn't realise that half the posters on here are trolling, which is why they aren't responded to as often.
But jen's the real deal, sad really.
 
less than zero said:
I actually enjoy seeing jenny61_99 so obsessive and strident, she's so blindly invested that she doesn't realise that half the posters on here are trolling, which is why they aren't responded to as often.
But jen's the real deal, sad really.
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I kinda admire her unrelenting denial of her own obsession. It truly is a spectacle of great wonder.
 
un_eggs said:
This is one of the better examples of straw grasping I have ever seen.
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Earlier in the year it was stated that Jobe is going to miss out on $1 million this year due to his sponsorships due to being a Brownlow medallist so it is fair to say that Mitchell and Cotchin have missed out on an extra $4 million due to an ineligible person currently holding their Brownlow medal
 
un_eggs said:
I kinda admire her unrelenting denial of her own obsession. It truly is a spectacle of great wonder.
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I'm obsessed with wanting the sport I love to be clean. I'm absolutely gobsmacked that a club (doesn't matter which one) was so keen to win at any cost, that it allowed their players to be used as ****ing experimental pin cushions by a pseudo sports scientist (and I use that term lightly) with off label, experimental and prohibited substances. I'm disappointed that the players chose not to use their minds, and in the end, contributed to their own downfall by not asking enough questions of the right people and not being honest with ASADA testers. I detest the AFL for trying to manage the situation without an ounce of integrity. I love how you lot make a big deal of me being in here. It is hilarious. But my intentions are genuine. I care for this sport. I care for the players. I couldn't give a rats toss bag about your club or the idiots who run it (or some of the naive fools who follow it). And I'm STILL here, like everyone else, because the damned thing just won't go away.
 

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jenny61_99 said:
I'm obsessed with wanting the sport I love to be clean. I'm absolutely gobsmacked that a club (doesn't matter which one) was so keen to win at any cost, that it allowed their players to be used as ******* experimental pin cushions by a pseudo sports scientist (and I use that term lightly) with off label, experimental and prohibited substances. I'm disappointed that the players chose not to use their minds, and in the end, contributed to their own downfall by not asking enough questions of the right people and not being honest with ASADA testers. I detest the AFL for trying to manage the situation without an ounce of integrity. I love how you lot make a big deal of me being in here. It is hilarious. But my intentions are genuine. I care for this sport. I care for the players. I couldn't give a rats toss bag about your club or the idiots who run it (or some of the naive fools who follow it). And I'm STILL here, like everyone else, because the damned thing just won't go away.
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Yeah Jenny, I get it, you're pissed with my club.

But, the thing is, the HTB seems to be filled with those who believe the club, players, and supporters deserve to be punished indefinitely. Many of you find it incredible that we remain loyal to the players. It's not that surprising when they have no positive tests, have been assassinated in the media, been denied privacy, denied the right to be considered innocent until any proof of guilt, and are forced to sit out a year even after missing a finals series they'd earned and had 3 years of non-convicted punishment for their 'evil' doings. Even if they were given TB4, it is not a PED, and would in all likelyhood be a more ethical injection to have than having local anaesthetic seeing as it helps injury repair whereas LA causes further injury. For this reason we scratch our heads at the demonising rhetoric against these young men. I don't see cheats. I see young men who need our... support...

The club on the other hand has been punished for their sins (is it now collapse of the club that foamers are after?) and are trying to move on and rebuild. There's nothing wrong with that either.
 
Club has not been punished for drug cheating.
Like any crim, this record will be with you for life. Footy fans will remember this indefinitely.
Please go read CAS report where it shows that your club deliberately cheated and then try to cover it up.
Stop the no positive test bull, Benny never gave up a positive. Means nothing.
The only rights that have been denied is that of the honest footballer plying his trade.
 
un_eggs said:
Even if they were given TB4, it is not a PED, and would in all likelyhood be a more ethical injection to have than having local anaesthetic seeing as it helps injury repair whereas LA causes further injury.
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Are you serious? Dank has admitted under oath that he injected CJC and GHRP into the Cronulla players. He believed the substances were permitted. This was shown clearly in the text messages with Robinson that were shown in court.

He told my friend he was injecting GHRP into the Essendon players and told him the same story - that it is a permitted substance.

ASADA and WADA knows this. They just didn't have enough evidence to prove it. At the same time they found the opportunity to get a guilty verdict for the use of TB4. Maybe it is not as powerful as the other substances mentioned but it is still banned. This is why they went after them for TB4.

I don't think the players knew the substances were banned. I'd be surprised if Dank told them what he was giving them. However, that is no excuse and you are still guilty even if you don't know what's in the injections. Look at Ahmed Saad. One drink and he got 18 months. Nobody went out of their way to sympathise with him. Yet the players who kept fronting up for injections get a lot more sympathy.

To say it is not a PED is naive to say the least. Stacking with AOD and god knows what else and you can get a pretty potent combination. Anabolic steroids help injury repair too. Does that make them ok?
 
un_eggs said:
Yeah Jenny, I get it, you're pissed with my club.

