Comprehension isn't your strong point, often seen with font driven posts.
You bagged Eade, and I asked where the player's responsibility fits in. Try again.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 6 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
NEW COACH= New Game Plan
- Thread starter Snagboy
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Comprehension isn't your strong point, often seen with font driven posts.
You bagged Eade, and I asked where the player's responsibility fits in. Try again.
And didn't they all play well on Sunday, especially the senior players?
Snagboy, I did read your opening post.
Over the last four or five years, Eade has attempted to turn our fleet footed team that has bulked up over the years into a more accountable and defensive minded outfit. His first couple of years involved all out attack, making the most of the players at his disposal. He taught them how to move the ball quickly, with confidence.
Over time, he tried to keep aspects of this game plan while putting together a consistent and tight back six which he has achieved, and tried to place an emphasis on midfield pressure and accountability. The second point has been evident when we've played at our best. However, when this area lapses, our defense is innundated with clean ball and we look as if we're trying to play catch up all over the ground.
Due to injuries and form issues last year, he tried to implement a more traditional game plan that saw us utilise a class KPF in Hall but, whether it be because of a change in peronell up forward through losing Higgins, Akermanis, Johnson and Hahn to form and injury, or through our midfielders unwillingness to trust lesser likes within the forward line with the ball we became too Hall conscious.
In 2010, we also attempted to adapt to negative tactics by using the ball by foot laterally and short, with less open field play. Sometimes we succeeded in drawing the defense out, but a lot of the time we were caught not getting back quickly enough once the ball was turned over.
I was overseas during the NAB games, and only saw the first two against the Cats and the Kangaroos. So, after only round one and with a fair portion of our back six out I can't be sure what type of style he's attempting to implement to counter the forward press. What I would suggest though, is that it takes a long time to perfect scoring from the boundary line, which is where we seemed to go a lot on the weekend when bringing the ball out of defense. Take Collingwood for instance, they spent three years trying to score from wide positions, but got better at it and when they finally implemented the forward press last year they were in a position of advantage because they had a number of years practice compared to other teams when it came from scoring from those areas of the ground.
If I was to hazard a guess, I'd think that Eade would still be looking towards the middle of the ground to find the most effective means of quick transition. Two or three times on the weekend, coming out of defense we went central and scored. That was with a back six that lacked key personnel and only had Murphy as an experienced player that could be counted on to attempt to run through that area. As soon as we get Gilbee, Lake and Hargrave back we'll be in a better position to do this, using Grant as a short hit up target between CHF and the centre circle.
Over the last four or five years, Eade has attempted to turn our fleet footed team that has bulked up over the years into a more accountable and defensive minded outfit. His first couple of years involved all out attack, making the most of the players at his disposal. He taught them how to move the ball quickly, with confidence.
Over time, he tried to keep aspects of this game plan while putting together a consistent and tight back six which he has achieved, and tried to place an emphasis on midfield pressure and accountability. The second point has been evident when we've played at our best. However, when this area lapses, our defense is innundated with clean ball and we look as if we're trying to play catch up all over the ground.
Due to injuries and form issues last year, he tried to implement a more traditional game plan that saw us utilise a class KPF in Hall but, whether it be because of a change in peronell up forward through losing Higgins, Akermanis, Johnson and Hahn to form and injury, or through our midfielders unwillingness to trust lesser likes within the forward line with the ball we became too Hall conscious.
In 2010, we also attempted to adapt to negative tactics by using the ball by foot laterally and short, with less open field play. Sometimes we succeeded in drawing the defense out, but a lot of the time we were caught not getting back quickly enough once the ball was turned over.
I was overseas during the NAB games, and only saw the first two against the Cats and the Kangaroos. So, after only round one and with a fair portion of our back six out I can't be sure what type of style he's attempting to implement to counter the forward press. What I would suggest though, is that it takes a long time to perfect scoring from the boundary line, which is where we seemed to go a lot on the weekend when bringing the ball out of defense. Take Collingwood for instance, they spent three years trying to score from wide positions, but got better at it and when they finally implemented the forward press last year they were in a position of advantage because they had a number of years practice compared to other teams when it came from scoring from those areas of the ground.
If I was to hazard a guess, I'd think that Eade would still be looking towards the middle of the ground to find the most effective means of quick transition. Two or three times on the weekend, coming out of defense we went central and scored. That was with a back six that lacked key personnel and only had Murphy as an experienced player that could be counted on to attempt to run through that area. As soon as we get Gilbee, Lake and Hargrave back we'll be in a better position to do this, using Grant as a short hit up target between CHF and the centre circle.
- Thread starter
- #54
Sadly, you have missed the point, maybe its the fonts, suggest you get someone to read the original post to you, if you cannot understand it.
Other posters have had no trouble comprehending it.
In relation to the players, they are there to follow the coaches instructions, and after listening to Eade's press conference he made no reference to our players not following the game plan, we all know that a lot the players underperformed. I don't know if you were at the game,
however the positioning of the players, during the course of the game rarely changed except for placing a loose man in the back line 5 minutes before quarter time & moving Hall to the forward pocket during the 3rd & last quarters, and putting smaller players around goals.
Hopefully this helps you.
Now perhaps you could outline what you believe our game plan is for 2011?
Cheers
- Thread starter
- #55
Hi Jeemak,
I do agree with most of your post, however, as I previously stated:
"If we are to compete & win on a regular basis in 2011 we must either have a game plan to combat this style of play or adopt a similar one. More teams in the competition are attempting to play this type of football." & I am of the view we haven't got either.
Further, St. Kilda, under Ross Lyon has been employing this style since late 2008 and we are yet to beat them over this period in the H & W & finals series.
As I said previously, I hope I'm proved comprehensively wrong!!!
Cheers
In fairness to Dry Rot no-one should really have to read that crap more than once.
As for the alleged lack or change of game plan, in 2008 we played some pretty good footy, and were undefeated for a fair bit of the season and were the 2nd highest point scoring team, but while credible against Geelong in the prelim, we were not quite strong enough at the business end of the season.
In 2009 we added some physicality in the contests while still managing to be the highest scoring team. We played one poor quarter in our last 5 games (1st against Geelong in 1st semi) and just lost to St Kilda in the prelim where were won the contests and had more scoring shots. Nothing in a game plan, however, can protect you from missed shots on goal and appalling umpiring, and most fans, particularly on this board, consider us extremely unlucky not to have been in the GF.
In 2010 we added focus on our defence but our season was essentially ruined by injury and illness, particularly in the finals.
There is no way any reasoned argument on the current game plan can be based first game of the season. Yes, we were outplayed, yes, we lost BUT IT WAS ROUND 1 !!!!!!!!!!! (just make it easier for you to comprehend, Snagboy)
As for James Cunning, others have responded to most of your diatribe but I will respond to your attack on Eade's playing record. Yes, one might be lucky to get on an AFL list and one might be lucky to get a senior game, or even lucky to get a grand final, but only very good footballers play over 250 senior games and play in 4 premierships.
What you must realise is that VFL/AFL footy is a different game to the one you played from the bench for the under 12 Bs (where you probably considered yourself unlucky not to get in the run on team).
As for the alleged lack or change of game plan, in 2008 we played some pretty good footy, and were undefeated for a fair bit of the season and were the 2nd highest point scoring team, but while credible against Geelong in the prelim, we were not quite strong enough at the business end of the season.
In 2009 we added some physicality in the contests while still managing to be the highest scoring team. We played one poor quarter in our last 5 games (1st against Geelong in 1st semi) and just lost to St Kilda in the prelim where were won the contests and had more scoring shots. Nothing in a game plan, however, can protect you from missed shots on goal and appalling umpiring, and most fans, particularly on this board, consider us extremely unlucky not to have been in the GF.
In 2010 we added focus on our defence but our season was essentially ruined by injury and illness, particularly in the finals.
There is no way any reasoned argument on the current game plan can be based first game of the season. Yes, we were outplayed, yes, we lost BUT IT WAS ROUND 1 !!!!!!!!!!! (just make it easier for you to comprehend, Snagboy)
As for James Cunning, others have responded to most of your diatribe but I will respond to your attack on Eade's playing record. Yes, one might be lucky to get on an AFL list and one might be lucky to get a senior game, or even lucky to get a grand final, but only very good footballers play over 250 senior games and play in 4 premierships.
What you must realise is that VFL/AFL footy is a different game to the one you played from the bench for the under 12 Bs (where you probably considered yourself unlucky not to get in the run on team).
- Thread starter
- #57
Hi Walrus,
Thanks for the post,
Firstly,
I never attacked Eade's playing record or what he did with Sydney or our running game up to 2007 it is simply as I said in the original post
"Essendon have been well drilled in playing a similar style to St. Kilda & Collingwood ect...If we are to compete & win on a regular basis in 2011 we must either have a game plan to combat this style of play or adopt a similar one. More teams in the competition are attempting to play this type of football."
As I stated before there have been subtle changes to our game plan - however nothing to compete against this style of play.
If you want to attack me (as per your last paragraph) when you have NO knowledge of what I have done regarding Footy, then your post loses
credibility.
Cheers
Employing the Collingwood type of game style is the last thing we should do. We aren't going to score from wide positions like they did last year, I really can't see anyone beating Collingwood at their own game.
As I said, it's too early to tell if we've developed a game plan to counter Collingwood's, or the forward press in general. I can be sure however, that getting smashed in the middle and gift wrapping significant amount of free ball to your opponents is the worst way to combat the offensive press.