But, the thing is, the HTB seems to be filled with those who believe the club, players, and supporters deserve to be punished indefinitely. Many of you find it incredible that we remain loyal to the players. It's not that surprising when they have no positive tests, have been assassinated in the media, been denied privacy, denied the right to be considered innocent until any proof of guilt, and are forced to sit out a year even after missing a finals series they'd earned and had 3 years of non-convicted punishment for their 'evil' doings. Even if they were given TB4, it is not a PED, and would in all likelyhood be a more ethical injection to have than having local anaesthetic seeing as it helps injury repair whereas LA causes further injury. For this reason we scratch our heads at the demonising rhetoric against these young men. I don't see cheats. I see young men who need our... support...

The club on the other hand has been punished for their sins (is it now collapse of the club that foamers are after?) and are trying to move on and rebuild. There's nothing wrong with that either.
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You are tarring us all with the same brush. We don't all want to see the demise of your club. Yes there are some, but they aren't in the majority. The club has been punished for poor governance, that lead to the doping of your players. I agree, they've been punished enough - the only things I'd like to see is the final few that were there when it went down, need to be cleaned out. And the other thing is that you not be given a low pick at the end of this season, rather take your pick at the end of round one. You may be shit this year, but you gain players back. By giving you a high pick is like rewarding the choices you've made and that's wrong IMO.

Your argument that TB4 isn't a PED is patently wrong. It is prohibited because it provides a benefit that those not taking it cannot get - in other words, it enhances performance. Because it enhances performance, it gave your players an advantage over other players that weren't using it. Deliberate cheats, or cheats due to lack of due diligence matters not. Intent is not in question here. Players are being supported ridiculously IMO. They breached rules, they need to wear the punishment. They are still being paid, training together and get to come back at the end. The sort of support they'll need is when some random illness crops up in the future and they'll always wonder "what if?"
 
Perhaps we get back to talking about Bock rather than being rail roaded
 
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Ancient Tiger said:
Are you serious? Dank has admitted under oath that he injected CJC and GHRP into the Cronulla players. He believed the substances were permitted. This was shown clearly in the text messages with Robinson that were shown in court.

He told my friend he was injecting GHRP into the Essendon players and told him the same story - that it is a permitted substance.

ASADA and WADA knows this. They just didn't have enough evidence to prove it. At the same time they found the opportunity to get a guilty verdict for the use of TB4. Maybe it is not as powerful as the other substances mentioned but it is still banned. This is why they went after them for TB4.

I don't think the players knew the substances were banned. I'd be surprised if Dank told them what he was giving them. However, that is no excuse and you are still guilty even if you don't know what's in the injections. Look at Ahmed Saad. One drink and he got 18 months. Nobody went out of their way to sympathise with him. Yet the players who kept fronting up for injections get a lot more sympathy.

To say it is not a PED is naive to say the least. Stacking with AOD and god knows what else and you can get a pretty potent combination. Anabolic steroids help injury repair too. Does that make them ok?
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TB4 doesn't make them perform better than anyone else who's Fit and able from what I have read. What it is supposed to do is enable the athlete to return to playing more quickly or recover for the next game. There are so many drugs/supplements that aim to do the same and are not deemed performance enhancing. I think many are judging them as if they did take anabolic steroids which is a long way from the truth. Your comparison certainly doesn't help that.

I have enormous sympathy for Saad. The penalty was way over the top like everything else in this saga. It basically ruined his career and thus was way more than an 18 mth penalty. I am also sympathetic to the Collingwood lads. You can't afford to have a year out of footy these days, especially if you're still conditioning a young body or near the end of a career. I'm hoping players like Heppell and Hurley have enough kegs in their legs to have a seamless return.
 
VL3OJ said:
I personally do not want to see the demise of Essendon or long term damage un_eggs, few of us do, however for the code to remain strong, any further attempts at doping by any club must know they are in for a torrid time when caught. No Essendon fan wanted this however the players were well and truly complicit.

Essendon's best ploy is to admit, remove all vestiges of 2012 (players excluded) and reboot the club. Until then, the cancer will just eat away.

Australian Rules needs to be stronger after this, sadly this is clearly not the case.
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You seriously think the club has not admitted fault and done a massive reboot??

I agree that the board members from that era should be gone. As it is the processes of re-election have done that to a large extent. That really singles out Chris Heffernan and Paul Brasher as the last remaining. Other than that only Doc Reid remains. So I think your call to remove all vestiges is practically a done deal once the Doc retires. Unless you would prefer to get the pitchfork out and run him out of town first.
 
un_eggs said:
TB4 doesn't make them perform better than anyone else who's Fit and able from what I have read. What it is supposed to do is enable the athlete to return to playing more quickly or recover for the next game. There are so many drugs/supplements that aim to do the same and are not deemed performance enhancing. I think many are judging them as if they did take anabolic steroids which is a long way from the truth. Your comparison certainly doesn't help that.

I have enormous sympathy for Saad. The penalty was way over the top like everything else in this saga. It basically ruined his career and thus was way more than an 18 mth penalty. I am also sympathetic to the Collingwood lads. You can't afford to have a year out of footy these days, especially if you're still conditioning a young body or near the end of a career. I'm hoping players like Heppell and Hurley have enough kegs in their legs to have a seamless return.
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