Providing a contest in the middle of the ground and at stoppages will be the key to any successful game plan this year.
- Thread starter
- #59
Hi Jeemak,
I am not saying that our game plan should be exactly the same as Collingwood, St. Kilda or Essendon, i.e. Essendon when it got clear went down the middle, collingwood predominately go down the flanks.
Its the numbers that are put around the ball when it is in dispute & the extra players they put in there forward half when we are kicking out
after a point is scored.
They win out with numbers, if one of our players got the ball first they were gang tackled & virtually had no chance to give it to a teamate in a better position.- On Sunday Essendon got a lot of goals from turnovers
due to us not having an option.
We need to provide a contest all round the ground & have the same numbers that they do..
Cheers
gimp!
Standus Operatus
- Feb 20, 2010
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Oh why hello Snagboy,
I was referring to the one that you were indeed referring to. Last week against Essendon. You were using that game to make your point. It would only seem logical that I would too refer to that. I wouldn't dare refer to the last few seasons, the ones in which preliminary finals were made. Game plan most certainly had nothing to do with losing any of those games.
If you have any further queries, please, HESITATE TO ASK.
Regards,
me.
- Thread starter
- #63
If you bothered to read all the posts I have made on this thread, you will note that I have made reference to other games, the Essendon game was just the one example mentioned along with Collingwood & St. Kilda games.
Fortunately, I do not have to ask you anything about Football.
PS: I sure hope you know more about your - Black ops video game than Footy
Cheers
James Cuming
Senior List
What you are missing is that I gave Nahas as an example amongst others such as Michael Barlow, James Podsiadly and Geff Garlett of players who we could have picked up from the draft instead of holding onto players who will never make it to A or B grade status. It is up to Eade to make a quick and accurate assessment of a players ability and turn them over if they will not make it. It is the life-blood of the club and Eade is too slow in this.
There is no argument regarding Sherman and Nahas, its just that we could have gotten Nahas for free, likewise Barlow etc.
This is crazy its such a stretch, You're basically blaming Eade for Cooney getting hurt, its ludicrous. What else is Eade guilty of? Maybe we draft Barlow he steps on Cooney's hand, he breaks his wrist
You missed the point. I don't think that I'm drawing a long bow. Here it is again - poor decision making by Eade cost us recruitment of better players and improvement of current players. With better decision making the matchday situation would therefore be much better with a better team and more wins and, for example, the injury to Cooney, that I believe was due to overstretching himself would therefore not have happened. Understand that the point here is not Cooney's injury but lost opportunities and fewer options due to bad coaching decisions.
I am well aware that at the end of 2009 Brad Johnson had a good season. I am also aware that in his last few games his field kicking and run went off course and his injuries had caught up with him so much that he was hobbling about like an old man. I am also aware of what generally happens when a footballer gets older, they start getting ever more frequent injuries, particularly leg injuries, and they take longer to get over them. At the end of 2009 I declared that he should have retired, it wasn't hindsight. Eade should have seen this also.
This was however "At long 'bloody' last!" Took Eade weeks to act. We were all pulling our hair out. This is just an example though, one of many.
He inherited a side that had a good finish to 1995, a poor start to 1996 then finishing on top of the ladder and then losing the grand final. I just do not subscribe to the fact that if you win the most number of games then you are a good coach. Maybe the players were very good and he should have won by more. The phrase "He takes a team to the Grand Final", can only be used if his own performance as coach improved them to a position greater than they may otherwise have been.
Did he take an ordinary team into the finals in subsequent years or didn't he go far enough in the finals with a good team. My take on it is that although umpires gave Sydney one hell of a ride during those years, Eade should have taken the team further.
The fact that he lost the grand final with a team full of all-Australians and in subsequent years went downhill with the Swans and journalists say that he should have won a grand final and also experiencing his ineptitude here at the Bulldogs leads me to the conclusion that its not, "He took them there", but rather, "He screwed it up".
I do not have a personal agenda against Eade, but I do I have a burning love for the Bulldogs. I like to see things how they are with some analysis involved. You have to get away from the hype and people pissing in each other's pockets. I want the club to strive for excellence in everything they do. Mediocrity has to be jumped on and wiped out.
I don't see where I have made a snide remark against Eade. Maybe it was that comment that I made regarding Eade not being a champion himself, I suppose that was really an irrelevant comment for which I now apologise. I don't see where the 4 flags he has played in are relevant.
What was your take on Eade going into last Sunday's match with only one ruckman? Do you think that it was a smart move? What about the composition of the rest of the team? How do you think that Roughead is tracking? This is only week one, we have put up with this nonsense for the last 3 years.
Should a coach who is going to "Take us into a grand final", have made such selections?
I don't expect that Eade would be sacked after round 1, if Smorgan hasn't done anything by now then he never will. I expect that Smorgan should put measures in place to improve the performance of the match committee.
gimp!
Standus Operatus
- Feb 20, 2010
- 5,608
- 4,897
- AFL Club
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Hi again Snagboy,
I am quite confident that I understand football better than the likes of yourself. The fact that you make this thread after the Essendon loss indicates to us that you can't comprehend the many reasons that may have contributed to the bulldogs losing on the weekend. I am also not one of these reactionary posters who make ridiculous threads after a loss, which are quite frankly, embarrassing (for you). It's the likes of you that go missing for that period when we win 5 games in a row, and then come back the next week and bag everything again.
Nice to know you took the time to look up my post history. I don't respect you enough to look at yours. If you weren't sitting on your recliner with your glasses and dressing gown on right now, I would invite you to play some.
Many thanks.
- Thread starter
- #66
Your back again Stupid Gimp,
I pleased to see your confident about your football knowledge over mine
sadly your wrong again.. apparently though your very good with your joystick
I had no need to read your previous posts or history it is obvious your a video game man & good luck to you...& no there not for me
You obviously have no idea of what I have posted in the past, by your own admission, so your comments & observations are grossly wrong & irrelevant.
I will be there on Sunday, you probably won't be, why would you want to interrupt your video game experience.
Please HESITATE to REPLY
Perhaps you should re-read my post but maybe Dry Rot is right and comprehension is not your strong point. I based my response to your criticism of the game plan employed by Eade over the last 4 years. I particularly referred to 2009 where we came within a whisker of playing in the GF, to refute the your argument on the absence of an effective game plan.
My final criticism of you was in response to your over use of exclamation marks and capitals which really do nothing to substantiate or enhance an argument.
My parting comments, to which you took umbrage, were not aimed at you but at James Cunning for his ludicrous and denigrating attack on Eade's playing record.
It seems whenever we lose, and from memory all post WWII premiers have (and some with bigger losses than our Rd 1 loss), so many posters focus on the negatives and seem to relish the opportunity vent their ill informed bile on the rest of us. It just becomes so tiresome and, unfortunately, predictable.
- Thread starter
- #68
Hi Walrus,
I take your point in relation to negative posts, however, 95% of my posts are positive. Claiming the use of exclamation marks & capitals affects/effects the comprehenion of the tread is absurd. Others seemed to have no problem. Its just a cheap shot - and I accept that.
There has been a recurring theme of excuses for performances of which I have been guilty on many occasions, over many years.
Yes, I agree in 2009 we came within a whisker but we didn't win, nor did we win when played them any time in the last two years. (save for NAB cup.)
If your replying to someone else on this thread then reply to them not me.
You are probably as passionate as myself; I am paid up member & go to training twice a week, go to every game in Victoria & have followed the dogs for over 50 years.
No matter who runs out for us on game day if they have the red, white & blue on I am 100% behind them.
Many people believe we have the personnel to win a flag, I am one of them. I knew I would come in for criticism after making these comments in Round 1, and I can tell you now that we will win the next two games, and I will be happy on the day. However the problem as i have stated before is that we have proven we cannot WIN against the game style played by the teams I previously mentioned.
In closing, no one would be happier than me if i am proven completely wrong.
Cheers & GO Doggies
Snagboy, your second post in this thread albeit in response to one that was a bit short and terse was condescending, to say the least.
Subsequent posts gave the impression that due to your age and some experience watching a couple of pre modern football games you thought your knowledge was greater than those responding to you.
I don't doubt your intentions in this thread are genuine, but you might benefit from not getting your back up and being so defensive.
Subsequent posts gave the impression that due to your age and some experience watching a couple of pre modern football games you thought your knowledge was greater than those responding to you.
I don't doubt your intentions in this thread are genuine, but you might benefit from not getting your back up and being so defensive.
Fontboy,
Yep, I can just see Eade and the line coaches instructing the players before and during the game:
Telling the forwards that all that talk about defensive pressure was wink wink all talk, let the ball just ping straight out so we don't have a dour game like Friday night;
Telling the mids to show the Bombers mids no respect, don't man up or tackle and not to try even harder in the clearances given we have only one ruckman; and
Telling the defenders hey we're going to stress test you because no-one up the field has been instructed to do their job and even better, you'll have no-one to kick to.
Yep, they all carried out Eade's instructions to the letter....
**** knows, when the players NB most of the senior players play like that.
OK, you're under siege right now, I'll stop asking questions.
Apart from this one. What are your thoughts on the game plan we employ, where it should go, and how Eade should implement it? You know your football, I'll give you that, but you seem to talk about doing things other teams can do with their players, rather than what we can do with ours.
An answer taking into account the cattle we have at our disposal would be helpful.
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